moderated What is the new keyboard layout


Loy
 

There is a new keyboard layout listed in the keyboard layout selection box. What is it? I don't know how to spell it, but it sounds like kenisisst.


Gene Warner
 

I'm don't know what it is either but for every one else it is the 3rd option and is spelled Kinesis.

Power tip:
If you hear JAWS say a word and you aren't sure what it is, use the speech history feature (insert+space>H), then scroll around until you find the line with the word in question, you can then use control+arrows and the arrow keys to go to and listen to the word letter by letter.

Gene...

On 7/14/2022 2:11 PM, Loy wrote:
There is a new keyboard layout listed in the keyboard layout selection box. What is it? I don't know how to spell it, but it sounds like kenisisst.


Bill White
 

Hi, Loy.

 

The Kinesis line of ergonomic computer keyboards is an alternative to the traditional keyboard design. Most widely known among these are the contoured Advantage line, which feature recessed keys in two bucket-like hollows which allow the fingers to reach keys with less effort as well as a central array of modifiers such as enter, alt, backspace, control, etc. where they can be pressed with the thumbs. All Kinesis keyboards (except the Essential) support the capability to re-map individual keys. Recent models also come with the ability to switch between the Dvorak layout with the press of a special key combination, though keycaps printed with dual-legend QWERTY/Dvorak letters are included only on specific models. Moreover, the keys are laid out in perfect vertical rows to avoid the need for lateral movements during typing.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 11:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What is the new keyboard layout

 

There is a new keyboard layout listed in the keyboard layout selection box. What is it? I don't know how to spell it, but it sounds like kenisisst.


Taylor Durrett
 

I was wondering about this too. I sent a message in this group earlier today but haven’t gotten any responses back. My function keys on my top row of my new laptop  are not functioning like normal function keys, but instead they’re like, functioning like multimedia keys instead. Like one of them is functioning as a mute button instead of the F5  key, just normal F5. When I go to a  Webpage, I cannot seem to activate the links list with insert F7. It just doesn’t do anything. I’ve even messed around with choosing the different keyboard layouts. And I was told that I could hold down the function key and then hit escape and that would switch the way the function keys work, but I’ve tried that and still nothing. Is JAWS supposed to say something when you do that Function+Escape command? I know that I could pull up the links list with the Hey Sharky command, but I’d still like for that insert F7 command to work

Taylor Durrett
Assistive Technology Trainer for the Blind and Visually Impaired
JAWS Certified, October 2020
(940) 230-6051

On Jul 14, 2022, at 1:23 PM, Bill White <billwhite92701@...> wrote:



Hi, Loy.

 

The Kinesis line of ergonomic computer keyboards is an alternative to the traditional keyboard design. Most widely known among these are the contoured Advantage line, which feature recessed keys in two bucket-like hollows which allow the fingers to reach keys with less effort as well as a central array of modifiers such as enter, alt, backspace, control, etc. where they can be pressed with the thumbs. All Kinesis keyboards (except the Essential) support the capability to re-map individual keys. Recent models also come with the ability to switch between the Dvorak layout with the press of a special key combination, though keycaps printed with dual-legend QWERTY/Dvorak letters are included only on specific models. Moreover, the keys are laid out in perfect vertical rows to avoid the need for lateral movements during typing.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 11:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What is the new keyboard layout

 

There is a new keyboard layout listed in the keyboard layout selection box. What is it? I don't know how to spell it, but it sounds like kenisisst.


Mike B.
 


It would help to know the make and model of your laptop.
 
 
Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: What is the new keyboard layout

I was wondering about this too. I sent a message in this group earlier today but haven’t gotten any responses back. My function keys on my top row of my new laptop  are not functioning like normal function keys, but instead they’re like, functioning like multimedia keys instead. Like one of them is functioning as a mute button instead of the F5  key, just normal F5. When I go to a  Webpage, I cannot seem to activate the links list with insert F7. It just doesn’t do anything. I’ve even messed around with choosing the different keyboard layouts. And I was told that I could hold down the function key and then hit escape and that would switch the way the function keys work, but I’ve tried that and still nothing. Is JAWS supposed to say something when you do that Function+Escape command? I know that I could pull up the links list with the Hey Sharky command, but I’d still like for that insert F7 command to work

Taylor Durrett
Assistive Technology Trainer for the Blind and Visually Impaired
JAWS Certified, October 2020
(940) 230-6051

On Jul 14, 2022, at 1:23 PM, Bill White <billwhite92701@...> wrote:



Hi, Loy.

The Kinesis line of ergonomic computer keyboards is an alternative to the traditional keyboard design. Most widely known among these are the contoured Advantage line, which feature recessed keys in two bucket-like hollows which allow the fingers to reach keys with less effort as well as a central array of modifiers such as enter, alt, backspace, control, etc. where they can be pressed with the thumbs. All Kinesis keyboards (except the Essential) support the capability to re-map individual keys. Recent models also come with the ability to switch between the Dvorak layout with the press of a special key combination, though keycaps printed with dual-legend QWERTY/Dvorak letters are included only on specific models. Moreover, the keys are laid out in perfect vertical rows to avoid the need for lateral movements during typing.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 11:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What is the new keyboard layout

There is a new keyboard layout listed in the keyboard layout selection box. What is it? I don't know how to spell it, but it sounds like kenisisst.


 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM, Taylor Durrett wrote:
My function keys on my top row of my new laptop  are not functioning like normal function keys, but instead they’re like, functioning like multimedia keys instead.
-
This is a very, very common convention indeed, and has been for some time now.  If you're not a screen reader user there's almost never a time where the use of the function key row as "actual function keys" just doesn't arise.  On the rare occasions it does, holding down the Fn key and hitting the needed function key on that row makes it act as a standard function key rather than a media key.

There are a few makers, Lenovo being one of them, that allows the media key function to be toggled on/off within Windows using a utility they supply.  Most, however, require the media keys/action keys/whatever the given manufacturer calls them to be toggled off in UEFI/BIOS, which requires sighted assistance since there is no screen reader support before the operating system loads.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


Bharat
 

I recently got this HP pro notebook with Windows 11. At the time when
I got it, function keys were working like multimedia keys but I hit
function+escape & it did not turn off with that. on my Lenovo laptop
that shortcut for disabling multimedia keys actually worked all the
time. as proceeded to disable the widgets & few other things such as
notification chevron, quite mysteriously, those multimedia keys became
the normal function keys. I am not really too sure what explains all
this but I have happily been using all the function keys since then.


Thank you,

Bharat

On 7/16/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM, Taylor Durrett wrote:


My function keys on my top row of my new laptop  are not functioning like
normal function keys, but instead they’re like, functioning like
multimedia keys instead.
-
This is a very, very common convention indeed, and has been for some time
now.  If you're not a screen reader user there's almost never a time where
the use of the function key row as "actual function keys" just doesn't
arise.  On the rare occasions it does, holding down the Fn key and hitting
the needed function key on that row makes it act as a standard function key
rather than a media key.

There are a few makers, Lenovo being one of them, that allows the media key
function to be toggled on/off within Windows using a utility they supply.
Most, however, require the media keys/action keys/whatever the given
manufacturer calls them to be toggled off in UEFI/BIOS, which requires
sighted assistance since there is no screen reader support before the
operating system loads.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If
you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






Dave Durber
 

Bhararte:

You will need someone with sight, to go into the BIOS, and change the setting there. Once changed, the setting will remain. However, if the back up battery runs out, this setting, along with many others, will be lost, until you replace the battery, and get someone to reset the BIOS settings.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bharat" <bharat.b@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2022 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: What is the new keyboard layout


I recently got this HP pro notebook with Windows 11. At the time when
I got it, function keys were working like multimedia keys but I hit
function+escape & it did not turn off with that. on my Lenovo laptop
that shortcut for disabling multimedia keys actually worked all the
time. as proceeded to disable the widgets & few other things such as
notification chevron, quite mysteriously, those multimedia keys became
the normal function keys. I am not really too sure what explains all
this but I have happily been using all the function keys since then.


Thank you,

Bharat

On 7/16/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM, Taylor Durrett wrote:


My function keys on my top row of my new laptop are not functioning like
normal function keys, but instead they’re like, functioning like
multimedia keys instead.
-
This is a very, very common convention indeed, and has been for some time
now. If you're not a screen reader user there's almost never a time where
the use of the function key row as "actual function keys" just doesn't
arise. On the rare occasions it does, holding down the Fn key and hitting
the needed function key on that row makes it act as a standard function key
rather than a media key.

There are a few makers, Lenovo being one of them, that allows the media key
function to be toggled on/off within Windows using a utility they supply.
Most, however, require the media keys/action keys/whatever the given
manufacturer calls them to be toggled off in UEFI/BIOS, which requires
sighted assistance since there is no screen reader support before the
operating system loads.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






Mike Pietruk
 

Brian

I've been looking for this ahnswer for some time as my f11 key raises
volume which, mormally, is what I want it to do.
But, what is the "fn" key (ie, where is it?)

Thanks in advance.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM, Taylor Durrett wrote:


My function keys on my top row of my new laptop  are not functioning like
normal function keys, but instead theyÿÿre like, functioning like
multimedia keys instead.
-
This is a very, very common convention indeed, and has been for some time now.  If you're not a screen reader user there's almost never a time where the use of the function key row as "actual function keys" just doesn't arise.  On the rare occasions it does, holding down the Fn key and hitting the needed function key on that row makes it act as a standard function key rather than a media key.

There are a few makers, Lenovo being one of them, that allows the media key function to be toggled on/off within Windows using a utility they supply.  Most, however, require the media keys/action keys/whatever the given manufacturer calls them to be toggled off in UEFI/BIOS, which requires sighted assistance since there is no screen reader support before the operating system loads.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If youÿÿre alive, it isnÿÿt.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






Gene Warner
 

On most laptops the FN key is usually in the bottom row on the left side between the control and Windows keys, thought it can be between the Windows and alt keys. It really depends on the brand and model of your laptop because it seems that everyone has their own ideas where some keys should go, even between models of the same brand.

Gene...

On 7/16/2022 6:08 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
Brian
I've been looking for this ahnswer for some time as my f11 key raises
volume which, mormally, is what I want it to do.
But, what is the "fn" key (ie, where is it?)
Thanks in advance.
On Fri, 15 Jul 2022, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM, Taylor Durrett wrote:


My function keys on my top row of my new laptop  are not functioning like
normal function keys, but instead theyÿÿre like, functioning like
multimedia keys instead.
-
This is a very, very common convention indeed, and has been for some time now.  If you're not a screen reader user there's almost never a time where the use of the function key row as "actual function keys" just doesn't arise.  On the rare occasions it does, holding down the Fn key and hitting the needed function key on that row makes it act as a standard function key rather than a media key.

There are a few makers, Lenovo being one of them, that allows the media key function to be toggled on/off within Windows using a utility they supply.  Most, however, require the media keys/action keys/whatever the given manufacturer calls them to be toggled off in UEFI/BIOS, which requires sighted assistance since there is no screen reader support before the operating system loads.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If youÿÿre alive, it isnÿÿt.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






Mike Pietruk
 

is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?


Gene Warner
 

I've never seen one.

Gene...

On 7/16/2022 6:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?


 

On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?
-
If such exist they are very rare.  And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.

On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard.  I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic).  When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


Ann Byrne
 

Some USB keyboards have a function key to the right of the spacebar where the right Windows key should be.

At 10:45 AM 7/16/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?

-If such exist they are very rare. And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard. I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic). When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.   ~ Lauren Bacall


Gene Warner
 

I've never seen a Windows key on the right side of any keyboards, what I do see there is the application key which is the same as a right click with a mouse.

Gene...

On 7/16/2022 1:09 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Some USB keyboards have a function key to the right of the spacebar where the right Windows key should be.
At 10:45 AM 7/16/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?

-If such exist they are very rare.  And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard.  I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic).  When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.     ~ Lauren Bacall


Maria Campbell
 

I have a keyboard with Windows keys on right and left of space bar.


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

On 7/16/2022 1:34 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I've never seen a Windows key on the right side of any keyboards, what I do see there is the application key which is the same as a right click with a mouse.

Gene...


On 7/16/2022 1:09 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Some USB keyboards have a function key to the right of the spacebar where the right Windows key should be.
At 10:45 AM 7/16/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?

-If such exist they are very rare.  And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard.  I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic).  When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.     ~ Lauren Bacall







Gene Warner
 

Interesting! I've never seen that, I think that I myself prefer to have an application key on the right, right click is so handy in Windows that I wouldn't want to be without it, that is one reason why I hate my laptop's keyboard, it has no application key.

Gene...

On 7/16/2022 2:15 PM, Maria Campbell wrote:
I have a keyboard with Windows keys on right and left of space bar.
Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
On 7/16/2022 1:34 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I've never seen a Windows key on the right side of any keyboards, what I do see there is the application key which is the same as a right click with a mouse.

Gene...


On 7/16/2022 1:09 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Some USB keyboards have a function key to the right of the spacebar where the right Windows key should be.
At 10:45 AM 7/16/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?

-If such exist they are very rare.  And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard.  I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic).  When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.     ~ Lauren Bacall








Maria Campbell
 

I hate my laptop's keyboard also, which is why I use an external keyboard all the time.


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

On 7/16/2022 2:22 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Interesting! I've never seen that, I think that I myself prefer to have an application key on the right, right click is so handy in Windows that I wouldn't want to be without it, that is one reason why I hate my laptop's keyboard, it has no application key.

Gene...


On 7/16/2022 2:15 PM, Maria Campbell wrote:
I have a keyboard with Windows keys on right and left of space bar.


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

On 7/16/2022 1:34 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I've never seen a Windows key on the right side of any keyboards, what I do see there is the application key which is the same as a right click with a mouse.

Gene...


On 7/16/2022 1:09 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Some USB keyboards have a function key to the right of the spacebar where the right Windows key should be.
At 10:45 AM 7/16/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?

-If such exist they are very rare.  And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard.  I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic).  When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.     ~ Lauren Bacall













 

On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 02:22 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
that is one reason why I hate my laptop's keyboard, it has no application key.
-
I'd say most don't.  I rely on SHIFT + F10 when not using literal right click.

It mystifies me why most tech teachers of the blind do not teach their students to simply mask off the touchpad part of the mousepad that results in actual mouse pointer movement, but to still use the actual hard left and right click keys.  They're just so much more reliable than any emulation and are easily accessible with your thumbs or any other finger you prefer.  All of my students are taught this because it makes their lives so much easier if they're routinely using a laptop.

It's also very handy to be able to either remove your masking or flip it to one side when enlisting sighted help that needs to actually use the mousepad on a laptop.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


Gene Warner
 

So do I, my laptop is my only computer, I got a docking station for it so that disconnecting it from my desktop setup would be a breeze when I go to visit my parents.

Gene...

On 7/16/2022 2:28 PM, Maria Campbell wrote:
I hate my laptop's keyboard also, which is why I use an external keyboard all the time.
Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
On 7/16/2022 2:22 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Interesting! I've never seen that, I think that I myself prefer to have an application key on the right, right click is so handy in Windows that I wouldn't want to be without it, that is one reason why I hate my laptop's keyboard, it has no application key.

Gene...


On 7/16/2022 2:15 PM, Maria Campbell wrote:
I have a keyboard with Windows keys on right and left of space bar.


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

On 7/16/2022 1:34 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I've never seen a Windows key on the right side of any keyboards, what I do see there is the application key which is the same as a right click with a mouse.

Gene...


On 7/16/2022 1:09 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Some USB keyboards have a function key to the right of the spacebar where the right Windows key should be.
At 10:45 AM 7/16/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Mike Pietruk wrote:
is there a "fn" key on desktops to accomplish the same thing?

-If such exist they are very rare.  And that's because for desktop keyboards if a row of media keys is wanted it's generally done as its own thing above the function key row, often using oval keys some or all of which are that "rubbery" feel rather than hard plastic.On my HP laptops, the Fn key is, as Gene has noted, positioned between the CTRL and WinKey at the lower left side of the keyboard.  I end up using this key a lot because I have turned off media keys to make using a screen reader easier (and more realistic).  When I want the media key function I have to hit the Fn key plus the function key associated with the media key. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.     ~ Lauren Bacall