Amen Maria! I totally agree! I'm finding that IE 11 continually freezes and
crashes a lot lately with Jaws... I think it's with both Jaws 17 and 18
though. I'd much rather have VFO work on these types of issues instead of
things like having Jaws speak while moving the mouse! Just my opinion!

Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria
Campbell
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 2:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

I have also been very disappointed in the increasing instability of JAWS
in Internet Explorer, especially since Edge isn't even supported at all
at this time. I would be much happier to pay for greater future
stability than for new features that I may never, or hardly ever use.


Maria Campbell
lucky1@...

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries.
Without them, humanity cannot survive.
--Dalai Lama

On 12/9/2016 2:59 PM, Gudrun Brunot wrote:

Music to my ears, Tim. Thank you for taking the time and going to the
trouble to put this in a nutshell for us. I know I've been noticing

problems

with JAWS and not been able to figure out whether it was because I wasn't
spending enough time reading the training material from FS or whether it

was

my configuration or JAWS settings. What I've had difficulty with is

websites

where I get stuck in some toolbar and told that I'm on a tab that I can't
get out of, whether I tab, control-tab, or arrow around. All I can do is
close the site and reopen it. That has been extremely irritating and
time-consuming for a long time.

Yeah for stability.



Gudrun

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who
want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to
consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At

the

time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had

not

heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but

now

it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the
sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and
although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point
that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book,
and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had
any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that

it

affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease

that

started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of

ram.

It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues
towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the
problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing

with

the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to

go

back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly
more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it
has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing
the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS
basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when
the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement

of

how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying

new

features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already

has,

JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to
accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves
to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we
valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us

to

make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford

Music to my ears, Tim. Thank you for taking the time and going to the
trouble to put this in a nutshell for us. I know I've been noticing

with JAWS and not been able to figure out whether it was because I wasn't
spending enough time reading the training material from FS or whether it

my configuration or JAWS settings. What I've had difficulty with is

where I get stuck in some toolbar and told that I'm on a tab that I can't
get out of, whether I tab, control-tab, or arrow around. All I can do is
close the site and reopen it. That has been extremely irritating and
time-consuming for a long time.

Yeah for stability.



Gudrun

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who
want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to
consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At

time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had

heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but

it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the
sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and
although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point
that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book,
and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had
any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that

affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease

started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of

It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues
towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the
problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing

the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to

back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly
more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it
has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing
the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS
basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when
the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement

how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying

features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already

JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to
accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves
to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we
valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us

make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford

Music to my ears, Tim. Thank you for taking the time and going to the
trouble to put this in a nutshell for us. I know I've been noticing

with JAWS and not been able to figure out whether it was because I wasn't
spending enough time reading the training material from FS or whether it

my configuration or JAWS settings. What I've had difficulty with is

where I get stuck in some toolbar and told that I'm on a tab that I can't
get out of, whether I tab, control-tab, or arrow around. All I can do is
close the site and reopen it. That has been extremely irritating and
time-consuming for a long time.

Yeah for stability.



Gudrun

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who
want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to
consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At

time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had

heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but

it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the
sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and
although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point
that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book,
and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had
any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that

affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease

started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of

It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues
towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the
problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing

the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to

back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly
more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it
has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing
the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS
basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when
the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement

how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying

features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already

JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to
accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves
to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we
valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us

make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford

On Dec 11, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...> wrote:

Sieghard

I will be getting a new desktop in a few days.  I’m a little nervous about learning Windows10, but I’m sure I’ll figure it out.  Just will have to get use to the new layout with Jaws.