Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I
wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.

On 8/28/2022 7:26 PM, Loy wrote:

I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when
I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed
up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* David Diamond <mailto:Daviddiamond2019@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my
opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to
control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone
wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service
(Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any
reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is
sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>

I go all the way back to XP and have never had any problems. Perhaps I'm
blessed. I know when 10 first came out some waited till it was downloaded
even if it took months before MS downloaded it. Then of course the download
happened at a inopportune time, while he was going to travel on the bus to
another town.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: August 28, 2022 5:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

At the end of the day, exactly! It is my computer, not Microsoft's, it is my
right to choose what goes on it and what does not.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 8:29 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:

Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I
wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.

On 8/28/2022 7:26 PM, Loy wrote:

I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when
I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed
up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* David Diamond <mailto:Daviddiamond2019@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my
opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to
control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone
wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service
(Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any
reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is
sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do not
hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, or
any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by decades
of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for the most
part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, but they are
extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not avoiding updates, but
by taking routine backups.  Your computer can fail for a variety of reasons,
and almost all are more common than "the bad update."  If you don't have a
backup protocol in place, and follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now
in the age of SSDs far more than it was for the last several decades of
HDDs, which were easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure
than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If
you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do not
hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, or
any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency. Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by decades
of work in the computing field. The disastrous update is, for the most
part, an urban myth. It's not that they never, ever happen, but they are
extremely infrequent. And the solution to that is not avoiding updates, but
by taking routine backups. Your computer can fail for a variety of reasons,
and almost all are more common than "the bad update." If you don't have a
backup protocol in place, and follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now
in the age of SSDs far more than it was for the last several decades of
HDDs, which were easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure
than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android,
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by
decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for
the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen,
but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than
"the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android,
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency. Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by
decades of work in the computing field. The disastrous update is, for
the most part, an urban myth. It's not that they never, ever happen,
but they are extremely infrequent. And the solution to that is not
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups. Your computer can
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than
"the bad update." If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

The sad thing is that updates are often blamed as being bad, when in reality, often there is a change in the way the OS works. Windows over the years has added and removed features. Some people thing the update is bad because they suddenly can't do something they could before the update. It most likely means windows removed that feature.

I live with a tech who has been one for 35+ years, working on networks. Security, privacy, etc are all critical. I applaud Apple for sending out their most recent update. It now should prevent someone from taking over my phone when it is not in their physical possession. They could have waited until their new version comes out next month, but they took security seriously and sent it out now, rather than just including it as part of the yearly update to a new version.

For me, automatic updates are on, no exceptions. I try to learn to do things in at least two ways in case the OS company decides to remove the feature I am using. And I practice them.

For the person who does not want automatic updates at all. My husband has a solution. Two computers, both running the same thing, same OS, same everything. One is a test and has automatic updates turned on. The other is the production computer and has automatic updates turned off, but downloads the updates so they are ready to install. As soon as an update is available, the person has to check the test computer to see if it all works. Then they have to update the production computer. This is a lot of work and a lot of time spent that isn't necessary. Most of the time by the time we get the update, it has gone through beta. If something breaks on our end, it is because we have set something odd on our computer, which is why I am careful about changing settings.

In all the years I've had a computer, I've seen one buggy update and the solution came out quickly. I think it was around the turn of the century. That was many years ago. Considering how "new" computers are to the universe, we have come a long way. Given all the thieves in the world, I would rather have my computer and phone update as soon as one comes out. I sent a link earlier in the year that lists the vulnerabilities for operating systems. If one is a zero day, I want the update now and installed now. The way to get that is automatic updates. I am not going to sit on my computer all day and watch for updates. I have loads of other things to do. Off to do them. <smile>

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 10:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

I guess I'm in the minority then.  I've not had the problems some have had with the updates either with windows or IOS. Sometimes I think people complain because they can, or, there is something else going on and the update is blamed.   

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James English
Sent: August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do 
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, 
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical 
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by 
decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for 
the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, 
but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not 
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can 
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than 
"the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and 
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far 
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were 
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

You pretty much answered your own question.  By your own admission, you live with an experienced techie.  But what about the overwhelming majority of blind computer  users who are not so lucky or may not even have sighted help on hand to bail them out when an update causes unexpected problems or  loss of speech? I have an even simpler solution for avoiding automatic updates.  Just stick with Windows 7.  Go ahead and laugh or scare monger about how this exposes you to malware attacks.  Remember all the naysayers who predicted gloom and doom, including some on this list, by staying with Windows 7 after support for it eneded?  It turned out to be much ado about nothing.  For the record, Windows 7 still has a larger share of the Windows market than Windows 11, which tells you something about its enduring legacy. Just ask Microsoft expert Paul Therrot or the thousands of blind computer users who still swear by it and never have to worry about an update causing unanticipated trouble.  

Gerald

The sad thing is that updates are often blamed as being bad, when in reality, often there is a change in the way the OS works. Windows over the years has added and removed features. Some people thing the update is bad because they suddenly can't do something they could before the update. It most likely means windows removed that feature.

I live with a tech who has been one for 35+ years, working on networks. Security, privacy, etc are all critical. I applaud Apple for sending out their most recent update. It now should prevent someone from taking over my phone when it is not in their physical possession. They could have waited until their new version comes out next month, but they took security seriously and sent it out now, rather than just including it as part of the yearly update to a new version.

For me, automatic updates are on, no exceptions. I try to learn to do things in at least two ways in case the OS company decides to remove the feature I am using. And I practice them.

For the person who does not want automatic updates at all. My husband has a solution. Two computers, both running the same thing, same OS, same everything. One is a test and has automatic updates turned on. The other is the production computer and has automatic updates turned off, but downloads the updates so they are ready to install. As soon as an update is available, the person has to check the test computer to see if it all works. Then they have to update the production computer. This is a lot of work and a lot of time spent that isn't necessary. Most of the time by the time we get the update, it has gone through beta. If something breaks on our end, it is because we have set something odd on our computer, which is why I am careful about changing settings.

In all the years I've had a computer, I've seen one buggy update and the solution came out quickly. I think it was around the turn of the century. That was many years ago. Considering how "new" computers are to the universe, we have come a long way. Given all the thieves in the world, I would rather have my computer and phone update as soon as one comes out. I sent a link earlier in the year that lists the vulnerabilities for operating systems. If one is a zero day, I want the update now and installed now. The way to get that is automatic updates. I am not going to sit on my computer all day and watch for updates. I have loads of other things to do. Off to do them. <smile>

Karen

-----Original Message-----

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 10:04 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: stop update

I guess I'm in the minority then.  I've not had the problems some have had with the updates either with windows or IOS. Sometimes I think people complain because they can, or, there is something else going on and the update is blamed.   

-----Original Message-----

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James English

Sent: August 29, 2022 6:35 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: stop update

Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do 

not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, 

or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical 

consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by 

decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for 

the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, 

but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not 

avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can 

fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than 

"the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and 

follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far 

more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were 

easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 

If you’re alive, it isn’t.

* ~ Lauren Bacall