MS doesn't give a rat's ass what the public thinks.  If it did, it would have replaced the much-despised ribbon menu structure with the more convenient and less cumbersome classic menu structure that most of its customers, sighted and blind alike,  prefer. On the contrary, MS seems to go out of its way to frustrate and tick off its customers just to prove that they can do anything they damn well please and get away with it.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Hi all,
I am a very infrequent poster on this list, but I needed to contribute on this one.
The lack of a shutdown sound does NOT indicate a lack of accessibility You could always use a light detector app to determine if the screen is off, or place your ear close to the computer to hear the different sounds stop. Systems change. That’s a fact. The Mac, for example, does not make the startup sound on the new machines. It’s sad, but it’s true. In an age where people want faster operating systems and less noise from machines, Microsoft has to go with what the public wants, not a niche market. If you really think that Microsoft or any other company is stepping back in terms of accessibility, I’d strongly encourage you to do a bit of research into current accessibility developments first.
Aleeha

On Jul 31, 2018, at 9:42 AM, David Ingram <dingram269@earthlink.net> wrote:

hi list members, what version of jaws are being used currently? If the answers is jaws 2018 or jaws 17 then you should hear all system sounds. I'currently using jaws version 16.  This means that if you're using jaws 17 or 2018 with windows 10 version 1803 you should hear all system soundsI'm going to check to see whether windows 10 version 1803 does the same with firefox?


-----Original Message-----

From: cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net>
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe.  But that's what these lists are for.  To ask questions and get
answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:

I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too.  I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue.  We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.

On Jul 31, 2018, at 9:42 AM, David Ingram <dingram269@earthlink.net> wrote:

hi list members, what version of jaws are being used currently? If the answers is jaws 2018 or jaws 17 then you should hear all system sounds. I'currently using jaws version 16. This means that if you're using jaws 17 or 2018 with windows 10 version 1803 you should hear all system soundsI'm going to check to see whether windows 10 version 1803 does the same with firefox?


-----Original Message-----

From: cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net>
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe. But that's what these lists are for. To ask questions and get
answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:

I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too. I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue. We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.

Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything. Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice. But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10. The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@earthlink.net>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Voll
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

JonasVoll
Support Technician I
Envision, Inc.
2301 S Water ST
Wichita, KS67213
O: 316-425-7141
F: 316-267-4312
www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>;

Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
about accessibility.

As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. The
creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
accessibility.

Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
down or not. Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
Pick your battles.

--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
tempting moment./

~ Dorothy Nevill


SonicWall identified this message as clean.

To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
and

logon with your domain userid and password.

If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

'spam@nospam.envisionus.com'

*NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
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individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing,
retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message
or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and
any copies of this message from your computer system.

Agreed. The entire thing is so petty. If you want to know if your computer is on or off, do like I have done. Arrow up or down, if it makes a screen reader sound, it is on, if nothing happens, either your computer is off or someone has shut off the sound. For those who bitch about M S, if you don't like it, get a MAC. Time for the little kitties to go to bed and let the adults worry about the important things.

David & his pack of dogs. Benny, Sheena both no longer with us, Champ, Kendra, Richie, and Carmine.
From The Diamond Touch dog Rehabilitation Centre. Privacy Disclaimer This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited.

1-844-21PUPPY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: July 31, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Guess that is what I was thinking as well. I understand all the input on the subject. I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla. What is the big deal? None as far as I can tell. But opinions are vast and everyone has one. Some are more in depth than others. Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility. I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew


On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:

Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything. Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice. But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10. The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@earthlink.net>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Voll
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

JonasVoll
Support Technician I
Envision, Inc.
2301 S Water ST
Wichita, KS67213
O: 316-425-7141
F: 316-267-4312
www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>;

Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
about accessibility.

As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. The
creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
accessibility.

Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
down or not. Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
Pick your battles.

--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
tempting moment./

~ Dorothy Nevill


SonicWall identified this message as clean.

To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
and

logon with your domain userid and password.

If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

'spam@nospam.envisionus.com'

*NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the
individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing,
retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message
or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and
any copies of this message from your computer system.

Dumb!


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@gmail.com

"Preach the Gospel, and when necessary use words!"
--St. Francis

On 7/31/2018 11:33 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

Agreed.  The entire thing is so petty.  If you want to know if your computer is on or off, do like I have done.  Arrow up or down, if it makes a screen reader sound, it is on, if nothing happens, either your computer is off or someone has shut off the sound. For those who bitch about M S, if you don't like it, get a MAC.  Time for the little kitties to go to bed and let the adults worry about the important things.

David & his pack of dogs. Benny, Sheena both no longer with us, Champ, Kendra, Richie, and Carmine.
 From The Diamond Touch dog Rehabilitation Centre. Privacy Disclaimer This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited.

1-844-21PUPPY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: July 31, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Guess that is what I was thinking as well.  I understand  all the input on the subject.  I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla.  What is the big deal?  None as far as I can tell. But opinions are vast and everyone has one.  Some are more in depth than others.  Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility.  I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew


On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:

Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything.  Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice.  But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10.  The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@earthlink.net>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

       -----Original Message-----
       From: Jonas Voll
       Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
       To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
       Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

       I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

       Free will, is what I want!

       JonasVoll
       Support Technician I
       Envision, Inc.
       2301 S Water ST
       Wichita, KS67213
       O: 316-425-7141
       F: 316-267-4312
       www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>;

       Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
       and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
       through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


       *From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
       *Brian Vogel
       *Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
       *To:* main@jfw.groups.io
       *Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

       On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

           I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
           about accessibility.

       As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention.   The
       creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
       same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
       accessibility.

       Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
       even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
       down or not.  Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
       will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
       than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
       as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

       The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
       Pick your battles.

       --
       Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

       /The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
       in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
       tempting moment./

                 ~ Dorothy Nevill


       SonicWall identified this message as clean.

       To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
       and

       logon with your domain userid and password.

       If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

       'spam@nospam.envisionus.com'

       *NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
       confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the
       individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the
       intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing,
       retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message
       or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited.
       If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
       advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
       permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and
       any copies of this message from your computer system.

On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Teresa <pennylain5@gmail.com> wrote:

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down? Thanks to all in advance.

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down? Thanks to all in advance.

Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything. Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice. But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10. The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@earthlink.net>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Voll
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

JonasVoll
Support Technician I
Envision, Inc.
2301 S Water ST
Wichita, KS67213
O: 316-425-7141
F: 316-267-4312
www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>;

Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
about accessibility.

As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. The
creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
accessibility.

Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
down or not. Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
Pick your battles.

--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
tempting moment./

~ Dorothy Nevill


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I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@att.net]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too. I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue. We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.

Someone said if you uncheck fast startup in the power settings the

startup and shutdown sound options return.  On my system they do not.

I wonder how many people that have fast startup enabled know that this

does not do the same as a restart?  If you have fast startup enabled you

should on a regular basis do a system restart.  I have fast startup

disabled as I think a full shutdown gives you better overall

performance.  Can't think that a few more seconds for bootup is a

terrible thing.

What about the fact that the iPhone and Mac don’t and have never had, shut down sounds? Why are we not bashing Apple as well? The point that has been made that Microsoft should focus on more important accessibility features rather than focusing on the shut down sound. The shut down sound is not an accessibility feature. And you’re right: they’re spending more time on accessibility features than worrying about a petty little concern that doesn’t even conclusively indicate anything. The computer is not shut down when you hear the sound. It is only shut down when the fans and hard drive stop.

Aleeha

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

 

Someone said if you uncheck fast startup in the power settings the

startup and shutdown sound options return.  On my system they do not.

I wonder how many people that have fast startup enabled know that this

does not do the same as a restart?  If you have fast startup enabled you

should on a regular basis do a system restart.  I have fast startup

disabled as I think a full shutdown gives you better overall

performance.  Can't think that a few more seconds for bootup is a

terrible thing.

 

 

 

 

So I will say it again.  The shut down sound was there, and now it is not?  Why not?

Maria Campbell

lucky1inct@...

"Preach the Gospel, and when necessary use words!"

--St. Francis

What about the fact that the iPhone and Mac don’t and have never had, shut down sounds? Why are we not bashing Apple as well? The point that has been made that Microsoft should focus on more important accessibility features rather than focusing on the shut down sound. The shut down sound is not an accessibility feature. And you’re right: they’re spending more time on accessibility features than worrying about a petty little concern that doesn’t even conclusively indicate anything. The computer is not shut down when you hear the sound. It is only shut down when the fans and hard drive stop.

Aleeha

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

 

Someone said if you uncheck fast startup in the power settings the

startup and shutdown sound options return.  On my system they do not.

I wonder how many people that have fast startup enabled know that this

does not do the same as a restart?  If you have fast startup enabled you

should on a regular basis do a system restart.  I have fast startup

disabled as I think a full shutdown gives you better overall

performance.  Can't think that a few more seconds for bootup is a

terrible thing.

 

 

 

 

Him

It’s been like this since Windows 8, with overall emphasis on making desktop experience similar to that of tablets and smartphones (with mixed success and bringing controversy along the way).

My overall impression is that shutdown sounds (or for that matter, system sounds) is NOT an indicator of level of accessibility of an operating system; they are “earcons” (ear plus icons), meant to convey confirmation of an event via audible means. To me, what defines accessibility is a combination of attitudes and technologies (some of you would recognize this statement, as I’ve been championing this since 2014 when Windows Insider Program was first launched). Attitudes matter because how users and developers understand accessibility and needs of customers will shape how accessible the end product will be. Technologies matter because without means of delivering on that attitudes, attempts at convincing the public and developers won’t be that strong. Thus, to me, lack of shutdown sounds is a small thing compared to attitudes of some developers who think it is okay to just design beautiful interfaces without giving thoughts to accessibility, and screen reader vendors are not exempt from this.

I do understand that what I said above may offend some of you. However, I think it is important for us to think about the big picture in the realm of accessibility.

Cheers,

Jsoeph

So I will say it again.  The shut down sound was there, and now it is not?  Why not?

Maria Campbell

lucky1inct@...

"Preach the Gospel, and when necessary use words!"

--St. Francis

What about the fact that the iPhone and Mac don’t and have never had, shut down sounds? Why are we not bashing Apple as well? The point that has been made that Microsoft should focus on more important accessibility features rather than focusing on the shut down sound. The shut down sound is not an accessibility feature. And you’re right: they’re spending more time on accessibility features than worrying about a petty little concern that doesn’t even conclusively indicate anything. The computer is not shut down when you hear the sound. It is only shut down when the fans and hard drive stop.

Aleeha

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

 

Someone said if you uncheck fast startup in the power settings the

startup and shutdown sound options return.  On my system they do not.

I wonder how many people that have fast startup enabled know that this

does not do the same as a restart?  If you have fast startup enabled you

should on a regular basis do a system restart.  I have fast startup

disabled as I think a full shutdown gives you better overall

performance.  Can't think that a few more seconds for bootup is a

terrible thing.