Topics

moderated Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers


kelby carlson
 

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


Chris Hill
 

When you open the document, does adobe not ask you what reading order you'd prefer?  If so, have you tried the various options? If not, maybe you should check in the edit menu for the accessibility assistant and turn the reading order feature back on.  May not help, but this sounds like what the feature should have been meant for.

On 6/15/2020 19:56, kelby carlson wrote:
In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


CJ &AA MAY
 

I have a similar problem with the lyrics sent to me by Rock Choir, so a
solution would be much appreciated.
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: 16 June 2020 01:56
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each
of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe,
frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have
to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem,
but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it
takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


Dean Martineau <topdot@...>
 

I wonder what would happen if you sent that PDF to Word, assuming you're running something modern, Microsoft 365 for instance. Now I seldom open PDF's in Adobe. I have Word in my SendTo folder, so when I encounter a PDF, in the context menu I hit N for SendTo, W for Word and the PDF opens very readably in Word. As I'm writing, I don't know why I don't just change the default for PdF to Word. Just a thought.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

When you open the document, does adobe not ask you what reading order
you'd prefer? If so, have you tried the various options? If not, maybe
you should check in the edit menu for the accessibility assistant and
turn the reading order feature back on. May not help, but this sounds
like what the feature should have been meant for.





On 6/15/2020 19:56, kelby carlson wrote:
In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


Chris Hill
 

I don't think you'd get any choice for reading order if you sent the document to word.  Probably the best choice for this situation would be to use k1000 to recognize the pdf using the omnipage engine with column identification disabled.

On 6/16/2020 09:07, Dean Martineau wrote:
I wonder what would happen if you sent that PDF to Word, assuming you're running something modern, Microsoft 365 for instance. Now I seldom open PDF's in Adobe. I have Word in my SendTo folder, so when I encounter a PDF, in the context menu I hit N for SendTo, W for Word and the PDF opens very readably in Word. As I'm writing, I don't know why I don't just change the default for PdF to Word. Just a thought.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

When you open the document, does adobe not ask you what reading order
you'd prefer? If so, have you tried the various options? If not, maybe
you should check in the edit menu for the accessibility assistant and
turn the reading order feature back on. May not help, but this sounds
like what the feature should have been meant for.





On 6/15/2020 19:56, kelby carlson wrote:
In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.




Mario
 

I wonder how the recognition of the OCR feature in JAWS would handle the problem being discussed.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Chris Hill [mailto:hillco@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 10:39 AM
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

I don't think you'd get any choice for reading order if you sent the
document to word.  Probably the best choice for this situation would be
to use k1000 to recognize the pdf using the omnipage engine with column
identification disabled.



On 6/16/2020 09:07, Dean Martineau wrote:
I wonder what would happen if you sent that PDF to Word, assuming
you're running something modern, Microsoft 365 for instance. Now I
seldom open PDF's in Adobe. I have Word in my SendTo folder, so when I
encounter a PDF, in the context menu  I hit N for SendTo, W for Word
and the PDF opens very readably in Word. As I'm writing, I don't know
why I don't just change the default for PdF to Word.  Just a thought.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

When you open the document, does adobe not ask you what reading order
you'd prefer?  If so, have you tried the various options? If not, maybe
you should check in the edit menu for the accessibility assistant and
turn the reading order feature back on.  May not help, but this sounds
like what the feature should have been meant for.





On 6/15/2020 19:56, kelby carlson wrote:
In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where
each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in
Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the
page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this
is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help
with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than
it should.










.


 

Kelby,

I'm doubtful there is anything JAWS can do to make your document more
readable. It sounds as if whoever created the document was using Microsoft
Word to number the lines and when they saved it as a PDF file, the line
numbers were treated as a separate object from the text and placed at the
beginning of the created PDF instead of left next to their corresponding
text lines. I think you should talk to the creator of the documents and ask
them to try printing as PDF instead of saving or exporting as PDF to see if
that creates the desired results.

Alan Lemly

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kelby
carlson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each
of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe,
frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have
to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem,
but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it
takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


Dean Martineau <topdot@...>
 

No, Word just opens the document, but generally does it very well. I would wonder if it handles the line numbers better than Adobe, but I don't have a document of this sort to test. If you'd like to send me one, which I assume may be difficult because of confidentiality, you can send it to me at topdot@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:40 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers


I don't think you'd get any choice for reading order if you sent the
document to word. Probably the best choice for this situation would be
to use k1000 to recognize the pdf using the omnipage engine with column
identification disabled.



On 6/16/2020 09:07, Dean Martineau wrote:
I wonder what would happen if you sent that PDF to Word, assuming you're running something modern, Microsoft 365 for instance. Now I seldom open PDF's in Adobe. I have Word in my SendTo folder, so when I encounter a PDF, in the context menu I hit N for SendTo, W for Word and the PDF opens very readably in Word. As I'm writing, I don't know why I don't just change the default for PdF to Word. Just a thought.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

When you open the document, does adobe not ask you what reading order
you'd prefer? If so, have you tried the various options? If not, maybe
you should check in the edit menu for the accessibility assistant and
turn the reading order feature back on. May not help, but this sounds
like what the feature should have been meant for.





On 6/15/2020 19:56, kelby carlson wrote:
In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.





kelby carlson
 

I did try this, but got the same results no matter what reading option I chose.

On Jun 16, 2020, at 3:23 AM, CJ &AA MAY <chrisalismay@...> wrote:

I have a similar problem with the lyrics sent to me by Rock Choir, so a
solution would be much appreciated.
Alison


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: 16 June 2020 01:56
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each
of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe,
frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have
to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem,
but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it
takes me longer to read these documents than it should.






kelby carlson
 

Unfortunately my office doesn't have control over how these get printed, so I doubt I can change that. I also don't have Kurzweil 1000 on my work computer; I just have Abbyy FineReader. I've tried to look for an option to disable column identification, but haven't found it.

On Jun 16, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Alan Lemly <@walemly> wrote:

Kelby,

I'm doubtful there is anything JAWS can do to make your document more
readable. It sounds as if whoever created the document was using Microsoft
Word to number the lines and when they saved it as a PDF file, the line
numbers were treated as a separate object from the text and placed at the
beginning of the created PDF instead of left next to their corresponding
text lines. I think you should talk to the creator of the documents and ask
them to try printing as PDF instead of saving or exporting as PDF to see if
that creates the desired results.

Alan Lemly

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kelby
carlson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each
of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe,
frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have
to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem,
but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it
takes me longer to read these documents than it should.





Van Lant, Robin
 

Kelby,
I have an idea for you to try. When the PDF opens, could you hit "J" to open the jump to line dialog box. It might take a bit of trial to figure out what value to enter to skip past the numbers you are hearing at the beginning, but maybe it would save you the arrowing down. If each page has roughly the same number of lines on it, the value you enter would likely be the same for each document or page. Just an idea that I cannot test.

Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

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Adrian Spratt
 

Clever.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 3:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

Kelby,
I have an idea for you to try. When the PDF opens, could you hit "J" to open the jump to line dialog box. It might take a bit of trial to figure out what value to enter to skip past the numbers you are hearing at the beginning, but maybe it would save you the arrowing down. If each page has roughly the same number of lines on it, the value you enter would likely be the same for each document or page. Just an idea that I cannot test.

Robin





-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Reading PDF Documents with Line Numbers

In my work, I frequently have to read transcripts of proceeding where each of the lines is numbered. When I open a transcript like this in Adobe, frequently all of the line numbers will be at the top of the page and I have to keep arrowing down to get to the text. I know this is a unique problem, but is there anything JAWS can do that will help with this? Right now it takes me longer to read these documents than it should.


This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114

If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key, send an email to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


 

If one opens a PDF file using MS-Word, you can use the advanced find feature to find the first non-numeric character in the document.

1. Once the document is open in Word, hit ALT+H,FD,A to open the advanced search (AKA Find and Replace) dialog, you will only be using the Find tab, not replace, and the Find tab is what should open by default.

2. The first time you open the dialog in Word, if you have started Word afresh, you will not be showing the group of checkboxes you need to have access to.  There is a More button, activate it, or press ALT+M.  Either method gets the advanced find option checkboxes visible and accessible.  Once you have done this, and step 3, if you have not closed MS-Word, when you bring up the advanced find dialog again the Use Wildcards checkbox will remain checked.  But if you close word, and open it again, you will have to repeat this step and step 3.

3. Navigate to the Use wildcards checkbox, and check it, or use ALT+U to toggle it on. 

4. Navigate back to the Find what edit box, or hit ALT+N to throw focus there.   In that box, enter exactly what follows, starting with the open square bracket to the end of th the line:  [a-z][A-Z]

5. Navigate to the Find Next button, and activate it, or use ALT+F to activate it.  This should take you to the first lowercase or uppercase character in the document, bypassing all numeric characters that occur prior to it.

6. Close the dialog, and you should have focus on that first letter in the first line of words in your converted PDF.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss