moderated window or mac


meow meow
 

 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


crayton Benner
 

Really it’s your choice.. It depends on what you want. It’s not a matter of what’s better, it’s what you want. 

On Oct 9, 2021, at 17:19, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:

 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.
They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.



Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." -- Jane Wagner 
  




website:  www.turner42.com

(Sent with my blue iPhone 13 Pro)

On Oct 9, 2021, at 2:21 PM, crayton Benner <craybay3198@...> wrote:

 Really it’s your choice.. It depends on what you want. It’s not a matter of what’s better, it’s what you want. 

On Oct 9, 2021, at 17:19, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:

 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


Jim Weiss <jimweiss72@...>
 

It all depends on your needs, wants and finances. When I went blind I bought my first Mac, I had used Windows for nearly 20 years at that point in time. You will have to pry my Mac out of my dead cold hands, I currently on a Windows machine and I hate it.


On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:19 PM, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:


 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.
They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.
-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


meow meow
 

well my concern is window always update  and get new computer and paying more for Jaws
 
and mac don't to paying voiceover or get new computer more often
right?
what I want to use computer just formemail and website that it or yeah and  files  
 thanks

Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: window or mac

It all depends on your needs, wants and finances. When I went blind I bought my first Mac, I had used Windows for nearly 20 years at that point in time. You will have to pry my Mac out of my dead cold hands, I currently on a Windows machine and I hate it.


On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:19 PM, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:


 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


 

1. You don't need to use JAWS.  If the expense of JAWS is a concern to you, then consider both NVDA and Narrator.

2.  Apple hardware, all of it, whether computers or smartphones, is significantly more expensive than Windows hardware in the same class.

3.  Windows Updates have been, as a general rule, a non-issue.  And with the advent of Windows 11 feature updates are to occur only once per year rather than the current twice per year under Windows 10.  And, to be honest, I think that policy will end up being back ported to Windows 10.

4.  Hardware ages at about the same rate of speed no matter what the operating system.  You don't necessarily get longer life out of Apple computers than Windows computers.  The problem is, that even the cheapest Apple (which isn't cheap by a long shot) is much more expensive than the entry-level crap available in the PC world.  But people try to compare entry level PC hardware, which is generally awful, with entry level Macs, and the two are not even vaguely of the same class of hardware.  And when the hardware itself is comparable, the price of PCs in the same class is generally quite a bit lower.

5. Your self-described intended uses do not require a high-end PC or Mac.  Basic emailing, web browsing, streaming, and using office suite programs will work just fine on a mid-grade PC.  Buying a high-end PC for such use is a colossal waste of money.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


JM Casey
 

Windows updates dont’ occur that frequently and theyr’e usually painless.

From what you described, your needs are pretty minimal. Granted, I avoid all Apple products, but speaking as objectively as I can, you could definitely get away with a cheap PC and be fine for several years. People sell decent computers all the time; look around local markets. The laptop I paid $200 for runs Windows 10 just fine, and has plenty of ports for plugging in peripherals. It even has a CD/dvd drive/burner.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of meow meow
Sent: October 9, 2021 06:40 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

well my concern is window always update  and get new computer and paying more for Jaws

 

and mac don't to paying voiceover or get new computer more often

right?

what I want to use computer just formemail and website that it or yeah and  files  

 thanks

Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: window or mac

 

It all depends on your needs, wants and finances. When I went blind I bought my first Mac, I had used Windows for nearly 20 years at that point in time. You will have to pry my Mac out of my dead cold hands, I currently on a Windows machine and I hate it.



On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:19 PM, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:



 

 

hi Rosie here...

I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?

thanks

 


Judy
 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


 

Judy,

I will allow others who may be using MacOS and iOS to comment in detail, but the differences between any smartphone/tablet OS, and any desktop/laptop OS, is vast.

iOS skills do not, in my observation and experience, intuitively (or anything to it) transfer over to MacOS and vice versa.  The ecosystems are significantly different because the entire design idioms of a touch based OS and a mouse or keyboard based OS are just not the same.  [This was equally true for Windows and the Windows Phone, when the latter and Windows Mobile OS still existed.]

iOS and MacOS cannot be described, in any meaningful way, as "the same OS."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


Michael Hunsaker
 

The screen readers are very different for Mac OS relative to both JAWS and NVDA.  Even very different from iOS VoiceOver. 

Ryan



On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 15:19 meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:
 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 

--
Michael Ryan Hunsaker, M.Ed., Ph.D. (he/him)
NLS-LOC Certified UEB Transcriber
Teacher for Students with Visual Impairments
Davis School District
 CONTACT
I will reply to communication between the hours of 7:15-15:00pm MST

Voice/Text
Office +1 (801) 402-5955
Google Voice +1 (385) 645-7021
(text message or call and leave a voicemail, and I will return your call ASAP)
Email ryhunsaker@...
 Mailing Addresses
(Primary)
Davis High School
325 South Main St
Kaysville, UT 84037

(Secondary)
Fairfield Jr. High
951 Fairfield Rd
Kaysville, UT 84037

——————————————————————————
FERPA/HIPPA CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT
Please keep in mind that communications via email over the internet are not secure. Although it is unlikely, there is a possibility that information you include in an email can be intercepted and read by other parties besides the person to whom it is addressed.
The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.


Mich Verrier
 

Hi Judy. As far as I can remember from using peoples max over the years it is different than using the iPhone because of the keystrokes and because there’s a lot more interaction need to do with the elements on the screen where as with windows Joyce generally takes care of all that and you don’t have to interact as much as you do on the mat and for that matter even on iOS devices there’s not as much interaction with different elements on the screen at least that’s been my experience Brian and others might have different experiences I’ve only tried the Mac on from different people that I’ve known over the years have let me use their MacBook some things and that’s been my experience. from Mich


On Oct 9, 2021, at 9:05 PM, Judy <bunchkinbear@...> wrote:



Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


Jim Weiss <jimweiss72@...>
 

Judy,
I use a Mac every day and have since 2012 (when I first went blind).  Typically I use keyboard shortcuts as a way of controlling my Mac but you can use the trackpad just as you would an iPhone.  For example with track pad commander turned on a single finger swipe to the left moves you to the left and likewise a single finger single tap selects the item.  Pretty much every finger gesture that you perform on an iPhone translates exactly on the Mac. 
Like I said I usually use the keyboard shortcuts and only use the track pad when the keyboard shortcut is not working as it should.  For example when trying to click a button and nothing happens I will fall back to the track pad, find and select the button and single finger double tap.  It doesn’t always work, but often it does, thus I don’t need to find sighted assistance.
A huge difference in MacOS is the use of the “Command” key, it is the key immediately to either side of the space bar.  A few examples are below.
To close an open window = CMD+W
To copy a selection = CMD+C
To paste from the clipboard = CMD+V
To underline a word in a text editor = CMD+U
To bold a word in a text editor = CMD+B
To create a new document in a text editor = CMD+N
To open an existing document = CMD+O
To print a document = CMD+P
To create a new folder in Finder (the Mac version of File Explorer) = CMD+Shift+N
There is still the concept of the menu bar in MacOS and you always use VO key+M to access it.
And to access the equivalent of the system tray you use VO key+MM.


If you are familiar with the rotor on the iPhone the same principle exists in MacOS.  Just like JAWS you assign either Control+Option (they are next to each other on the keyboard) or Caps Lock as your Voice Over (VO) key.  So if you are on a webpage and you want to list all of the headings you issue a VO key+U to invoke the rotor.  Like the iPhone you can decide what elements are in your rotor, such as Links, Visited Links, Headings, Form Controls, etc. and from the rotor you can quickly move about the page.  You can also use the H key to move by headings (and other keys) just like JAWS.
You can quickly change the verbosity, speaking rate, speaking pitch and even the voice without digging into the settings.
Sure there is a learning curve, but that is true of anything.  Here are the main reasons I jumped onto the Mac bandwagon when I went blind.
At the time my laptop was quite old and was due to be replaced so I knew that was an expense that could not be avoided.  There was no such thing as the JAWS Home Annual Subscription so I needed to buy JAWS and a SMA and I wanted something for word processing and spreadsheets and I was intimately familiar with Office.  When I added it all up I was looking at a bit over $2,000.  I then looked at the Mac and for $1,300 I got a new laptop, a screen reader and at the time iWords (Pages, Numbers and Keynote - the Mac equivalent to Office) was $20.  Now the software is free.  For me it was a no brainer at the time.  I knew that I needed to learn a screen reader anyhow and over the course of my life I had touched a few Macs from time to time.  Another huge factor for me was there was only one person to blame when something didn’t work right.  I am running Apple’s OS on Apple’s hardware and using Apple’s screen reader, if there is a problem the one thing that they can not do is blame a third party.  We have all been in the boat when Freedom Scientific blames Microsoft and then Microsoft turns around and puts the blame on a piece of hardware in your machine or the driver associated with that piece of hardware.  Apple can not do that, every piece of the equation is Apple.
Now the Mac is not perfect, but nothing is.  There are times that Safari just doesn’t cut it and I need to use another browser.  At the moment I have MS Edge also installed for a Chromium based browser solution.  Google Chrome and Brave, along with other browsers, work just fine on the Mac.  If you absolutely require MS Office do NOT go Mac.  Office 365 on the Mac is the most accessible version of Office for the Mac it can not touch Office on a Window based machine.  For that reason only I run Windows as a VM on my Mac.  I need to use Windows at work but have the luxury of being able to bring my own Mac to the office.  I spend 95% of my day on the Mac side of the world, and when I need to use Word or Excel I jump over to my Win 10 VM and do what I need to do.  For me this arrangement works perfectly.
If you want to talk more about the Mac please email me directly at jimweiss72@....
Regards

Jim Weiss



On Oct 9, 2021, at 9:05 PM, Judy <bunchkinbear@...> wrote:

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  
It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.
    ~ William Plumber



Leo
 

HI, Windows 11 and Big Sur user here! My piece of advice, if you like to learn new things, just take the plunge, the learning curve was not Herculean labor for me because in trying new gadgets and apps, I am Indiana Jones, lol.  Bear in mind that you will be facing not only new commands but also a new concept on how to understand an ecosystem. You will know in a day or two  if you made the right choice because either you will dream about yourself sitting in front of your Mac or you will go psychotic. Drawing on my own experience, I can tell you that personally the only case I wouldn’t recommend a Mac computer to a Windows PC user is if the person is a heavy user of Microsoft Word. Let’s just say that text-processing is the downside for screen reader users in Mac, at least when it comes to be productive. Not that pages is not accessible, oh pages is so beautiful and accessible, but you don’t want to export every single document into a word document because it is time-consuming. Besides, most of the format will be lost, and using MS Word in Mac is like traveling to Colonial Williamsburg in a tripod.

 

 

Best,

     Leo Bado.

 

"It seems to me that I will always be happy in the place where I am not." Paul Auster. "City of Glass"

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


Judy
 

Leo, since I’ve retired I haven’t had to use Microsoft Word, and if I have to write a note, list etc I just use Notepad. It’s easy and I can edit it without all the bells and whistles of Word. Does the Mac have a similar thing to Notepad? Thanks. Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Leo
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 10:03 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

HI, Windows 11 and Big Sur user here! My piece of advice, if you like to learn new things, just take the plunge, the learning curve was not Herculean labor for me because in trying new gadgets and apps, I am Indiana Jones, lol.  Bear in mind that you will be facing not only new commands but also a new concept on how to understand an ecosystem. You will know in a day or two  if you made the right choice because either you will dream about yourself sitting in front of your Mac or you will go psychotic. Drawing on my own experience, I can tell you that personally the only case I wouldn’t recommend a Mac computer to a Windows PC user is if the person is a heavy user of Microsoft Word. Let’s just say that text-processing is the downside for screen reader users in Mac, at least when it comes to be productive. Not that pages is not accessible, oh pages is so beautiful and accessible, but you don’t want to export every single document into a word document because it is time-consuming. Besides, most of the format will be lost, and using MS Word in Mac is like traveling to Colonial Williamsburg in a tripod.

 

 

Best,

     Leo Bado.

 

"It seems to me that I will always be happy in the place where I am not." Paul Auster. "City of Glass"

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


Leo
 

Yes, absolutely. It is called text Edit, and as you have pointed out, this is what most people use to jot down something quickly.

 

Best,

     Leo Bado.

 

"It seems to me that I will always be happy in the place where I am not." Paul Auster. "City of Glass"

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 11:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

Leo, since I’ve retired I haven’t had to use Microsoft Word, and if I have to write a note, list etc I just use Notepad. It’s easy and I can edit it without all the bells and whistles of Word. Does the Mac have a similar thing to Notepad? Thanks. Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Leo
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 10:03 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

HI, Windows 11 and Big Sur user here! My piece of advice, if you like to learn new things, just take the plunge, the learning curve was not Herculean labor for me because in trying new gadgets and apps, I am Indiana Jones, lol.  Bear in mind that you will be facing not only new commands but also a new concept on how to understand an ecosystem. You will know in a day or two  if you made the right choice because either you will dream about yourself sitting in front of your Mac or you will go psychotic. Drawing on my own experience, I can tell you that personally the only case I wouldn’t recommend a Mac computer to a Windows PC user is if the person is a heavy user of Microsoft Word. Let’s just say that text-processing is the downside for screen reader users in Mac, at least when it comes to be productive. Not that pages is not accessible, oh pages is so beautiful and accessible, but you don’t want to export every single document into a word document because it is time-consuming. Besides, most of the format will be lost, and using MS Word in Mac is like traveling to Colonial Williamsburg in a tripod.

 

 

Best,

     Leo Bado.

 

"It seems to me that I will always be happy in the place where I am not." Paul Auster. "City of Glass"

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


Jim Weiss <jimweiss72@...>
 

Judy,
Text edit is more close to WordPad, it is fairly rich and what it can do.



On Oct 10, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Judy <bunchkinbear@...> wrote:



Leo, since I’ve retired I haven’t had to use Microsoft Word, and if I have to write a note, list etc I just use Notepad. It’s easy and I can edit it without all the bells and whistles of Word. Does the Mac have a similar thing to Notepad? Thanks. Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Leo
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 10:03 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

HI, Windows 11 and Big Sur user here! My piece of advice, if you like to learn new things, just take the plunge, the learning curve was not Herculean labor for me because in trying new gadgets and apps, I am Indiana Jones, lol.  Bear in mind that you will be facing not only new commands but also a new concept on how to understand an ecosystem. You will know in a day or two  if you made the right choice because either you will dream about yourself sitting in front of your Mac or you will go psychotic. Drawing on my own experience, I can tell you that personally the only case I wouldn’t recommend a Mac computer to a Windows PC user is if the person is a heavy user of Microsoft Word. Let’s just say that text-processing is the downside for screen reader users in Mac, at least when it comes to be productive. Not that pages is not accessible, oh pages is so beautiful and accessible, but you don’t want to export every single document into a word document because it is time-consuming. Besides, most of the format will be lost, and using MS Word in Mac is like traveling to Colonial Williamsburg in a tripod.

 

 

Best,

     Leo Bado.

 

"It seems to me that I will always be happy in the place where I am not." Paul Auster. "City of Glass"

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


Marianne Denning
 

I tried to learn to use VO on a Mac and gave up. I really prefer to use Windows and JAWS. I know that  is because I learned JAWS first. There is really a big difference between VO on your iPhone and VO on a Mac. I thought it was learning to use a text to speech system all over.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 9:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


 

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 03:28 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:
There is really a big difference between VO on your iPhone and VO on a Mac. I thought it was learning to use a text to speech system all over.
-
And, in addition, there is a really big difference between iOS, and its touch interface, and MacOS, even if you have a touch enabled Mac.

I thank you for confirming, from firsthand experience, what I was attempting to communicate earlier.  No iPhone user should delude themselves into thinking that a Mac is just an iPhone that sits on a desk, and vice versa.

The learning curve for any new OS is shallow, lengthy, and laborious.  You can certainly learn "the basics" pretty quickly, but you always get caught out because something you thought was not a basic, but that was already on "full automatic" mode for you in your familiar ecosystem, has to be learned again.  Operating systems are much like onions in that you really don't realize how many layers you've already peeled within an ecosystem you're familiar with and how long it takes to have equal ease and proficiency when you switch.  It's not a decision to be taken lightly, no matter the direction in which jumping is being considered.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer