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Interesting. Wonder if there are companies that offer such affordable rates closer to home. Something to look into later perhaps.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 15, 2022 05:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:41 PM, JM Casey wrote: I once looked into it [data recovery from a failed drive] about ten years ago when one of my hhds failed and the price I came up with was well over $1,000.
-
Which it still sometimes can, but these days it's generally at least somewhat less expensive.
There is a company in California, 300 Dollar Data Recovery (https://www.300dollardatarecovery.com/) that's well regarded and, in most common cases, will do recoveries for three hundred dollars for hard disk drives.
SSD recovery remains a far more expensive proposition, just like recovery from thumb drives or SD cards is. It's also less likely to be successful, as certain failure types make recovery impossible for solid-state media as the whole drive cannot be accessed.
-- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy. ~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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Well listen,
I have offered first hand evidence, by my proxy,
that this can be done in a clean home with no air movement.
Can you offer any first hand evidence of an attempt
that was corrupted by dust particles?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
This is not a popularity context. This will be my last
post on this. What you are saying is reckless, wrong, and out and out
stupid. No qualified computer techician would
say otherwise. And that's because we actually know what's what when it
comes to data recovery. I am correct, you are not. That is what
matters. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build
19045
If
you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you
can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are
morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into
foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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|
This is not a popularity context. This will be my last post on this. What you are saying is reckless, wrong, and out and out stupid. No qualified computer techician would say otherwise. And that's because we actually know what's what when it comes to data recovery. I am correct, you are not. That is what matters. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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I too have a lot of years of building
computers, since DOS days, so I can confidently state, based on how you state
information, I suspect you know what you expout from reading on-line only, or
mostly as such.
You started out by calling myself or my son a lire
by stating it is BS, and if you truly knew hardware as you claim, you would know
what is possible with the mechanics of electronic devices.
Oh, yeah, practice what you preach, and keep this
on topic, rather than insulting people via a drive discussion, which as well, is
off topic for this list.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 09:42 PM, K0LNY wrote:
All I'm claiming is that my son has proved that individuals can do
it themselves and likely be successful. - And as someone who is
in computer repair for a living, I can state unequivocally that you are
wrong. The probability of being "successful" is vanishingly small.
You are not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by making claims that 5
minutes of research prove to be false. You are wrong, period, end of
sentence. I'm not going to allow statements like opening a drive in
uncontrolled environments is likely to cause anything other than complete data
loss. If your son did this, he dodged a huge bullet. A word to the
wise should be sufficient. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build
19045
If
you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you
can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are
morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into
foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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|
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 09:42 PM, K0LNY wrote:
All I'm claiming is that my son has proved that individuals can do it themselves and likely be successful.
- And as someone who is in computer repair for a living, I can state unequivocally that you are wrong. The probability of being "successful" is vanishingly small. You are not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by making claims that 5 minutes of research prove to be false. You are wrong, period, end of sentence. I'm not going to allow statements like opening a drive in uncontrolled environments is likely to cause anything other than complete data loss. If your son did this, he dodged a huge bullet. A word to the wise should be sufficient. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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If I were doing it for a crime, or the government in any capacity, it is
best for a pro to do the task.
All I'm claiming is that my son has proved that individuals can do it
themselves and likely be successful.
Besides, as soon as one puts it back together, the first thing to be done is
copy the important data out, and then no matter who does the work, the drive
should be considered toast.
Glenn
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----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bentley" <bentleyj1952@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? I have a very good friend who works in a lab that recovers deleted hard drives. Sometimes for the Police and various Government Agencies. He is not very talkative about his work but, We have talked enough so that I am certain that he would agree with Brian 100%. Opening up a drive outside of specialized lab conditions is almost always harmful to the data on the drive. I wish that I knew more. But, that's the limit of my personal information. And, I see no reason for my friend to be B S ing me. James B -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:38 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? Yup! There goes Mr. Vogel, acting like he's better than everyone else here, and acting like he knows everything. Just ignore him. Gene... On 11/15/2022 3:19 PM, K0LNY wrote:
Hardly BS, why would my son lie to me about that?
I saw the cracked laptop, and suggested to him that he give it a go,
because he had nothing to lose.
You are out of line on calling it BS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:47 PM, K0LNY wrote:
A lot of those reclaiming services and special clean room are simply
hype.
-
No, they're not. Those who do data recovery for badly damaged drives
take on quite a bit of legal responsibility, and it is very well known
that exposing hard disk drive platters to even tiny bits of dust often
nukes what's on them.
Not buying the story about your son. And that's not to say this isn't
what he told you. I know enough data recovery techs, and exactly what
they do and how they do it and why, to call BS on this one.
Opening a HDD to the open air in less than ideal conditions is a recipe
for full data loss in a very large number of cases. Almost all, I'd say.
And data recovery from an SSD is even more expensive and less likely to
succeed. So those of you using SSDs as your main system (and, perhaps,
data) drive(s) need to be backing up if you're not doing so already.
--
Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
*/If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s
no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it;
babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has
to be trained into foresight and empathy./*
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in /The Guardian/
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I have a very good friend who works in a lab that recovers deleted hard drives. Sometimes for the Police and various Government Agencies.
He is not very talkative about his work but, We have talked enough so that I am certain that he would agree with Brian 100%. Opening up a drive outside of specialized lab conditions is almost always harmful to the data on the drive.
I wish that I knew more. But, that's the limit of my personal information. And, I see no reason for my friend to be B S ing me.
James B
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:38 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? Yup! There goes Mr. Vogel, acting like he's better than everyone else here, and acting like he knows everything. Just ignore him. Gene... On 11/15/2022 3:19 PM, K0LNY wrote:
Hardly BS, why would my son lie to me about that?
I saw the cracked laptop, and suggested to him that he give it a go,
because he had nothing to lose.
You are out of line on calling it BS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:47 PM, K0LNY wrote:
A lot of those reclaiming services and special clean room are simply
hype.
-
No, they're not. Those who do data recovery for badly damaged drives
take on quite a bit of legal responsibility, and it is very well known
that exposing hard disk drive platters to even tiny bits of dust often
nukes what's on them.
Not buying the story about your son. And that's not to say this isn't
what he told you. I know enough data recovery techs, and exactly what
they do and how they do it and why, to call BS on this one.
Opening a HDD to the open air in less than ideal conditions is a recipe
for full data loss in a very large number of cases. Almost all, I'd say.
And data recovery from an SSD is even more expensive and less likely to
succeed. So those of you using SSDs as your main system (and, perhaps,
data) drive(s) need to be backing up if you're not doing so already.
--
Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
*/If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s
no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it;
babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has
to be trained into foresight and empathy./*
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in /The Guardian/
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I also suspect that it is a combination of extremely sensitive software and hardware that is capable of measuring the different strengths of magnetic information on a hard drive's magnetic platters.
With expensive enough high tech equipment, a technician can go back at least 8 to 10 writings on all places on the platter. If I had critical reasons to destroy data on a hard drive, I would write dozens of erase passes with a well researched utility.
But, even our Government and the Clinton's use hammers to be certain.
James B
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 10:49 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? I believe that it's more about what specialized hardware you have access to than having some secret knowledge. The up side of that is that the hardware required is so expensive that only a government agency has any chance of owning it. Gene... On 11/15/2022 11:30 AM, K0LNY wrote: I'd sure like to know what these government forensic computer recovery
people know about getting data from an erased HD.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Have you actually verified that or are you just assuming? Please don't
take this the wrong way, I would hate to think that it does wipe the
drive only to find out the hard way that it doesn't and end up having
personally sensitive information end up in somebody else's hands.
Gene...
On 11/15/2022 4:13 AM, Dave Durber wrote:
Gene:
Yes it does!
Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
I wonder if unchecking the quick format option in the GUI format utility
has the same effect as with the command line version.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:31 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey gene.
Is your call of course. I personally would use a utility built into
windows first, if available.
The /p switch is not new, but the thoroughness of the passes is kind
of new-ish -- taht is, windows 8 new, which I guess isn't that new
anymore. The switch is listed in the format documentation but not with
much detail. There's a little more here on this page:
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/perform-a-secure-disk-wipe-with-windows-10s-format-command/
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Interesting! That must be a new switch that was added recently, I know
it wasn't there the last time I read through the format documentation
looking for something.
Still, I'd prefer to use a utility that is specifically designed for
wiping disks, but that would be a good fallback in case one isn't
available, it would be better than nothing.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:20 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey Gene.
The /p switch works like this:
You specify the number of passes/overwrites to take place of the
disk. First, it overwrites all sectors with 0, then additional passes
use random numbers.
So, to do four passes over the disk, you would type.
Format driveletter: /p:4
Note the colon symbol between /p and the number of passes you would
like to perform.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Exactly what does this /p switch do?
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 12:59 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey all.
You can do a full format, overwriting sectors as many times as you
want, using the command line format tool and the /p switch. Not 100%
certain this works on SSD drives as I've never had occasion to
format my drive, but it should.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave
Durber
Sent: November 13, 2022 08:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Marty:
Formatting a drive, does not erase any information which was
Previously stored on the drive before it was formatted. There are a
number of software data programs, which have the capability to
recover data, even though a drive/sd card/memory stick has been
formatted. The only way to ensure any and all data is erased from
any storage medium, is to use a specific program or, a program which
has the function, to perform a low-level format for the specific
storage medium, which erases all format information and data from
anSSD, HDD, SD card or memory stick.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hutchings" <mhutchings152730@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Can you just plug in the drive, go to Desktop and go to This PC.
Arrow down to your drive and hit the Application or Context menu and
arrow down to Format and hit Enter. This should wipe everything off
of the drive.
On 11/13/2022 3:13 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Hi everyone!
I need to securely wipe the content from three external hard drives
that I am going to give to my brother. Is there a drive wiping
utility that will wipe the entire drive that is accessible with JAWS?
Thanks!
Gene...
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That makes sense. The page I read about the format command statest aht the initial pass is a 0 fill, and additional passes use some kind of randomiser to obscure things further. I imagine more than two would probably be overkill for most people.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 15, 2022 05:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 05:34 PM, JM Casey wrote: Of course how effective doing multiple rewrites of disk sectors to wipe information actually is, is also something I'm not fully certain of.
-
Unless we were to be talking about forensic analysis by entities such as the NSA, it's really not any more effective to do additional passes after a single zero fill pass has been done for every sector on the disk.
Some multi-pass utilities do not zero fill as part of what they do, so each pass "twiddles" a selection of bits to obscure existing data, so each successive pass "twiddles" more bits, making things less clear. Ages ago I used to use CCleaner to do this with multiple passes until I learned that several different options under Windows give you the ability to obliterate with zero filling.
Whether using diskpart, which would require the recipient of the drive to reinitialize it if you don't do so yourself before passing it along, or format with the option to zero fill, you've got a drive that the vast majority of human beings or entities could never reconstruct. Even those who can attempt reconstruction will not necessarily succeed, either.
-- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy. ~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 05:34 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Of course how effective doing multiple rewrites of disk sectors to wipe information actually is, is also something I'm not fully certain of.
- Unless we were to be talking about forensic analysis by entities such as the NSA, it's really not any more effective to do additional passes after a single zero fill pass has been done for every sector on the disk. Some multi-pass utilities do not zero fill as part of what they do, so each pass "twiddles" a selection of bits to obscure existing data, so each successive pass "twiddles" more bits, making things less clear. Ages ago I used to use CCleaner to do this with multiple passes until I learned that several different options under Windows give you the ability to obliterate with zero filling. Whether using diskpart, which would require the recipient of the drive to reinitialize it if you don't do so yourself before passing it along, or format with the option to zero fill, you've got a drive that the vast majority of human beings or entities could never reconstruct. Even those who can attempt reconstruction will not necessarily succeed, either. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
|
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It might, but I don't think you can control the number of passes to performo n the disk with the GUI.
Of course how effective doing multiple rewrites of disk sectors to wipe information actually is, is also something I'm not fully certain of. One would think that, the more passes, the less chances there would be of anything being recoverable, but I also don't know, for example, how different this process is when it coems to SSDs, where constant overwrites are said to decrease the lifespan of the drive.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: November 15, 2022 11:27 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? Have you actually verified that or are you just assuming? Please don't take this the wrong way, I would hate to think that it does wipe the drive only to find out the hard way that it doesn't and end up having personally sensitive information end up in somebody else's hands. Gene... On 11/15/2022 4:13 AM, Dave Durber wrote: Gene:
Yes it does!
Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner"
<genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
I wonder if unchecking the quick format option in the GUI format
utility has the same effect as with the command line version.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:31 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey gene.
Is your call of course. I personally would use a utility built into
windows first, if available.
The /p switch is not new, but the thoroughness of the passes is kind
of new-ish -- taht is, windows 8 new, which I guess isn't that new
anymore. The switch is listed in the format documentation but not
with much detail. There's a little more here on this page:
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/perform-a-secure-disk-wipe-with-
windows-10s-format-command/
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Interesting! That must be a new switch that was added recently, I
know it wasn't there the last time I read through the format
documentation looking for something.
Still, I'd prefer to use a utility that is specifically designed for
wiping disks, but that would be a good fallback in case one isn't
available, it would be better than nothing.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:20 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey Gene.
The /p switch works like this:
You specify the number of passes/overwrites to take place of the
disk. First, it overwrites all sectors with 0, then additional
passes use random numbers.
So, to do four passes over the disk, you would type.
Format driveletter: /p:4
Note the colon symbol between /p and the number of passes you would
like to perform.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Exactly what does this /p switch do?
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 12:59 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey all.
You can do a full format, overwriting sectors as many times as you
want, using the command line format tool and the /p switch. Not
100% certain this works on SSD drives as I've never had occasion to
format my drive, but it should.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave
Durber
Sent: November 13, 2022 08:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Marty:
Formatting a drive, does not erase any information which was
Previously stored on the drive before it was formatted. There are a
number of software data programs, which have the capability to
recover data, even though a drive/sd card/memory stick has been
formatted. The only way to ensure any and all data is erased from
any storage medium, is to use a specific program or, a program
which has the function, to perform a low-level format for the
specific storage medium, which erases all format information and
data from anSSD, HDD, SD card or memory stick.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hutchings" <mhutchings152730@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Can you just plug in the drive, go to Desktop and go to This PC.
Arrow down to your drive and hit the Application or Context menu
and arrow down to Format and hit Enter. This should wipe
everything off of the drive.
On 11/13/2022 3:13 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Hi everyone!
I need to securely wipe the content from three external hard
drives that I am going to give to my brother. Is there a drive
wiping utility that will wipe the entire drive that is accessible with JAWS?
Thanks!
Gene...
|
|
|
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:41 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I once looked into it [data recovery from a failed drive] about ten years ago when one of my hhds failed and the price I came up with was well over $1,000.
- Which it still sometimes can, but these days it's generally at least somewhat less expensive. There is a company in California, 300 Dollar Data Recovery ( https://www.300dollardatarecovery.com/) that's well regarded and, in most common cases, will do recoveries for three hundred dollars for hard disk drives. SSD recovery remains a far more expensive proposition, just like recovery from thumb drives or SD cards is. It's also less likely to be successful, as certain failure types make recovery impossible for solid-state media as the whole drive cannot be accessed. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
|
|
|
JM:
Using a data recovery specialist company to recover data from a drive is always going to b expensive. Then, of course, the price will be higher, depending upon the capacity of the drive.
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "JM Casey" <jmcasey@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? For sure, it is all about hardware. To do serious physical recovery of a damaged hard drive requires laboratory conditions and specialised labour. That's why, if you end up with a damaged drive, and look into physical recovery services, you'll find the price to be very high -- I once looked into it about ten years ago when one of my hhds failed and the price I came up with was well over $1,000. -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner Sent: November 15, 2022 11:49 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility? I believe that it's more about what specialized hardware you have access to than having some secret knowledge. The up side of that is that the hardware required is so expensive that only a government agency has any chance of owning it. Gene... On 11/15/2022 11:30 AM, K0LNY wrote: I'd sure like to know what these government forensic computer recovery
people know about getting data from an erased HD.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Have you actually verified that or are you just assuming? Please don't
take this the wrong way, I would hate to think that it does wipe the
drive only to find out the hard way that it doesn't and end up having
personally sensitive information end up in somebody else's hands.
Gene...
On 11/15/2022 4:13 AM, Dave Durber wrote:
Gene:
Yes it does!
Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner"
<genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
I wonder if unchecking the quick format option in the GUI format
utility has the same effect as with the command line version.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:31 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey gene.
Is your call of course. I personally would use a utility built into
windows first, if available.
The /p switch is not new, but the thoroughness of the passes is kind
of new-ish -- taht is, windows 8 new, which I guess isn't that new
anymore. The switch is listed in the format documentation but not
with much detail. There's a little more here on this page:
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/perform-a-secure-disk-wipe-with
-windows-10s-format-command/
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Interesting! That must be a new switch that was added recently, I
know it wasn't there the last time I read through the format
documentation looking for something.
Still, I'd prefer to use a utility that is specifically designed for
wiping disks, but that would be a good fallback in case one isn't
available, it would be better than nothing.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:20 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey Gene.
The /p switch works like this:
You specify the number of passes/overwrites to take place of the
disk. First, it overwrites all sectors with 0, then additional
passes use random numbers.
So, to do four passes over the disk, you would type.
Format driveletter: /p:4
Note the colon symbol between /p and the number of passes you would
like to perform.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Exactly what does this /p switch do?
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 12:59 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey all.
You can do a full format, overwriting sectors as many times as you
want, using the command line format tool and the /p switch. Not
100% certain this works on SSD drives as I've never had occasion
to format my drive, but it should.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave
Durber
Sent: November 13, 2022 08:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Marty:
Formatting a drive, does not erase any information which was
Previously stored on the drive before it was formatted. There are
a number of software data programs, which have the capability to
recover data, even though a drive/sd card/memory stick has been
formatted. The only way to ensure any and all data is erased from
any storage medium, is to use a specific program or, a program
which has the function, to perform a low-level format for the
specific storage medium, which erases all format information and
data from anSSD, HDD, SD card or memory stick.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hutchings" <mhutchings152730@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Can you just plug in the drive, go to Desktop and go to This PC.
Arrow down to your drive and hit the Application or Context menu
and arrow down to Format and hit Enter. This should wipe
everything off of the drive.
On 11/13/2022 3:13 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Hi everyone!
I need to securely wipe the content from three external hard
drives that I am going to give to my brother. Is there a drive
wiping utility that will wipe the entire drive that is accessible with JAWS?
Thanks!
Gene...
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Forewarned is forearmed. I've given accurate, and unimpeachable, advice. It's up to individual readers to make their own choices. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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And with that, I am unfollowing this thread.
Gene...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/15/2022 3:38 PM, Gene Warner wrote: Yup! There goes Mr. Vogel, acting like he's better than everyone else here, and acting like he knows everything.
Just ignore him.
Gene...
On 11/15/2022 3:19 PM, K0LNY wrote:
Hardly BS, why would my son lie to me about that?
I saw the cracked laptop, and suggested to him that he give it a go, because he had nothing to lose.
You are out of line on calling it BS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:47 PM, K0LNY wrote:
A lot of those reclaiming services and special clean room are simply
hype.
-
No, they're not. Those who do data recovery for badly damaged drives take on quite a bit of legal responsibility, and it is very well known that exposing hard disk drive platters to even tiny bits of dust often nukes what's on them.
Not buying the story about your son. And that's not to say this isn't what he told you. I know enough data recovery techs, and exactly what they do and how they do it and why, to call BS on this one.
Opening a HDD to the open air in less than ideal conditions is a recipe for full data loss in a very large number of cases. Almost all, I'd say.
And data recovery from an SSD is even more expensive and less likely to succeed. So those of you using SSDs as your main system (and, perhaps, data) drive(s) need to be backing up if you're not doing so already.
--
Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
*/If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy./*
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in /The Guardian/
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Yup! There goes Mr. Vogel, acting like he's better than everyone else here, and acting like he knows everything.
Just ignore him.
Gene...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/15/2022 3:19 PM, K0LNY wrote:
Hardly BS, why would my son lie to me about that?
I saw the cracked laptop, and suggested to him that he give it a go, because he had nothing to lose.
You are out of line on calling it BS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:16 PM
*Subject:* Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:47 PM, K0LNY wrote:
A lot of those reclaiming services and special clean room are simply
hype.
-
No, they're not. Those who do data recovery for badly damaged drives take on quite a bit of legal responsibility, and it is very well known that exposing hard disk drive platters to even tiny bits of dust often nukes what's on them.
Not buying the story about your son. And that's not to say this isn't what he told you. I know enough data recovery techs, and exactly what they do and how they do it and why, to call BS on this one.
Opening a HDD to the open air in less than ideal conditions is a recipe for full data loss in a very large number of cases. Almost all, I'd say.
And data recovery from an SSD is even more expensive and less likely to succeed. So those of you using SSDs as your main system (and, perhaps, data) drive(s) need to be backing up if you're not doing so already.
--
Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
*/If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy./*
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in /The Guardian/
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That could be one very big advantage of SSDs, once overwritten, the data might truly be unrecoverable by any means.
Gene...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/15/2022 3:03 PM, K0LNY wrote: Definitely, but the reference to the cost of data recovery implies those
companies that make a living that charge a fortune for drives that are stuck
and not spinning up.
Now, I wonder what they do for reading the ones and zeros from a SSD.
I'm sure that is all software.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
That's a crashed hard drive which is totally different from an
overwritten hard drive.
Gene...
On 11/15/2022 2:47 PM, K0LNY wrote:
A lot of those reclaiming services and special clean room are simply hype.
My son works on wind turbines, and they employ tough book laptops, and he
dropped his and the HD was clicking after that and it wouldn't boot, and
he
needed to get some files from it.
Well the company wasn't going to pay those crazy prices for data recovery,
so he took out the laptop HD and opened it himself and unstuck the reading
needle by hand, and it booted up fine after that.
As far as a clean room, I'd say just make sure the furnace/air is turned
off
and no fans are going to blow dust around, and you can likely do it
yourself.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "JM Casey" <jmcasey@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
For sure, it is all about hardware. To do serious physical recovery of a
damaged hard drive requires laboratory conditions and specialised labour.
That's why, if you end up with a damaged drive, and look into physical
recovery services, you'll find the price to be very high -- I once looked
into it about ten years ago when one of my hhds failed and the price I
came
up with was well over $1,000.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: November 15, 2022 11:49 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
I believe that it's more about what specialized hardware you have access
to
than having some secret knowledge. The up side of that is that the
hardware
required is so expensive that only a government agency has any chance of
owning it.
Gene...
On 11/15/2022 11:30 AM, K0LNY wrote:
I'd sure like to know what these government forensic computer recovery
people know about getting data from an erased HD.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Have you actually verified that or are you just assuming? Please don't
take this the wrong way, I would hate to think that it does wipe the
drive only to find out the hard way that it doesn't and end up having
personally sensitive information end up in somebody else's hands.
Gene...
On 11/15/2022 4:13 AM, Dave Durber wrote:
Gene:
Yes it does!
Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner"
<genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
I wonder if unchecking the quick format option in the GUI format
utility has the same effect as with the command line version.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:31 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey gene.
Is your call of course. I personally would use a utility built into
windows first, if available.
The /p switch is not new, but the thoroughness of the passes is kind
of new-ish -- taht is, windows 8 new, which I guess isn't that new
anymore. The switch is listed in the format documentation but not
with much detail. There's a little more here on this page:
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/perform-a-secure-disk-wipe-with
-windows-10s-format-command/
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Interesting! That must be a new switch that was added recently, I
know it wasn't there the last time I read through the format
documentation looking for something.
Still, I'd prefer to use a utility that is specifically designed for
wiping disks, but that would be a good fallback in case one isn't
available, it would be better than nothing.
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 1:20 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey Gene.
The /p switch works like this:
You specify the number of passes/overwrites to take place of the
disk. First, it overwrites all sectors with 0, then additional
passes use random numbers.
So, to do four passes over the disk, you would type.
Format driveletter: /p:4
Note the colon symbol between /p and the number of passes you would
like to perform.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Warner
Sent: November 14, 2022 01:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Exactly what does this /p switch do?
Gene...
On 11/14/2022 12:59 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Hey all.
You can do a full format, overwriting sectors as many times as you
want, using the command line format tool and the /p switch. Not
100% certain this works on SSD drives as I've never had occasion
to format my drive, but it should.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave
Durber
Sent: November 13, 2022 08:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Marty:
Formatting a drive, does not erase any information which was
Previously stored on the drive before it was formatted. There are
a number of software data programs, which have the capability to
recover data, even though a drive/sd card/memory stick has been
formatted. The only way to ensure any and all data is erased from
any storage medium, is to use a specific program or, a program
which has the function, to perform a low-level format for the
specific storage medium, which erases all format information and
data from anSSD, HDD, SD card or memory stick.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hutchings" <mhutchings152730@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
Can you just plug in the drive, go to Desktop and go to This PC.
Arrow down to your drive and hit the Application or Context menu
and arrow down to Format and hit Enter. This should wipe
everything off of the drive.
On 11/13/2022 3:13 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Hi everyone!
I need to securely wipe the content from three external hard
drives that I am going to give to my brother. Is there a drive
wiping utility that will wipe the entire drive that is accessible
with JAWS?
Thanks!
Gene...
|
|
|
It is not false, it works, and my son proved
it.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 03:19 PM, K0LNY wrote:
You are out of line on calling it BS. - No, I'm
not. What you are proposing is dangerous to data integrity if someone has
really valuable data that they need to recover. It's wrong, inaccurate,
and false. And you're using an anecdotal story that no one who knows
anything about this should, could, or would accept. So, no, you're the
one giving grossly inaccurate information. And I am calling BS, as loudly
as I can because I care about people not losing their data by being
foolish. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build
19045
If
you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you
can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are
morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into
foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
|
|
|
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 03:19 PM, K0LNY wrote:
You are out of line on calling it BS.
- No, I'm not. What you are proposing is dangerous to data integrity if someone has really valuable data that they need to recover. It's wrong, inaccurate, and false. And you're using an anecdotal story that no one who knows anything about this should, could, or would accept. So, no, you're the one giving grossly inaccurate information. And I am calling BS, as loudly as I can because I care about people not losing their data by being foolish. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045
If you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
|
|
|
Hardly BS, why would my son lie to me about
that?
I saw the cracked laptop, and suggested to him that
he give it a go, because he had nothing to lose.
You are out of line on calling it BS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible drive utility?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 02:47 PM, K0LNY wrote:
A lot of those reclaiming services and special clean room are
simply hype. - No, they're not. Those who do data recovery
for badly damaged drives take on quite a bit of legal responsibility, and it is
very well known that exposing hard disk drive platters to even tiny bits of dust
often nukes what's on them. Not buying the story about your son.
And that's not to say this isn't what he told you. I know enough data
recovery techs, and exactly what they do and how they do it and why, to call BS
on this one. Opening a HDD to the open air in less than ideal conditions
is a recipe for full data loss in a very large number of cases. Almost
all, I'd say. And data recovery from an SSD is even more
expensive and less likely to succeed. So those of you using SSDs as your
main system (and, perhaps, data) drive(s) need to be backing up if you're not
doing so already. --
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build
19045
If
you cannot or will not imagine the results of your actions, there’s no way you
can act morally or responsibly. Little kids can’t do it; babies are
morally monsters — completely greedy. Their imagination has to be trained into
foresight and empathy.
~ Ursula LeGuin, 2005 Interview in The Guardian
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|
|
