Date
1 - 20 of 33
Moderated Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mark
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users? Here are a few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts
Use the dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying
Customize speech and sound schemes
Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears
Control key
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts
Use the dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying
Customize speech and sound schemes
Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears
Control key
Soronel Haetir
I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is
dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit
and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close
to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with
no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop,
file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for
computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and
reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'.
I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of
a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio
left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though
my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones.
Not sure what you were asking about with "control key".
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit
and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close
to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with
no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop,
file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for
computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and
reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'.
I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of
a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio
left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though
my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones.
Not sure what you were asking about with "control key".
On 9/17/22, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from
listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users? Here are a
few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts
Use the dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying
Customize speech and sound schemes
Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears
Control key
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Mike Pietruk
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking
all of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but
that's me.
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking
all of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but
that's me.
Mike Pietruk
Soronel
it sounds as if, with all those dictionaries, you spend as much time doing
that as actually using JAWS.
If I were new at this -- I've been using screen readers for nearly 4
decades -- reading your msg would make run, not walk away, from JAWS.
Why, someone might ask? If I have to do all that to get a program to work
for me, I think I might be better off with something simpler.
When getting into Windows and away from the Apple IIe in the 1990s, I
chose Window-Eyes as I was scared away by the seemingly complex JAWS
licensing.
Frankly, I was mistaken as I later discovered when Window-Eyes was bought
out, but the straightforwardness of installing WE had a newby to Windows
far more comfortable.
One can do massive amounts of customizing in Jaws -- as was in Window-Eyes
-- but the beauty of JAWS also is that it can work quite well in its basic
customization.
What I suggest to the original questioner is don't overthink this.
First, learn the program and then figure out if you really have to do a
lot of changes.
And keep copies of your ENU directory so you can easily revert to another
JFW set up if your playing around messes things up.
it sounds as if, with all those dictionaries, you spend as much time doing
that as actually using JAWS.
If I were new at this -- I've been using screen readers for nearly 4
decades -- reading your msg would make run, not walk away, from JAWS.
Why, someone might ask? If I have to do all that to get a program to work
for me, I think I might be better off with something simpler.
When getting into Windows and away from the Apple IIe in the 1990s, I
chose Window-Eyes as I was scared away by the seemingly complex JAWS
licensing.
Frankly, I was mistaken as I later discovered when Window-Eyes was bought
out, but the straightforwardness of installing WE had a newby to Windows
far more comfortable.
One can do massive amounts of customizing in Jaws -- as was in Window-Eyes
-- but the beauty of JAWS also is that it can work quite well in its basic
customization.
What I suggest to the original questioner is don't overthink this.
First, learn the program and then figure out if you really have to do a
lot of changes.
And keep copies of your ENU directory so you can easily revert to another
JFW set up if your playing around messes things up.
Adrian Spratt
Soronel, I'm guessing Mark was exhibiting a little humor when he closed with control key. As you know, that's the key that shuts JAWS up!
Mark, I think you raise an interesting subject. It's clear you're an experienced JAWS user, and so what I think you're proposing is that people describe how they avoid listener fatigue, or what you call cognitive fatigue due to listening. In addition to the suggestions you and Soronel discuss, ones that come right away to my mind include:
navigation commands to navigate webpages
Placemarkers that minimize searching around familiar webpages
Quick keys with insert-z in formatted Word documents to move from heading to heading
Links lists with insert-F7 both to find desired links quickly and to maximize the likelihood that the links will work
First-letter navigation in lists
Insert-F4 followed by enter. (This is my little joke. It truly shuts up JAWS!)
Note: Read "JAWS key" when I write "insert."
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Show quoted text
Mark, I think you raise an interesting subject. It's clear you're an experienced JAWS user, and so what I think you're proposing is that people describe how they avoid listener fatigue, or what you call cognitive fatigue due to listening. In addition to the suggestions you and Soronel discuss, ones that come right away to my mind include:
navigation commands to navigate webpages
Placemarkers that minimize searching around familiar webpages
Quick keys with insert-z in formatted Word documents to move from heading to heading
Links lists with insert-F7 both to find desired links quickly and to maximize the likelihood that the links will work
First-letter navigation in lists
Insert-F4 followed by enter. (This is my little joke. It truly shuts up JAWS!)
Note: Read "JAWS key" when I write "insert."
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop, file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'.
I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones.
Not sure what you were asking about with "control key".
On 9/17/22, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 3:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop, file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'.
I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones.
Not sure what you were asking about with "control key".
On 9/17/22, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes
from listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users?
Here are a few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts Use the
dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying Customize
speech and sound schemes Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears Control key
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Mike Pietruk
That's a great list you make; all of what you raise makes the use of the
program itself faster and easier to use -- and many of the points you
raise sadly get overlooked.
Personally, I don't find the use of a screen reader fatiguing.
And the vast majority of what I've learned about any screen reader has
been by trial and error;
No 2 people use JAWS in the same way and for the same purposes. The
fatigue, if that's what we're gonna call it, comes when one gets
overwhelmed by the program and gets afraid to try things as they fear
making irrepairable and unforgiving erros.
Backing their ENU directory allows one that comfort level to return to a
previous use time should their tryings are errors.
Perhaps if one finds the use of a screen reader tiring, it may also be to
the voice or voices they use requiring too much comprehension.
If I would start thinking that the use of JAWS is fatiguing, my first
inclination would be to consider the voices I am using
as demanding too much of my attention.
program itself faster and easier to use -- and many of the points you
raise sadly get overlooked.
Personally, I don't find the use of a screen reader fatiguing.
And the vast majority of what I've learned about any screen reader has
been by trial and error;
No 2 people use JAWS in the same way and for the same purposes. The
fatigue, if that's what we're gonna call it, comes when one gets
overwhelmed by the program and gets afraid to try things as they fear
making irrepairable and unforgiving erros.
Backing their ENU directory allows one that comfort level to return to a
previous use time should their tryings are errors.
Perhaps if one finds the use of a screen reader tiring, it may also be to
the voice or voices they use requiring too much comprehension.
If I would start thinking that the use of JAWS is fatiguing, my first
inclination would be to consider the voices I am using
as demanding too much of my attention.
Loy
I am very comfortable with Eloquence, I have been using it for about 20 years. I have tried other voices but always come back to Eloquence.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking
all of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but
that's me.
Gene Warner
Everyone is different.
I have been using JAWS for nine years and other than adding maybe three dozen words that Eloquence mispronounces to the default dictionary and adjusting how Eloquence speaks as I get used to it, and adjusting a few other settings in JAWS, I haven't felt the need to do most of those things you mention.
Gene...
the
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I have been using JAWS for nine years and other than adding maybe three dozen words that Eloquence mispronounces to the default dictionary and adjusting how Eloquence speaks as I get used to it, and adjusting a few other settings in JAWS, I haven't felt the need to do most of those things you mention.
Gene...
the
On 9/17/2022 2:51 PM, Mark wrote:
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users? Here are a few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts
Use the dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying
Customize speech and sound schemes
Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears
Control key
Gene Warner
Wow! It sounds like you spend more time putting words into dictionaries, creating voice profiles, and adjusting the settings than you do actually using JAWS. I think that maybe you are way over thinking it.
But at the end of the day, to each their own.
Gene...
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But at the end of the day, to each their own.
Gene...
On 9/17/2022 3:38 PM, Soronel Haetir wrote:
I have verbosity set to intermediate but the main thing I do is
dictionaries. My default dictionary has close to the 500 entry limit
and I have a couple per-application dictionaries that are also close
to the limit. I do have three profiles, two using eloquence, one with
no punctuation that I use for normal windows interaction (desktop,
file explorer, etc) and one set to all punctuation that I use for
computer programming. For text-heavy things like web browsing and
reading books I use a vocalizer expressive profile set to 'some'.
I don't have other audio going often enough for ducking to be much of
a use to me. And I find it far more burdensom to try splitting audio
left-right. There are rare times that I set something to play though
my laptop's built-in speakers rather than my usual headphones.
Not sure what you were asking about with "control key".
On 9/17/22, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes from
listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users? Here are a
few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts
Use the dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying
Customize speech and sound schemes
Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears
Control key
Lori Lynn
I agree, I don't do most of that and I've been a JAWS user since the early 90s. I use to add a lot of words to the dictionary. I had a job that used a large amount of abbreviations that drove me nuts. Now that I'm retired and do what I want on my computer I no longer have the need.
Lori Lynn
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Lori Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Everyone is different.
I have been using JAWS for nine years and other than adding maybe three dozen words that Eloquence mispronounces to the default dictionary and adjusting how Eloquence speaks as I get used to it, and adjusting a few other settings in JAWS, I haven't felt the need to do most of those things you mention.
Gene...
the
On 9/17/2022 2:51 PM, Mark wrote:
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Everyone is different.
I have been using JAWS for nine years and other than adding maybe three dozen words that Eloquence mispronounces to the default dictionary and adjusting how Eloquence speaks as I get used to it, and adjusting a few other settings in JAWS, I haven't felt the need to do most of those things you mention.
Gene...
the
On 9/17/2022 2:51 PM, Mark wrote:
What are some of the ways people manage the cognitive load that comes
from listening to JAWS? Any advice from the pros or long-time users?
Here are a few that come to mind:
Change verbosity levels, obviously
Assign different voices to different speech contexts Use the
dictionary to simplify frequent phrases what JAWS is saying Customize
speech and sound schemes Switch between speech and sound schemes
Replacing words or phrases with soft, low sounds, if possible.
Turn of tutor messages
Audio ducking
Split JAWS and system sounds between left and right ears Control key
Maria Campbell
Me too.
Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
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Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
On 9/17/2022 5:46 PM, Loy wrote:
I am very comfortable with Eloquence, I have been using it for about 20 years. I have tried other voices but always come back to Eloquence.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listeningMark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking
all of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but
that's me.
John cooper
Have to agree with most. I’ve been using JAWS for around thee 25’ish years and I’ve really only added names into the dictionary, living in Scotland this can be a necessary action. I find, on the whole, that JAWS is no great annoyance . I think not having it would be worse!
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On 18 Sep 2022, at 00:40, Mark <mweiler@...> wrote:
Soronel, I'm intrigued by your use of the dictionary. Do you use it the usual way to replace words with phonetic ones or have you come up with clever uses? Do you remove or replace phrases? Do you every use sounds?
Mike Pietruk
John
You say it nicely.
Let me add this: When I started with screen readers in the 1980s, I was
picky to the point that names and places and words had to be pronounced
correctly.
Soon, I began to realize that it's not important how a name is pronounced
but do I recognize what the speech synthesizer is saying.
If I understand it, it doesn't need correction.
And Jaws makes it easy to check spellings by letter if needed.
And if I need to learn the spelling of something for later use, I can
always copy it to the clipboard for later use and review.
You say it nicely.
Let me add this: When I started with screen readers in the 1980s, I was
picky to the point that names and places and words had to be pronounced
correctly.
Soon, I began to realize that it's not important how a name is pronounced
but do I recognize what the speech synthesizer is saying.
If I understand it, it doesn't need correction.
And Jaws makes it easy to check spellings by letter if needed.
And if I need to learn the spelling of something for later use, I can
always copy it to the clipboard for later use and review.
Adrian Spratt
Mike,
This is a reasonable approach to the pronunciation conundrum. Still, I think some cautions are in order. If we hear a word or someone's name for the first time while using JAWS and JAWS mispronounces it, we may carry that mispronunciation in our heads. If we later got into a conversation and mispronounced that word or name, we could feel foolish on being corrected.
I wish I could come up with better examples, but the one that comes to mind is the name Peter Davison, whose obituary appeared the other day. I'd known nothing about him, but he was a George Orwell scholar, which is why the obit interested me. My synthesizer pronounces the man's name as Davveson, which is surely wrong, but I didn't realize that until I checked the spelling. I'm sure the correct pronunciation is more like Davidson, except without the second d.
An analogy might be to braille, where it used to be correct to run the symbols for the words "for" and "the" together as if they were one word. It saved space. However, as the revised code has since recognized, this practice caused some blind children to think the two words were also joined together in print.
It's a simple, fast task to add correct pronunciations to the JAWS dictionary. Only occasionally do I have to play with possibilities to arrive at a good pronunciation, such as by capitalizing the first letter of a second syllable, etc.
For me, the problem with the JAWS dictionary is what Soronel mentioned: its limited capacity. In my case, too many entries somehow interferes with how JAWS reads text on webpages in "say all." Vispero's tech support has verified the problem on my system, but no one else seems to be reporting it. either way, there is a limit.
As JAWS users, we process information in some ways that are different from the ways sighted people do. I think it's important to keep it in mind. The JAWS dictionary can help make sure that we communicate fluently and comfortably in the mainstream.
--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/
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This is a reasonable approach to the pronunciation conundrum. Still, I think some cautions are in order. If we hear a word or someone's name for the first time while using JAWS and JAWS mispronounces it, we may carry that mispronunciation in our heads. If we later got into a conversation and mispronounced that word or name, we could feel foolish on being corrected.
I wish I could come up with better examples, but the one that comes to mind is the name Peter Davison, whose obituary appeared the other day. I'd known nothing about him, but he was a George Orwell scholar, which is why the obit interested me. My synthesizer pronounces the man's name as Davveson, which is surely wrong, but I didn't realize that until I checked the spelling. I'm sure the correct pronunciation is more like Davidson, except without the second d.
An analogy might be to braille, where it used to be correct to run the symbols for the words "for" and "the" together as if they were one word. It saved space. However, as the revised code has since recognized, this practice caused some blind children to think the two words were also joined together in print.
It's a simple, fast task to add correct pronunciations to the JAWS dictionary. Only occasionally do I have to play with possibilities to arrive at a good pronunciation, such as by capitalizing the first letter of a second syllable, etc.
For me, the problem with the JAWS dictionary is what Soronel mentioned: its limited capacity. In my case, too many entries somehow interferes with how JAWS reads text on webpages in "say all." Vispero's tech support has verified the problem on my system, but no one else seems to be reporting it. either way, there is a limit.
As JAWS users, we process information in some ways that are different from the ways sighted people do. I think it's important to keep it in mind. The JAWS dictionary can help make sure that we communicate fluently and comfortably in the mainstream.
--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 8:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
John
You say it nicely.
Let me add this: When I started with screen readers in the 1980s, I was picky to the point that names and places and words had to be pronounced correctly.
Soon, I began to realize that it's not important how a name is pronounced but do I recognize what the speech synthesizer is saying.
If I understand it, it doesn't need correction.
And Jaws makes it easy to check spellings by letter if needed.
And if I need to learn the spelling of something for later use, I can always copy it to the clipboard for later use and review.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 8:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
John
You say it nicely.
Let me add this: When I started with screen readers in the 1980s, I was picky to the point that names and places and words had to be pronounced correctly.
Soon, I began to realize that it's not important how a name is pronounced but do I recognize what the speech synthesizer is saying.
If I understand it, it doesn't need correction.
And Jaws makes it easy to check spellings by letter if needed.
And if I need to learn the spelling of something for later use, I can always copy it to the clipboard for later use and review.
Lori Lynn
I use to be one of those people who obsessed about mispronounced words. I added several hundred words to the JAWS dictionary. The result was crashing my computer. After multiple fixes and replaced hard drives I made the decision that I could live with the way JAWS pronounces words. I've been told many times over the last 22 years that my problem won't happen again. Sorry, but I'm sticking with my decision to avoid the dictionary at all costs.
Lori Lynn
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Lori Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 9:39 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mike,
This is a reasonable approach to the pronunciation conundrum. Still, I think some cautions are in order. If we hear a word or someone's name for the first time while using JAWS and JAWS mispronounces it, we may carry that mispronunciation in our heads. If we later got into a conversation and mispronounced that word or name, we could feel foolish on being corrected.
I wish I could come up with better examples, but the one that comes to mind is the name Peter Davison, whose obituary appeared the other day. I'd known nothing about him, but he was a George Orwell scholar, which is why the obit interested me. My synthesizer pronounces the man's name as Davveson, which is surely wrong, but I didn't realize that until I checked the spelling. I'm sure the correct pronunciation is more like Davidson, except without the second d.
An analogy might be to braille, where it used to be correct to run the symbols for the words "for" and "the" together as if they were one word. It saved space. However, as the revised code has since recognized, this practice caused some blind children to think the two words were also joined together in print.
It's a simple, fast task to add correct pronunciations to the JAWS dictionary. Only occasionally do I have to play with possibilities to arrive at a good pronunciation, such as by capitalizing the first letter of a second syllable, etc.
For me, the problem with the JAWS dictionary is what Soronel mentioned: its limited capacity. In my case, too many entries somehow interferes with how JAWS reads text on webpages in "say all." Vispero's tech support has verified the problem on my system, but no one else seems to be reporting it. either way, there is a limit.
As JAWS users, we process information in some ways that are different from the ways sighted people do. I think it's important to keep it in mind. The JAWS dictionary can help make sure that we communicate fluently and comfortably in the mainstream.
--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadrianspratt.com%2Fbook%2F&;data=05%7C01%7C%7C78a0a72b3e9b4549945e08da998392e3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637991087625157771%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kyqtw4QI7R9yRxvrAn%2FNWqgHtgCqLZIj8SgzG4d4E0M%3D&reserved=0
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 8:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
John
You say it nicely.
Let me add this: When I started with screen readers in the 1980s, I was picky to the point that names and places and words had to be pronounced correctly.
Soon, I began to realize that it's not important how a name is pronounced but do I recognize what the speech synthesizer is saying.
If I understand it, it doesn't need correction.
And Jaws makes it easy to check spellings by letter if needed.
And if I need to learn the spelling of something for later use, I can always copy it to the clipboard for later use and review.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 9:39 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mike,
This is a reasonable approach to the pronunciation conundrum. Still, I think some cautions are in order. If we hear a word or someone's name for the first time while using JAWS and JAWS mispronounces it, we may carry that mispronunciation in our heads. If we later got into a conversation and mispronounced that word or name, we could feel foolish on being corrected.
I wish I could come up with better examples, but the one that comes to mind is the name Peter Davison, whose obituary appeared the other day. I'd known nothing about him, but he was a George Orwell scholar, which is why the obit interested me. My synthesizer pronounces the man's name as Davveson, which is surely wrong, but I didn't realize that until I checked the spelling. I'm sure the correct pronunciation is more like Davidson, except without the second d.
An analogy might be to braille, where it used to be correct to run the symbols for the words "for" and "the" together as if they were one word. It saved space. However, as the revised code has since recognized, this practice caused some blind children to think the two words were also joined together in print.
It's a simple, fast task to add correct pronunciations to the JAWS dictionary. Only occasionally do I have to play with possibilities to arrive at a good pronunciation, such as by capitalizing the first letter of a second syllable, etc.
For me, the problem with the JAWS dictionary is what Soronel mentioned: its limited capacity. In my case, too many entries somehow interferes with how JAWS reads text on webpages in "say all." Vispero's tech support has verified the problem on my system, but no one else seems to be reporting it. either way, there is a limit.
As JAWS users, we process information in some ways that are different from the ways sighted people do. I think it's important to keep it in mind. The JAWS dictionary can help make sure that we communicate fluently and comfortably in the mainstream.
--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadrianspratt.com%2Fbook%2F&;data=05%7C01%7C%7C78a0a72b3e9b4549945e08da998392e3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637991087625157771%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kyqtw4QI7R9yRxvrAn%2FNWqgHtgCqLZIj8SgzG4d4E0M%3D&reserved=0
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 8:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
John
You say it nicely.
Let me add this: When I started with screen readers in the 1980s, I was picky to the point that names and places and words had to be pronounced correctly.
Soon, I began to realize that it's not important how a name is pronounced but do I recognize what the speech synthesizer is saying.
If I understand it, it doesn't need correction.
And Jaws makes it easy to check spellings by letter if needed.
And if I need to learn the spelling of something for later use, I can always copy it to the clipboard for later use and review.
Soronel Haetir
My dictionary entries are pretty stable at this point and nearly all
computer programming related, turning almost words like "strcpy" into
"stir copy" and "strncpy' into
"stir n copy', without the dictionary replacements they sound
maddeningly similar. Been using jaws for about 15 years.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
computer programming related, turning almost words like "strcpy" into
"stir copy" and "strncpy' into
"stir n copy', without the dictionary replacements they sound
maddeningly similar. Been using jaws for about 15 years.
On 9/17/22, Mike Pietruk <pietruk@...> wrote:
Soronel
it sounds as if, with all those dictionaries, you spend as much time doing
that as actually using JAWS.
If I were new at this -- I've been using screen readers for nearly 4
decades -- reading your msg would make run, not walk away, from JAWS.
Why, someone might ask? If I have to do all that to get a program to work
for me, I think I might be better off with something simpler.
When getting into Windows and away from the Apple IIe in the 1990s, I
chose Window-Eyes as I was scared away by the seemingly complex JAWS
licensing.
Frankly, I was mistaken as I later discovered when Window-Eyes was bought
out, but the straightforwardness of installing WE had a newby to Windows
far more comfortable.
One can do massive amounts of customizing in Jaws -- as was in Window-Eyes
-- but the beauty of JAWS also is that it can work quite well in its basic
customization.
What I suggest to the original questioner is don't overthink this.
First, learn the program and then figure out if you really have to do a
lot of changes.
And keep copies of your ENU directory so you can easily revert to another
JFW set up if your playing around messes things up.
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Steve Nutt
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, and I don't like different voices in any context, because they
cause unnecessary pauses, albeit they are short ones.
But as you say, it is completely personal this.
All the best
Steve
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I'm with you, and I don't like different voices in any context, because they
cause unnecessary pauses, albeit they are short ones.
But as you say, it is completely personal this.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: 17 September 2022 21:23
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking all
of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but that's
me.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: 17 September 2022 21:23
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking all
of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but that's
me.
K0LNY
I always have wished story writers would use something to denote a male
speaker and a female speaker, so we could set a synthesizer to read one sort
of text with a female TTS and the other with a male TTS.
I've wondered if they used a different font for the text of the dialog, if
Jaws could be set to read one font with a different TTS than the other.
Glenn
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
speaker and a female speaker, so we could set a synthesizer to read one sort
of text with a female TTS and the other with a male TTS.
I've wondered if they used a different font for the text of the dialog, if
Jaws could be set to read one font with a different TTS than the other.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2022 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, and I don't like different voices in any context, because they
cause unnecessary pauses, albeit they are short ones.
But as you say, it is completely personal this.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: 17 September 2022 21:23
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking all
of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but that's
me.
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2022 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, and I don't like different voices in any context, because they
cause unnecessary pauses, albeit they are short ones.
But as you say, it is completely personal this.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: 17 September 2022 21:23
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Managing the cognitive load of listening
Mark
This is really a very personal question; and it's not so much a JAWS
question; but one using a screen reader in general.
I take it that you are new at this; and the best suggestion I can make is
play around and see what you are most comfortable with.
Your use of the word cognative suggests to me that you are overthinking all
of this.
Some people like reading fast; others prefer regular speech rates.
Some prefer one voice for everything; and others may assign a different
voice for different things.
In short, it takes time to become comfortable using a screen reader as a
way to deal with the pc screen.
Personally, I try not to overdo adjustments and customization -- but that's
me.