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Moderated Managing the cognitive load of listening
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John cooper
Have to agree with most. I’ve been using JAWS for around thee 25’ish years and I’ve really only added names into the dictionary, living in Scotland this can be a necessary action. I find, on the whole, that JAWS is no great annoyance . I think not having it would be worse!
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On 18 Sep 2022, at 00:40, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:
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Mark
Soronel, I'm intrigued by your use of the dictionary. Do you use it the usual way to replace words with phonetic ones or have you come up with clever uses? Do you remove or replace phrases? Do you every use sounds?
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Maria Campbell
Me too.
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Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... On 9/17/2022 5:46 PM, Loy wrote:
I am very comfortable with Eloquence, I have been using it for about 20 years. I have tried other voices but always come back to Eloquence. |
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Lori Lynn
I agree, I don't do most of that and I've been a JAWS user since the early 90s. I use to add a lot of words to the dictionary. I had a job that used a large amount of abbreviations that drove me nuts. Now that I'm retired and do what I want on my computer I no longer have the need.
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Lori Lynn -----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 5:05 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening Everyone is different. I have been using JAWS for nine years and other than adding maybe three dozen words that Eloquence mispronounces to the default dictionary and adjusting how Eloquence speaks as I get used to it, and adjusting a few other settings in JAWS, I haven't felt the need to do most of those things you mention. Gene... the On 9/17/2022 2:51 PM, Mark wrote: What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes |
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Gene Warner
Wow! It sounds like you spend more time putting words into dictionaries, creating voice profiles, and adjusting the settings than you do actually using JAWS. I think that maybe you are way over thinking it.
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But at the end of the day, to each their own. Gene... On 9/17/2022 3:38 PM, Soronel Haetir wrote:
I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is |
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Gene Warner
Everyone is different.
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I have been using JAWS for nine years and other than adding maybe three dozen words that Eloquence mispronounces to the default dictionary and adjusting how Eloquence speaks as I get used to it, and adjusting a few other settings in JAWS, I haven't felt the need to do most of those things you mention. Gene... the On 9/17/2022 2:51 PM, Mark wrote:
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users? Here are a few that come to mind: |
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Loy
I am very comfortable with Eloquence, I have been using it for about 20 years. I have tried other voices but always come back to Eloquence.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening Mark |
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Mike Pietruk
That's a great list you make; all of what you raise makes the use of the
program itself faster and easier to use -- and many of the points you raise sadly get overlooked. Personally, I don't find the use of a screen reader fatiguing. And the vast majority of what I've learned about any screen reader has been by trial and error; No 2 people use JAWS in the same way and for the same purposes. The fatigue, if that's what we're gonna call it, comes when one gets overwhelmed by the program and gets afraid to try things as they fear making irrepairable and unforgiving erros. Backing their ENU directory allows one that comfort level to return to a previous use time should their tryings are errors. Perhaps if one finds the use of a screen reader tiring, it may also be to the voice or voices they use requiring too much comprehension. If I would start thinking that the use of JAWS is fatiguing, my first inclination would be to consider the voices I am using as demanding too much of my attention. |
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Adrian Spratt
Soronel, I'm guessing Mark was exhibiting a little humor when he closed with control key. As you know, that's the key that shuts JAWS up!
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Mark, I think you raise an interesting subject. It's clear you're an experienced JAWS user, and so what I think you're proposing is that people describe how they avoid listener fatigue, or what you call cognitive fatigue due to listening. In addition to the suggestions you and Soronel discuss, ones that come right away to my mind include: navigation commands to navigate webpages Placemarkers that minimize searching around familiar webpages Quick keys with insert-z in formatted Word documents to move from heading to heading Links lists with insert-F7 both to find desired links quickly and to maximize the likelihood that the links will work First-letter navigation in lists Insert-F4 followed by enter. (This is my little joke. It truly shuts up JAWS!) Note: Read "JAWS key" when I write "insert." -----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:38 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop, file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'. I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones. Not sure what you were asking about with "control key". On 9/17/22, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote: What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes -- Soronel Haetir soronel.haetir@... |
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Mike Pietruk
Soronel
it sounds as if, with all those dictionaries, you spend as much time doing that as actually using JAWS. If I were new at this -- I've been using screen readers for nearly 4 decades -- reading your msg would make run, not walk away, from JAWS. Why, someone might ask? If I have to do all that to get a program to work for me, I think I might be better off with something simpler. When getting into Windows and away from the Apple IIe in the 1990s, I chose Window-Eyes as I was scared away by the seemingly complex JAWS licensing. Frankly, I was mistaken as I later discovered when Window-Eyes was bought out, but the straightforwardness of installing WE had a newby to Windows far more comfortable. One can do massive amounts of customizing in Jaws -- as was in Window-Eyes -- but the beauty of JAWS also is that it can work quite well in its basic customization. What I suggest to the original questioner is don't overthink this. First, learn the program and then figure out if you really have to do a lot of changes. And keep copies of your ENU directory so you can easily revert to another JFW set up if your playing around messes things up. |
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Mike Pietruk
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS question; but one using a screen reader in general. I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is play around and see what you are most comfortable with. Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking all of this. Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates. Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different voice for different things. In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a way to deal with the pc screen. Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but that's me. |
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Soronel Haetir
I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is
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dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop, file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'. I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones. Not sure what you were asking about with "control key". On 9/17/22, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from --
Soronel Haetir soronel.haetir@... |
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Mark
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users? Here are a few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously Assign different voices to different speech contexts Use the dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying Customize speech and sound schemes Switch between speech and sound schemes Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible. Turn of tutor messages Audio ducking Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears Control key |
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