moderated Outlook.com and Groups.io - Bounce messages are not about Outlook.com


 

This message may get long, but I'm going to describe what's going on as best I can.  But the long and the short of it is that the bounce messages members have been receiving that just so happened to be using an outlook.com address are not, in all probability, connected to that at all.

First, it's important to note that virtually all of the blind-tech-centric groups are NOT what Groups.io calls a restricted group.  When you send a subscribe message, you are instantly accepted for membership in the group without any need for the group owner's or moderator's manual intervention to approve your membership.  Your first message is, by groups.io default, held for review by the group owner or moderator before subsequent messages can post.

A very great many (not all, but many) non-blind-tech-centric groups are, in fact, restricted groups where, after sending the subscribe message, and after replying to the confirm message, you are still not a member of the group you are attempting to subscribe to until and unless someone in group administration approves you for membership.  If you attempt to send any message to the group prior to your membership in the group being approved, you will receive a bounce message that, by all appearances, makes it seem as though the groups.io posting address for the group you're trying to send a message to does not exist.  Here is a snippet of what I got back, twice, when attempting to send a message to a testing group, that was a restricted group, before my membership was approved:

--------------------------------------------

Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:

main@shalstest.groups.io (main@shalstest.groups.io)
Your message couldn't be delivered. When Office 365 tried to send the message, the external email server returned the error below.
.
.
.

Diagnostic information for administrators:

Generating server: CH2PR19MB3989.namprd19.prod.outlook.com

main@shalstest.groups.io
Remote Server returned '550 5.0.350 Remote server returned an error -> 500 Your subscription has not yet been approved.'
--------------------------------------------

The actual reason for the bounce message is buried way, way, way further down in the administrator diagnostic information:  
Your subscription has not yet been approved.

Once your membership is approved, you then get whatever welcome message that group's administration has set up to go out for new members. 

After you have received the welcome message, you will no longer get the bounce messages like the one noted above.  But your first message will still be held for review and no other messages will go out to the group if you send them until the group administration has reviewed and released your first one.

So, if you get a bounce message, it makes sense to search it for the phrase, Diagnostic information for administrators, and then review a few of the lines below that line.  Right after the group's main address you should hit the line that tells you precisely why you got the bounce message.

This is likely to remain the same for the foreseeable future, and if you're joining a lot of groups you cannot presume that they're all unrestricted groups like most of the blind-tech-centric groups are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


Madison Martin
 

Okay, so what about for groups that you’re already a member of and your message doesn’t go through what should you do?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: December 23, 2021 4:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Outlook.com and Groups.io - Bounce messages are not about Outlook.com

 

This message may get long, but I'm going to describe what's going on as best I can.  But the long and the short of it is that the bounce messages members have been receiving that just so happened to be using an outlook.com address are not, in all probability, connected to that at all.

First, it's important to note that virtually all of the blind-tech-centric groups are NOT what Groups.io calls a restricted group.  When you send a subscribe message, you are instantly accepted for membership in the group without any need for the group owner's or moderator's manual intervention to approve your membership.  Your first message is, by groups.io default, held for review by the group owner or moderator before subsequent messages can post.

A very great many (not all, but many) non-blind-tech-centric groups are, in fact, restricted groups where, after sending the subscribe message, and after replying to the confirm message, you are still not a member of the group you are attempting to subscribe to until and unless someone in group administration approves you for membership.  If you attempt to send any message to the group prior to your membership in the group being approved, you will receive a bounce message that, by all appearances, makes it seem as though the groups.io posting address for the group you're trying to send a message to does not exist.  Here is a snippet of what I got back, twice, when attempting to send a message to a testing group, that was a restricted group, before my membership was approved:

--------------------------------------------

Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:

main@shalstest.groups.io (main@shalstest.groups.io)
Your message couldn't be delivered. When Office 365 tried to send the message, the external email server returned the error below.
.
.
.

Diagnostic information for administrators:

Generating server: CH2PR19MB3989.namprd19.prod.outlook.com

main@shalstest.groups.io
Remote Server returned '550 5.0.350 Remote server returned an error -> 500 Your subscription has not yet been approved.'
--------------------------------------------

The actual reason for the bounce message is buried way, way, way further down in the administrator diagnostic information:  
Your subscription has not yet been approved.

Once your membership is approved, you then get whatever welcome message that group's administration has set up to go out for new members. 

After you have received the welcome message, you will no longer get the bounce messages like the one noted above.  But your first message will still be held for review and no other messages will go out to the group if you send them until the group administration has reviewed and released your first one.

So, if you get a bounce message, it makes sense to search it for the phrase, 
Diagnostic information for administrators, and then review a few of the lines below that line.  Right after the group's main address you should hit the line that tells you precisely why you got the bounce message.

This is likely to remain the same for the foreseeable future, and if you're joining a lot of groups you cannot presume that they're all unrestricted groups like most of the blind-tech-centric groups are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


 

On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 06:03 PM, Madison Martin wrote:
Okay, so what about for groups that you’re already a member of and your message doesn’t go through what should you do?
-
Contact the group owner.

As a group admin, I have noticed that you have both subscribed/unsubscribed and used the web to change your email address on multiple occasons on one of the groups for which I'm an admin.  You need to make certain you are still a member of the group.  If you are, then the group owner needs to check what's going on in the activity logs when you send a message, as something is logged whether that message is accepted or refused.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


 

One additional piece of information, that is specific to Outlook.com, is this, from another group administrator responding to my complaint that the reason for the bounce is not obvious:

It would be if Outlook didn't insert all that extra crap up front.  Other email services don't add it, so the error is right at the top.

So all the gobbledy-gook that Outlook inserts ahead of the line that starts with, "Diagnostic information," are only Outlook, and they make the situation more confusing, not less.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


bushyx008@...
 

Hi Brian and thanks for your reply.

Using an email account setup in outlook.com, I have been subscribed to both of these groups.io lists for years so it is not the result of the situation you describe. Mail from these lists are still being received by my outlook.com account but it is impossible to send messages to the list as they are returned as undeliverable.
As this topic is not a fit one for the list, could you please send any comments etc to me off list.
Thanks
Tom

On 24/12/2021 8:54 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
This message may get long, but I'm going to describe what's going on as best I can.  But the long and the short of it is that the bounce messages members have been receiving that just so happened to be using an outlook.com address are not, in all probability, connected to that at all.
First, it's important to note that virtually all of the blind-tech-centric groups are NOT what Groups.io calls a restricted group.  When you send a subscribe message, you are instantly accepted for membership in the group without any need for the group owner's or moderator's manual intervention to approve your membership.  Your first message is, by groups.io default, held for review by the group owner or moderator before subsequent messages can post.
A very great many (not all, but many) non-blind-tech-centric groups are, in fact, restricted groups where, after sending the subscribe message, and after replying to the confirm message, you are still not a member of the group you are attempting to subscribe to until and unless someone in group administration approves you for membership.  If you attempt to send any message to the group prior to your membership in the group being approved, you will receive a bounce message that, by all appearances, makes it seem as though the groups.io posting address for the group you're trying to send a message to does not exist.  Here is a snippet of what I got back, twice, when attempting to send a message to a testing group, that was a restricted group, before my membership was approved:
--------------------------------------------
*Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:*
main@shalstest.groups.io (main@shalstest.groups.io) <mailto:main@shalstest.groups.io>
Your message couldn't be delivered. When Office 365 tried to send the message, the external email server returned the error below.
.
.
.
*Diagnostic information for administrators:*
Generating server: CH2PR19MB3989.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
main@shalstest.groups.io <mailto:main@shalstest.groups.io>
Remote Server returned '550 5.0.350 Remote server returned an error -> 500 Your subscription has not yet been approved.'
--------------------------------------------
The actual reason for the bounce message is buried way, way, way further down in the administrator diagnostic information: Your subscription has not yet been approved.
Once your membership is approved, you then get whatever welcome message that group's administration has set up to go out for new members.
After you have received the welcome message, you will no longer get the bounce messages like the one noted above.  But your first message will still be held for review and no other messages will go out to the group if you send them until the group administration has reviewed and released your first one.
So, if you get a bounce message, it makes sense to search it for the phrase, /*Diagnostic information for administrators*/, and then review a few of the lines below that line.  Right after the group's main address you should hit the line that tells you precisely why you got the bounce message.
This is likely to remain the same for the foreseeable future, and if you're joining a lot of groups you cannot presume that they're all unrestricted groups like most of the blind-tech-centric groups are.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043
*/Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth./*
~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in /New York Times/ article, /How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States/ <https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html>/,/September 23, 2019