moderated email clients


Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

I used web mail for a long time, and liked it. I could still use it, and have no problem with it.

    I started using Thunderbird in 2017, because the email service I was using at the time only worked with a client. Now, I stick with it mostly because of local storage.

On 4/5/2021 5:19 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
I think web mail is still not as good as applications myself. And I haven't seen any post from blind people saying they prefer web mail. But that's just me. Are used Thunderbird. Outlook if you like it is good.

Randy Barnett

On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:30 PM, Richard Turner <richardturner42@...> wrote:


Well, if people who are blind are choosing to use a method that requires two to three times as many keystrokes to do the same task, that is certainly their right and I say more power to them.
I just logged into gmail on the web.
Yes, it is far better than it was a few years ago.
But, using a gmail account with Outlook, means when I arrow down my inbox, I hear who it is from, the subject and the date.
That was one keypress.
If I go to the gmail web page, It takes three keystrokes to get from one subject (without knowing the sender) to get to the next message subject. The extra keystrokes are going passed the select check mark and the Star check mark.
So, this is really user preference and I want to be really clear, I am not making any value judgement that one way is better than another.
I like the way I do it is all.



Richard 
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt



On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.
-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

Yeah, it's not the late 90s or early 2000s. It's 2021, and web interfaces actually work now.

On 4/5/2021 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.
-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Steve Nutt
 

Hi Richard,

 

I agree with you.  All this G then I to go to the Inbox for example, when you can press Control+Shift+I in Outlook.

 

Brian’s mentioning webmail clients is that typical of sighted people, who don’t look deeply enough into the accessibility of them.

 

Webmail clients are sometimes accessible, but rarely efficient to use.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: 06 April 2021 00:31
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Well, if people who are blind are choosing to use a method that requires two to three times as many keystrokes to do the same task, that is certainly their right and I say more power to them.

I just logged into gmail on the web.

Yes, it is far better than it was a few years ago.

But, using a gmail account with Outlook, means when I arrow down my inbox, I hear who it is from, the subject and the date.

That was one keypress.

If I go to the gmail web page, It takes three keystrokes to get from one subject (without knowing the sender) to get to the next message subject. The extra keystrokes are going passed the select check mark and the Star check mark.

So, this is really user preference and I want to be really clear, I am not making any value judgement that one way is better than another.

I like the way I do it is all.

 

 

 

Richard 

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

 

www.turner42.com

 



On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.

-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Ken Chernack
 

Alan,

I think you should check with Jaws Help folks to see if they still support those 2010 products in the current version of Jaws.

I think their ‘no’ answer will give you a good reason to reconsider your decision.

Onward,

Ken

 

the From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 12:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Well, as long as I can still send and receive emails with Outlook 2010 and the other programs in Office 2010 Pro continue to work, I really don't care whether Microsoft supports them or not. I've been using 2010 for several years now and don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 9:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd

-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Madison Martin
 

I use Office 365 and love it!!!!!!! It’s easy to use and plus since it’s a subscription-based thing you know there will be updates so you won’t have to buy a new version of Office every couple of years.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: April 5, 2021 3:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email clients

 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions. Perhaps If you turned off the monitor and use a screenreader as we do you might get it... Or at least not come across as you do...

On 4/5/2021 10:08 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:27 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
You do realize "in a big, bold box" means nothing to blind people right?
-
Sorry, Mr. Barnett, but how it's presented generally carries some formatting weight that screen readers also pick up on.

It's the first freaking thing on the page.  If MS malformed it, that is unfortunate, but I'm not about to dig into page HTML to determine that.  When there is a big, bold notice at the outset of a page I would presume, and generally am right, that screen reader users will hear that right up front just the way I see it right up front.

So, if "that's not cool" to you that's perfectly OK with me.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:
Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.
-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

Resorting to profanity. Nice... You know what they say about people who do that...

On 4/6/2021 7:46 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:
Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.
-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:49 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:
Resorting to profanity.
-
Frankly, my dear . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Rick Mladek
 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Loy
 


Well, I still use Outlook Express and it works great for my needs and MS hasn't supported it in many years. So if Outlook 2010 still works for your needs don't worry about it not being supported.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: email clients

Well, as long as I can still send and receive emails with Outlook 2010 and the other programs in Office 2010 Pro continue to work, I really don't care whether Microsoft supports them or not. I've been using 2010 for several years now and don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 9:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd

-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:01 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:
You again believe you are above those blind
-
No, I do not.  And I do not treat individuals who happen to be blind any differently that I do those who happen to be able to see.

If the Group Owner wishes to remove me from this list, then so be it.  I doubt that you will get much support for your call for that, as your complaints are without merit.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Lee Anne Atkinson
 

Rick,

 

Honestly I have not read the entire thread of this conversation so I might be missing something.  However, I personally enjoy Brian's responses.  I find he is knowledgeable and treats those of us on the list as a peer, not talking down to us.  Sometimes a bit more research is needed before I make any decision with my computer but I find his information helpful. 

 

Again, I may have missed something in the thread.  You can always block any person, on the list or off, if you don't want to hear from them. 

 

I hope you can get your issue resolved. 

 

Lee Anne

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:02 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Don Walls
 

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.
 
Don
 

From: Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients
 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:
Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.
 
Don
 
From: Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients
 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Rick Mladek
 

The point is simple, I am and he has attacked individuals on other lists previously. Who cares what he knows. I will not accept his rudeness, attacks etc. towards any blind person no matter their knowledge. He has no right to do this and has been forced off of other groups due to his total lack of respect for anyone. No, you do not know this person and he surely should be removed from tjhis list, no matter what he believes he knows or otherwise. Do not defend those obviously guilty and if you believe you need to, then as I told him, go start your own group list for rude people and go attack one another. He went after Randy and I have no idea how you do not see this.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Walls
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Rick Mladek
 

I’m sorry Randy and all else for my needing to step up and have this person stop his antics.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


val and david paul <valanddavidp@...>
 

Hi Rick!

At least your willing to stand up and be counted!

On 06/04/2021 17:08, Rick Mladek wrote:

I’m sorry Randy and all else for my needing to step up and have this person stop his antics.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Randy Barnett
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: email clients

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and
certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s
messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent
criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with
them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is
generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the
mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

Don

*From:*Rick Mladek

*Sent:*Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

*To:*main@jfw.groups.io

*Subject:*Re: email clients

Brian,

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just
because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down
towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list,
please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other
lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself
when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his
rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation
towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own
list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you
are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight
no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed
yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may
not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected
and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most
ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever
encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will
not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more,
towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I
request this person be removed without further delay.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io> <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: email clients

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me. I have been
around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a
decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual
content of a page they post.  And my describing something in
visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have
vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not
be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

/*There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that
the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a
framework upon which great things have been and still will be
built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in
the Constitution," but are allowed under it.*/

            ~Brian Vogel


 

Ricky, you should keep your facts straight, Brian recently decided to unsubscribe from the Windows 10 list and the majority of list members felt this was a great loss.

You seem to be on a personal mission to convince others that just because you don't like his approach nobody should. Interestingly enough once again the majority of people on the Windows 10 list didn't seem to have a big problem with his messages, Brian can be very direct and he may question why somebody asks a question for which it is extremely easy to find an answer and he is definitely correct in saying that there are a few individuals who are just too lazy to take notes and hence ask the same simple things over and over or they ask because they don't want to go out of their comfort zone and try to look up how to do something by looking it up online.

If you like I could send you instructions on how to set up a filter so all Brian's emails go to your trash folder and this way you don't need to experience high blood pressure or waste time to bad mouth him everytime he writes something you don't like.

I by the way am also completely blind, but if you can't accept the fact that not everybody has your personality then maybe you are the one who should start your own list because as other spointed out, most of us are not offended.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

The point is simple, I am and he has attacked individuals on other lists previously. Who cares what he knows. I will not accept his rudeness, attacks etc. towards any blind person no matter their knowledge. He has no right to do this and has been forced off of other groups due to his total lack of respect for anyone. No, you do not know this person and he surely should be removed from tjhis list, no matter what he believes he knows or otherwise. Do not defend those obviously guilty and if you believe you need to, then as I told him, go start your own group list for rude people and go attack one another. He went after Randy and I have no idea how you do not see this.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Walls
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


James Bentley
 

Sieghard and list members,

 

Everyone certainly has their right to their own opinion.

 

As for me, I agree with your post ten thousand percent.

 

I manage a lot better with computers now compared to lets say four years ago.

 

But, I remember a time in my life when I had only one computer with almost no ability to keep it up and running all by myself.  To further exacerbate the situation , I did not have the extra money to pay for any computer repairs.

 

And, of course, my laptop suddenly needed to be formatted and reinstalled.

 

I live alone and in an area where there is little to no free computer tech support.

 

But, Brian was there for me.  It took me two and a half days to finally figure out how to follow his directions.  I would have never accomplished getting my window to the world back up and running with his help.  And, I mean he stuck with me for almost three days.

 

Now, maybe Brian isn’t perfect but he is sure perfect enough for me.  I have witnessed Brian taking so very much of his time, energy, and experience to assist others without ever asking for one single dime.

 

That’s my little two cents worth and I have zero hard feelings for anyone who disagrees with me.

 

Peace and patience to all of you,  including Brian,

 

James B 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Ricky, you should keep your facts straight, Brian recently decided to unsubscribe from the Windows 10 list and the majority of list members felt this was a great loss.

You seem to be on a personal mission to convince others that just because you don't like his approach nobody should. Interestingly enough once again the majority of people on the Windows 10 list didn't seem to have a big problem with his messages, Brian can be very direct and he may question why somebody asks a question for which it is extremely easy to find an answer and he is definitely correct in saying that there are a few individuals who are just too lazy to take notes and hence ask the same simple things over and over or they ask because they don't want to go out of their comfort zone and try to look up how to do something by looking it up online.

If you like I could send you instructions on how to set up a filter so all Brian's emails go to your trash folder and this way you don't need to experience high blood pressure or waste time to bad mouth him everytime he writes something you don't like.

I by the way am also completely blind, but if you can't accept the fact that not everybody has your personality then maybe you are the one who should start your own list because as other spointed out, most of us are not offended.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

The point is simple, I am and he has attacked individuals on other lists previously. Who cares what he knows. I will not accept his rudeness, attacks etc. towards any blind person no matter their knowledge. He has no right to do this and has been forced off of other groups due to his total lack of respect for anyone. No, you do not know this person and he surely should be removed from tjhis list, no matter what he believes he knows or otherwise. Do not defend those obviously guilty and if you believe you need to, then as I told him, go start your own group list for rude people and go attack one another. He went after Randy and I have no idea how you do not see this.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Walls
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel