moderated List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
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Ken Chernack
Hi. Who is James, the signer of the following rules email? Is he the phantom moderator? I believe that the narrative of this email has not been updated for some time and is just automatically sent out monthly on the first day.
Have you noticed the drop off of activity in this discussion list since last week? Is the Jaws moderated list the place to use for a better quality discussion?
What is the address of that and other pertinent discussion lists? I know that they have been mentioned in the past, but it now seems necessary to switch to actively moderated lists for better quality answers that are focused on a subject/topic.
Thanks. Ken
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of main@jfw.groups.io Calendar
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 12:00 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Now: List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
List Rules When: Description: http://groups.io/g/jfw/wiki/List-Policies
**List Policies** 1: Keep it clean. We're a family list, and there are people here who probably don't want to hear everything *exactly* that's running through your head. If you wouldn't see it on TV, it doesn't belong in a post to the list. If you're not sure, email the administration before you post it to the list. Otherwise, you stand to see your posts moderated. 2: Stay on topic. We're a JFW-oriented list. That said, anything related to JFW, its functionality with programs etc is acceptable. If it doesn't have to do with JFW, it doesn't belong on the list. This includes, but isn't limited to, talk of other screen readers such as Window Eyes. 3: Listen to, and respect, the wishes of the admins/moderators. If you're asked by an admin or moderator to drop a subject, or take something to private emails (in the instance of two people carrying on a thread list-wide), please do so. If the subject is changed on a thread by an admin or moderator, it will be explained why in the email sent out with it. Please don't continue replying to the old subject. 4: Don't ask over the list for a position on the list administration. If you'd like to help out, it's of course welcome, but address the request to do so to the admin team, otherwise it'll be ignored. Requests are always welcome, whether help is being looked for or not. When help is needed, a post will be made to the list. The requests already received will be kept in mind. 5: Keep flaming to a minimum. This is not limited to flaming of each other, but goes beyond that, to flaming of products, opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc. Constructive criticism never hurts. Flame wars, especially public ones, both drive people from this list and are unwelcome here. either take the problem to private emails, or report the problem to list administration. 6. Respect the opinions and views of others. This is *very* important in any environment, most especially an online environment where the only gage one has on a person is what that person puts to writing. If you come off as hostile in your posting, whether you intended to or not, people will take it as such. Online, "face value" means just that. People make mistakes, people don't always have access to the same information you do. For that matter, people don't always have the same experience you do. If you know how someone can solve their problem, great. Suggest it to them and/or the list. Do *not* proceed to tell someone, on or off list, that they have no business posting. Repeat offenders of this particular rule will be banned for a week to 30 days, depending on the severity. Serious problems will be banned permanently. As always, if there are problems or questions with regards these policies, don't hesitate to send them off-list to jfw+owner@groups.io James,
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Gerald Levy
Unfortunatley, the owner/moderator of this list has apparently given up his moderation duties and allowed the list to become a more general discussion forum where almost anything goes and rules are not strictly enforced. If you want to join the other JAWS list, which is more tightly moderated and kept on topic most of the time, send a blank message to:
Gerald
On 11/12/2021 10:45 AM, Ken Chernack
via groups.io wrote:
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Glenn / Lenny
Why do some folks concern themselves with which
list is best?
If there is low traffic on a list, why unsubscribe
from it?
The list traffic may pick up later.
If it is low traffic, then there is no bother from
being a member and one can just go with it.
I've never understood people leaving a low traffic
list for that reason.
On the other hand, I do understand people wanting
to leave a high traffic list.
So let sleeping dogs lie in my
opinion.
And the list will be there if you do need
it.
The high traffic lists tend to get into flaming
wars, and those are usually the over moderated ones too.
I've noticed on the over moderated Jaws list,
people will have general windows questions, or about a program, but feel as
though they have to include how to do something with Jaws, even though it is not
really a Jaws question, just to have the question be considered a Jaws
question.
That is the result of over moderation.
Glenn
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On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
- No, it's not. It's the result of not thinking about what you're asking about. On every screen reader group I've participated in there are members who think that a question about some given piece of software, with the phrase "with {insert screen reader name here}," makes it a screen reader related question. It isn't. If you want to know the keyboard shortcuts or other information about an MS-Office program, web browser, media player, and the list goes on and on that's an entirely separate issue from how to use any given screen reader on top of it. It is incumbent on those asking questions to actually think about what it is, really, the question pertains to. Tacking on, "with {insert screen reader name here}," doesn't magically make it about the screen reader. The question, "How do I turn on bold formatting on selected text in MS-Word with JAWS?," is not, in any way, shape, or form, about JAWS. It's about Word and a keyboard shortcut it uses regardless of whether a screen reader is involved or not. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected. ~ William Plomer
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Dan Longmore
Ken, The activity on any list ebbs and flows. The “windows” list is also down the last few days. This list offers many quality, effective, answers. Don’t compare lists for there are too many variables. The moderator of this list does well. Many lists use auto e-mails for 1st of the month.
Dan
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Chernack via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 10:45 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
Hi. Who is James, the signer of the following rules email? Is he the phantom moderator? I believe that the narrative of this email has not been updated for some time and is just automatically sent out monthly on the first day.
Have you noticed the drop off of activity in this discussion list since last week? Is the Jaws moderated list the place to use for a better quality discussion?
What is the address of that and other pertinent discussion lists? I know that they have been mentioned in the past, but it now seems necessary to switch to actively moderated lists for better quality answers that are focused on a subject/topic.
Thanks. Ken
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of main@jfw.groups.io Calendar
List Rules When: Description: http://groups.io/g/jfw/wiki/List-Policies
**List Policies** 1: Keep it clean. We're a family list, and there are people here who probably don't want to hear everything *exactly* that's running through your head. If you wouldn't see it on TV, it doesn't belong in a post to the list. If you're not sure, email the administration before you post it to the list. Otherwise, you stand to see your posts moderated. 2: Stay on topic. We're a JFW-oriented list. That said, anything related to JFW, its functionality with programs etc is acceptable. If it doesn't have to do with JFW, it doesn't belong on the list. This includes, but isn't limited to, talk of other screen readers such as Window Eyes. 3: Listen to, and respect, the wishes of the admins/moderators. If you're asked by an admin or moderator to drop a subject, or take something to private emails (in the instance of two people carrying on a thread list-wide), please do so. If the subject is changed on a thread by an admin or moderator, it will be explained why in the email sent out with it. Please don't continue replying to the old subject. 4: Don't ask over the list for a position on the list administration. If you'd like to help out, it's of course welcome, but address the request to do so to the admin team, otherwise it'll be ignored. Requests are always welcome, whether help is being looked for or not. When help is needed, a post will be made to the list. The requests already received will be kept in mind. 5: Keep flaming to a minimum. This is not limited to flaming of each other, but goes beyond that, to flaming of products, opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc. Constructive criticism never hurts. Flame wars, especially public ones, both drive people from this list and are unwelcome here. either take the problem to private emails, or report the problem to list administration. 6. Respect the opinions and views of others. This is *very* important in any environment, most especially an online environment where the only gage one has on a person is what that person puts to writing. If you come off as hostile in your posting, whether you intended to or not, people will take it as such. Online, "face value" means just that. People make mistakes, people don't always have access to the same information you do. For that matter, people don't always have the same experience you do. If you know how someone can solve their problem, great. Suggest it to them and/or the list. Do *not* proceed to tell someone, on or off list, that they have no business posting. Repeat offenders of this particular rule will be banned for a week to 30 days, depending on the severity. Serious problems will be banned permanently. As always, if there are problems or questions with regards these policies, don't hesitate to send them off-list to jfw+owner@groups.io James,
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Chris
Maybe you should follow the rules , especially rule 2.
From: Ken Chernack via groups.io
Sent: 12 November 2021 15:45 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
Hi. Who is James, the signer of the following rules email? Is he the phantom moderator? I believe that the narrative of this email has not been updated for some time and is just automatically sent out monthly on the first day.
Have you noticed the drop off of activity in this discussion list since last week? Is the Jaws moderated list the place to use for a better quality discussion?
What is the address of that and other pertinent discussion lists? I know that they have been mentioned in the past, but it now seems necessary to switch to actively moderated lists for better quality answers that are focused on a subject/topic.
Thanks. Ken
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of main@jfw.groups.io Calendar
List Rules When: Description: http://groups.io/g/jfw/wiki/List-Policies
**List Policies** 1: Keep it clean. We're a family list, and there are people here who probably don't want to hear everything *exactly* that's running through your head. If you wouldn't see it on TV, it doesn't belong in a post to the list. If you're not sure, email the administration before you post it to the list. Otherwise, you stand to see your posts moderated. 2: Stay on topic. We're a JFW-oriented list. That said, anything related to JFW, its functionality with programs etc is acceptable. If it doesn't have to do with JFW, it doesn't belong on the list. This includes, but isn't limited to, talk of other screen readers such as Window Eyes. 3: Listen to, and respect, the wishes of the admins/moderators. If you're asked by an admin or moderator to drop a subject, or take something to private emails (in the instance of two people carrying on a thread list-wide), please do so. If the subject is changed on a thread by an admin or moderator, it will be explained why in the email sent out with it. Please don't continue replying to the old subject. 4: Don't ask over the list for a position on the list administration. If you'd like to help out, it's of course welcome, but address the request to do so to the admin team, otherwise it'll be ignored. Requests are always welcome, whether help is being looked for or not. When help is needed, a post will be made to the list. The requests already received will be kept in mind. 5: Keep flaming to a minimum. This is not limited to flaming of each other, but goes beyond that, to flaming of products, opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc. Constructive criticism never hurts. Flame wars, especially public ones, both drive people from this list and are unwelcome here. either take the problem to private emails, or report the problem to list administration. 6. Respect the opinions and views of others. This is *very* important in any environment, most especially an online environment where the only gage one has on a person is what that person puts to writing. If you come off as hostile in your posting, whether you intended to or not, people will take it as such. Online, "face value" means just that. People make mistakes, people don't always have access to the same information you do. For that matter, people don't always have the same experience you do. If you know how someone can solve their problem, great. Suggest it to them and/or the list. Do *not* proceed to tell someone, on or off list, that they have no business posting. Repeat offenders of this particular rule will be banned for a week to 30 days, depending on the severity. Serious problems will be banned permanently. As always, if there are problems or questions with regards these policies, don't hesitate to send them off-list to jfw+owner@groups.io James,
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David Diamond
Definitely rule # 1 needs to be updated or rephrased. Especially since pretty much everything goes on TV, vulgar speech, loose morals etc. I won’t continue this thought so, don’t worry, owner or moderators.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
Sent: November 12, 2021 10:14 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
Maybe you should follow the rules , especially rule 2.
From: Ken Chernack via groups.io
Hi. Who is James, the signer of the following rules email? Is he the phantom moderator? I believe that the narrative of this email has not been updated for some time and is just automatically sent out monthly on the first day.
Have you noticed the drop off of activity in this discussion list since last week? Is the Jaws moderated list the place to use for a better quality discussion?
What is the address of that and other pertinent discussion lists? I know that they have been mentioned in the past, but it now seems necessary to switch to actively moderated lists for better quality answers that are focused on a subject/topic.
Thanks. Ken
From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of main@jfw.groups.io Calendar
List Rules When: Description: http://groups.io/g/jfw/wiki/List-Policies
**List Policies** 1: Keep it clean. We're a family list, and there are people here who probably don't want to hear everything *exactly* that's running through your head. If you wouldn't see it on TV, it doesn't belong in a post to the list. If you're not sure, email the administration before you post it to the list. Otherwise, you stand to see your posts moderated. 2: Stay on topic. We're a JFW-oriented list. That said, anything related to JFW, its functionality with programs etc is acceptable. If it doesn't have to do with JFW, it doesn't belong on the list. This includes, but isn't limited to, talk of other screen readers such as Window Eyes. 3: Listen to, and respect, the wishes of the admins/moderators. If you're asked by an admin or moderator to drop a subject, or take something to private emails (in the instance of two people carrying on a thread list-wide), please do so. If the subject is changed on a thread by an admin or moderator, it will be explained why in the email sent out with it. Please don't continue replying to the old subject. 4: Don't ask over the list for a position on the list administration. If you'd like to help out, it's of course welcome, but address the request to do so to the admin team, otherwise it'll be ignored. Requests are always welcome, whether help is being looked for or not. When help is needed, a post will be made to the list. The requests already received will be kept in mind. 5: Keep flaming to a minimum. This is not limited to flaming of each other, but goes beyond that, to flaming of products, opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc. Constructive criticism never hurts. Flame wars, especially public ones, both drive people from this list and are unwelcome here. either take the problem to private emails, or report the problem to list administration. 6. Respect the opinions and views of others. This is *very* important in any environment, most especially an online environment where the only gage one has on a person is what that person puts to writing. If you come off as hostile in your posting, whether you intended to or not, people will take it as such. Online, "face value" means just that. People make mistakes, people don't always have access to the same information you do. For that matter, people don't always have the same experience you do. If you know how someone can solve their problem, great. Suggest it to them and/or the list. Do *not* proceed to tell someone, on or off list, that they have no business posting. Repeat offenders of this particular rule will be banned for a week to 30 days, depending on the severity. Serious problems will be banned permanently. As always, if there are problems or questions with regards these policies, don't hesitate to send them off-list to jfw+owner@groups.io James,
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David Diamond
It is never no traffic on a group that makes me leave, it is primarily heavy handed moderation of a mod that seems to be on a Power trip. Or, on one group, the inflammatory thread was dying out and the moderator inadvertently threw gas on the smoldering embers. I left that group, I couldn’t stand the racist and prejudicial comments from group members.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: November 12, 2021 8:51 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
Ken, The activity on any list ebbs and flows. The “windows” list is also down the last few days. This list offers many quality, effective, answers. Don’t compare lists for there are too many variables. The moderator of this list does well. Many lists use auto e-mails for 1st of the month.
Dan From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ken Chernack via groups.io
Hi. Who is James, the signer of the following rules email? Is he the phantom moderator? I believe that the narrative of this email has not been updated for some time and is just automatically sent out monthly on the first day.
Have you noticed the drop off of activity in this discussion list since last week? Is the Jaws moderated list the place to use for a better quality discussion?
What is the address of that and other pertinent discussion lists? I know that they have been mentioned in the past, but it now seems necessary to switch to actively moderated lists for better quality answers that are focused on a subject/topic.
Thanks. Ken
From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of main@jfw.groups.io Calendar
List Rules When: Description: http://groups.io/g/jfw/wiki/List-Policies
**List Policies** 1: Keep it clean. We're a family list, and there are people here who probably don't want to hear everything *exactly* that's running through your head. If you wouldn't see it on TV, it doesn't belong in a post to the list. If you're not sure, email the administration before you post it to the list. Otherwise, you stand to see your posts moderated. 2: Stay on topic. We're a JFW-oriented list. That said, anything related to JFW, its functionality with programs etc is acceptable. If it doesn't have to do with JFW, it doesn't belong on the list. This includes, but isn't limited to, talk of other screen readers such as Window Eyes. 3: Listen to, and respect, the wishes of the admins/moderators. If you're asked by an admin or moderator to drop a subject, or take something to private emails (in the instance of two people carrying on a thread list-wide), please do so. If the subject is changed on a thread by an admin or moderator, it will be explained why in the email sent out with it. Please don't continue replying to the old subject. 4: Don't ask over the list for a position on the list administration. If you'd like to help out, it's of course welcome, but address the request to do so to the admin team, otherwise it'll be ignored. Requests are always welcome, whether help is being looked for or not. When help is needed, a post will be made to the list. The requests already received will be kept in mind. 5: Keep flaming to a minimum. This is not limited to flaming of each other, but goes beyond that, to flaming of products, opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc. Constructive criticism never hurts. Flame wars, especially public ones, both drive people from this list and are unwelcome here. either take the problem to private emails, or report the problem to list administration. 6. Respect the opinions and views of others. This is *very* important in any environment, most especially an online environment where the only gage one has on a person is what that person puts to writing. If you come off as hostile in your posting, whether you intended to or not, people will take it as such. Online, "face value" means just that. People make mistakes, people don't always have access to the same information you do. For that matter, people don't always have the same experience you do. If you know how someone can solve their problem, great. Suggest it to them and/or the list. Do *not* proceed to tell someone, on or off list, that they have no business posting. Repeat offenders of this particular rule will be banned for a week to 30 days, depending on the severity. Serious problems will be banned permanently. As always, if there are problems or questions with regards these policies, don't hesitate to send them off-list to jfw+owner@groups.io James,
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David Diamond
The question, "How do I turn on bold formatting on selected text in MS-Word with JAWS?," is not, in any way, shape, or form, about JAWS. It's about Word and a keyboard shortcut it uses regardless of whether a screen reader is involved or not. Ah, however, I’ve lost track of how often I’ve heard the term, “That has nothing to do with JAWS, it is a windows command.” I did not know that, so was glad for the correction. Obviously if I did not know something, I can hardly be faulted. Smile. The one thing I have learned is there are several ways to get to the home screen, as they say, all roads lead to Rome.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 12, 2021 8:42 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: List Rules - 11/01/2021 #cal-notice
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected. ~ William Plomer
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On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 10:53 PM, David Diamond wrote:
Ah, however, I’ve lost track of how often I’ve heard the term, “That has nothing to do with JAWS, it is a windows command.” I did not know that, so was glad for the correction. Obviously if I did not know something, I can hardly be faulted.- David, Of course, that can happen. But I chose the example I did for a reason. Have you ever known of a screen reader command, and I mean exactly that, which handles text formatting? I've never encountered one, and with a few moments' thought anyone formulating that sort of question would likely realize it, too. I do not presume that the members of any of these groups is not capable of pausing, for a moment, and reflecting upon what area their question is likely about. And in almost all cases it's one of three categories: The screen reader, Windows, or a given application program. And it's pretty obvious in the majority of cases which is really being asked about. The problem is that many don't want to have to think about exactly what it is they're asking about. That's a problem, and the following quotation gives a clear indication of why: Most problems precisely defined are already partially solved. ~ Harry Lorayne, Memory Makes Money --Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected. ~ William Plomer
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