moderated Excel titles, what am I missing?
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Gene Warner
Hi all!
I just set up a new spreadsheet and set up some cells to be row titles. I selected the cells, then right clicked, the arrowed up to the "Define name" option and named the groups of title cells to "rowtitles". I checked my settings in JAWS to be sure the "Define Name Column and Row Titles Override" is set to " On for All Files", but JAWS is not announcing the row titles. So what am I missing here? Thanks! Gene...
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Hi Gene,
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Well, since you didn't provide a lot of info regarding where the values you want to be row titles are located, it's a bit difficult to diagnose the issue. Row titles must be values located in a column such as the first 4 rows of column A. You don't need to highlight all 4 of those cells but instead place the cursor focus in the first cell which you wish to be a row title such as A1, press shift + F10 to open the context menu, then select Define name and enter RowTitles followed by the enter key to complete the name definition. When I just did this in Excel 2019 with Fusion 2020, the values in column A were all announced as I arrowed up and down through cells in column B. Alan Lemly
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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 4:55 PM To: JAWS support list <main@jfw.groups.io> Subject: Excel titles, what am I missing? Hi all! I just set up a new spreadsheet and set up some cells to be row titles. I selected the cells, then right clicked, the arrowed up to the "Define name" option and named the groups of title cells to "rowtitles". I checked my settings in JAWS to be sure the "Define Name Column and Row Titles Override" is set to " On for All Files", but JAWS is not announcing the row titles. So what am I missing here? Thanks! Gene...
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Gene Warner
Row titles are in cells A2 to A16. I highlighted the entire block of cells when I defined the name and the name I typed in was rowtitles just as you said.
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I just loaded another spreadsheet that I had done this to and was working before and it isn't working on that spreadsheet either, so I must have accidentally changed a JAWS setting or installing JAWS 2023 changed it. I am not running 2023 because I noticed some problems with it that was a deal killer for me. It is still installed, I just resetup 2022 to be the version that gets loaded when Windows starts. Thanks! Gene...
On 10/29/2022 6:38 PM, Alan Lemly wrote:
Hi Gene,
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Gene Warner
I found it! What was needed was to turn "Define Name Column and Row Titles Override" off.
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Thanks for your attempt to help, it was appreciated. Gene...
On 10/29/2022 6:52 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Row titles are in cells A2 to A16. I highlighted the entire block of cells when I defined the name and the name I typed in was rowtitles just as you said.
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Yes, that JAWS override setting needs to be off. Sorry I missed that in your first post. Glad you bent it to your will.
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Alan Lemly
On Oct 29, 2022, at 6:14 PM, Gene Warner <genewarner3@...> wrote:
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Gene Warner
Kind of embarrassing, I actually turned that on thinking that that was needed to make row and column titles work. So you might say I shot myself in the foot with that one.
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Gene...
On 10/29/2022 7:39 PM, Alan Lemly wrote:
Yes, that JAWS override setting needs to be off. Sorry I missed that in your first post. Glad you bent it to your will.
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Marty Hutchings
Hay Guys, I get JAWS to read row and cell titles by placing my cursor in the intersecting cell of the row and column and pressing Insert Alt Control R for row titles and Insert Alt Control C for column titles. HTH.
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Marty Hutchings USA
On 10/29/2022 6:53 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Kind of embarrassing, I actually turned that on thinking that that was needed to make row and column titles work. So you might say I shot myself in the foot with that one.
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Joe
The problem with the method Marty is suggesting is that it allows reading of headers on only that computer. If you send it to another computer or another person using Jaws, it has to be done again. Thus, it is not as accessible as it could be. The method that was suggested before is one that Dan Clark from Freedom Scientific taught in the old version of FS Rader. It is a shame that all those more advanced topics are no longer as accessible as before. You can download those old topics from the website, but it takes a bit of working on to have them read. The FS reader that comes with an installation of Jaws or Fusion is simply a beginners guide and really had nothing to offer the more advanced user.
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Joe Picture of Owl with Mortar Board and Computer Dr. Joe L. Todd CVRT Phone: 616.951.2142
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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Hutchings Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 8:54 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Excel titles, what am I missing? Hay Guys, I get JAWS to read row and cell titles by placing my cursor in the intersecting cell of the row and column and pressing Insert Alt Control R for row titles and Insert Alt Control C for column titles. HTH. Marty Hutchings USA On 10/29/2022 6:53 PM, Gene Warner wrote: Kind of embarrassing, I actually turned that on thinking that that was
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Gene Warner
Those methods do work because that's how I used to do them myself. But those are specific to JAWS, if you want to share your spreadsheet with other JAWS user's you not only have to give them the Excel file, but you also have to give them the JAWS file that goes with it. On top of that, if you share your file with somebody who uses a different brand of screen reader it won't work with that screen reader at all.
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The method I was trying to use is native to Excel, it gets saved as part of the Excel file and should work for any screen reader that supports reading those titles. Whenever there is a native way to do something as well as a screen reader way, I'll always choose to use the native way. Gene...
On 10/29/2022 8:54 PM, Marty Hutchings wrote:
Hay Guys, I get JAWS to read row and cell titles by placing my cursor in the intersecting cell of the row and column and pressing Insert Alt Control R for row titles and Insert Alt Control C for column titles. HTH.
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Curtis Chong
Excel Row and Column Title ReadingDefining Row and Column TitlesBefore JAWS can read the titles of cells within a spreadsheet, you must specify which columns and/or rows contain those titles. To define row titles, move to the column containing the row titles and press INSERT+CTRL+ALT+R. To define column titles, move to the row containing the column titles and press INSERT+CTRL+ALT+C. Tip: You can also press INSERT+V to use Quick Settings to define row and column titles. Alternatively, you can use Excel's naming function to specify which rows and columns contain cell titles. Using names instead of JAWS commands makes the spreadsheet accessible to any user of JAWS. There is no need to provide other users with the spreadsheet's .jsi file because the row and column title information is saved in the worksheet. This feature allows any spreadsheet author to define row and column titles without installing or using JAWS. To use names to define row and column titles, do the following:
Tip: You can define more than one row or column as a title range. For example, if you want to define rows 1 and 2 as column titles, select both rows and then assign the name "ColumnTitle" to them. JAWS can now recognize the cell as the beginning of a range of row and/or column titles. If a particular worksheet within a workbook has title rows and/or columns defined using this feature, you cannot use the standard JAWS method for defining title rows and/or columns. However, if another worksheet in the same workbook does not have row and column titles defined using the Excel naming function, you can use the standard JAWS method. Overriding Named TitlesAny JAWS user can override row and column title information provided by the spreadsheet author. To do this, press INSERT+V while you are in Excel to open Quick Settings. Select "Define Name Column and Row Titles Override" and use the SPACEBAR to cycle through the available options. Choose "On for the current file" to override named titles only in the currently open spreadsheet. Choose "On for all files" to override named titles in all spreadsheets that you open in Excel. If you want to use the row and column title information provided by the author again, choose "Off." Defining Row and Column Titles for Worksheets with Multiple RegionsYou can define individual row and/or column titles for different regions in the same workbook. To define a row and/or column title for region, you use the same procedure described in Defining Row and Column Titles to assign a specific name to a cell in the heading row and/or column. However, you must use the following procedure when defining names for row and column titles that are specific to one region:
For example, assume you have a spreadsheet with a region whose boundaries are row 1 at column A and row 9 at column N. It also has a second region with boundaries of row 10 at column C and row 14 at column D. Both regions are on worksheet 1. To define row 1 as the row containing column headers for the cells in the first region, you would assign the following name to cell A1: Changing Title Reading OptionsYou can change how JAWS reads row and column titles you have defined in the Excel options. Press INSERT+V, and then press T to move to the "Title Reading Detection" option in the Title Reading group. Next, press the SPACEBAR to choose one of the following:
Reading Columns and Rows Containing TotalsYou can indicate which columns and/or rows contain the total of values in other cells. If the spreadsheet calculates column totals, move to the row containing these totals and press CTRL+INSERT+DELETE. If the spreadsheet calculates row totals, move to the column containing these totals and press CTRL+INSERT+ENTER. Tip: You can also press INSERT+V to use Quick Settings to specify which row and column contains totals. After you have defined the row that contains column totals, you can press INSERT+DELETE to hear the total for the current column. Similarly, after you have defined the column that contains row totals, you can press INSERT+ENTER to hear the total for the current row. JAWS only reads the value displayed in the totals row/column and does not automatically perform the necessary calculations. You must use Excel to insert a formula that will calculate the total of a given range of cells. For more information on using formulas, refer to Miscellaneous Excel Hints. Reading Visible Rows and Columns of a SpreadsheetJAWS provides keystrokes to read only the portion of the spreadsheet that is visible on the screen. If Title reading is enabled, pressing these keystrokes reads the appropriate title cells followed by the visible cells' contents.
Using One Settings File for Similar Spreadsheets with Different File NamesWhen you define settings like row and column titles and totals, you may want these settings to be available for other versions of the spreadsheet that have different names. For example, suppose that you define row and column totals for a spreadsheet named Sales1.xls. This spreadsheet is updated each month, and the name is changed accordingly. Therefore, next month's spreadsheet will be named Sales2.xls and so on. However, by default, JAWS only loads settings (.jsi) files for spreadsheets with the same file name. JAWS will not use settings you defined for Sales1.xls for Sales2.xls. However, JAWS provides a feature that allows you to apply an existing settings file to a spreadsheet with a different name that is similar in design. To use this feature, open the spreadsheet in Excel, press INSERT+V, select the option "Workbook Settings," and press the SPACEBAR to choose "Best Match." JAWS searches for the closest matching settings file available and applies it to the current workbook. In the previous example, the spreadsheet Sales2.xls would use the settings file you created for Sales1.xls (excel_Sales1.xls.jsi). This feature makes it easy to apply your verbosity settings to subsequent versions of a spreadsheet without creating new a file each time the name changes.
Cordially,
Curtis Chong
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