moderated stop update


David Diamond
 

You pretty much answered your own question.  By your own admission, you live with an experienced techie. Isn’t that always the way?  Like the leader of one of the blind agencies, can’t remember exactly which one, NFB or ACB. Regardless he touted living an independent life as well as traveling independently yet he himself had a driver to drive him wherever he wanted and he used that same driver to give him sighted guidance all the time. Where is the independence in that?  Windows 7, they are the first to complain that it can’t do what or have the speed like the 10, now the 11. Which is like expecting a model T to go as fast as a Porsche.     

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: August 29, 2022 9:37 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

 

 

You pretty much answered your own question.  By your own admission, you live with an experienced techie.  But what about the overwhelming majority of blind computer  users who are not so lucky or may not even have sighted help on hand to bail them out when an update causes unexpected problems or  loss of speech? I have an even simpler solution for avoiding automatic updates.  Just stick with Windows 7.  Go ahead and laugh or scare monger about how this exposes you to malware attacks.  Remember all the naysayers who predicted gloom and doom, including some on this list, by staying with Windows 7 after support for it eneded?  It turned out to be much ado about nothing.  For the record, Windows 7 still has a larger share of the Windows market than Windows 11, which tells you something about its enduring legacy. Just ask Microsoft expert Paul Therrot or the thousands of blind computer users who still swear by it and never have to worry about an update causing unanticipated trouble.  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 8/29/2022 11:47 AM, Karen Reynolds wrote:

The sad thing is that updates are often blamed as being bad, when in reality, often there is a change in the way the OS works. Windows over the years has added and removed features. Some people thing the update is bad because they suddenly can't do something they could before the update. It most likely means windows removed that feature.
 
I live with a tech who has been one for 35+ years, working on networks. Security, privacy, etc are all critical. I applaud Apple for sending out their most recent update. It now should prevent someone from taking over my phone when it is not in their physical possession. They could have waited until their new version comes out next month, but they took security seriously and sent it out now, rather than just including it as part of the yearly update to a new version.
 
For me, automatic updates are on, no exceptions. I try to learn to do things in at least two ways in case the OS company decides to remove the feature I am using. And I practice them.
 
For the person who does not want automatic updates at all. My husband has a solution. Two computers, both running the same thing, same OS, same everything. One is a test and has automatic updates turned on. The other is the production computer and has automatic updates turned off, but downloads the updates so they are ready to install. As soon as an update is available, the person has to check the test computer to see if it all works. Then they have to update the production computer. This is a lot of work and a lot of time spent that isn't necessary. Most of the time by the time we get the update, it has gone through beta. If something breaks on our end, it is because we have set something odd on our computer, which is why I am careful about changing settings.
 
In all the years I've had a computer, I've seen one buggy update and the solution came out quickly. I think it was around the turn of the century. That was many years ago. Considering how "new" computers are to the universe, we have come a long way. Given all the thieves in the world, I would rather have my computer and phone update as soon as one comes out. I sent a link earlier in the year that lists the vulnerabilities for operating systems. If one is a zero day, I want the update now and installed now. The way to get that is automatic updates. I am not going to sit on my computer all day and watch for updates. I have loads of other things to do. Off to do them. <smile>
 
Karen
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 10:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update
 
I guess I'm in the minority then.  I've not had the problems some have had with the updates either with windows or IOS. Sometimes I think people complain because they can, or, there is something else going on and the update is blamed.   
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James English
Sent: August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update
 
Hi Brian,
 
IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants them or not.
 
- James
 
On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do 
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.
 
When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, 
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical 
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by 
decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for 
the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, 
but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not 
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can 
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than 
"the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and 
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far 
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were 
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--
 
Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
 
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Gerald Levy
 


You pretty much answered your own question.  By your own admission, you live with an experienced techie.  But what about the overwhelming majority of blind computer  users who are not so lucky or may not even have sighted help on hand to bail them out when an update causes unexpected problems or  loss of speech? I have an even simpler solution for avoiding automatic updates.  Just stick with Windows 7.  Go ahead and laugh or scare monger about how this exposes you to malware attacks.  Remember all the naysayers who predicted gloom and doom, including some on this list, by staying with Windows 7 after support for it eneded?  It turned out to be much ado about nothing.  For the record, Windows 7 still has a larger share of the Windows market than Windows 11, which tells you something about its enduring legacy. Just ask Microsoft expert Paul Therrot or the thousands of blind computer users who still swear by it and never have to worry about an update causing unanticipated trouble.  


Gerald


 

On 8/29/2022 11:47 AM, Karen Reynolds wrote:

The sad thing is that updates are often blamed as being bad, when in reality, often there is a change in the way the OS works. Windows over the years has added and removed features. Some people thing the update is bad because they suddenly can't do something they could before the update. It most likely means windows removed that feature.

I live with a tech who has been one for 35+ years, working on networks. Security, privacy, etc are all critical. I applaud Apple for sending out their most recent update. It now should prevent someone from taking over my phone when it is not in their physical possession. They could have waited until their new version comes out next month, but they took security seriously and sent it out now, rather than just including it as part of the yearly update to a new version.

For me, automatic updates are on, no exceptions. I try to learn to do things in at least two ways in case the OS company decides to remove the feature I am using. And I practice them.

For the person who does not want automatic updates at all. My husband has a solution. Two computers, both running the same thing, same OS, same everything. One is a test and has automatic updates turned on. The other is the production computer and has automatic updates turned off, but downloads the updates so they are ready to install. As soon as an update is available, the person has to check the test computer to see if it all works. Then they have to update the production computer. This is a lot of work and a lot of time spent that isn't necessary. Most of the time by the time we get the update, it has gone through beta. If something breaks on our end, it is because we have set something odd on our computer, which is why I am careful about changing settings.

In all the years I've had a computer, I've seen one buggy update and the solution came out quickly. I think it was around the turn of the century. That was many years ago. Considering how "new" computers are to the universe, we have come a long way. Given all the thieves in the world, I would rather have my computer and phone update as soon as one comes out. I sent a link earlier in the year that lists the vulnerabilities for operating systems. If one is a zero day, I want the update now and installed now. The way to get that is automatic updates. I am not going to sit on my computer all day and watch for updates. I have loads of other things to do. Off to do them. <smile>

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 10:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

I guess I'm in the minority then.  I've not had the problems some have had with the updates either with windows or IOS. Sometimes I think people complain because they can, or, there is something else going on and the update is blamed.   

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James English
Sent: August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do 
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, 
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical 
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by 
decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for 
the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, 
but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not 
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can 
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than 
"the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and 
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far 
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were 
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






















Karen Reynolds
 

The sad thing is that updates are often blamed as being bad, when in reality, often there is a change in the way the OS works. Windows over the years has added and removed features. Some people thing the update is bad because they suddenly can't do something they could before the update. It most likely means windows removed that feature.

I live with a tech who has been one for 35+ years, working on networks. Security, privacy, etc are all critical. I applaud Apple for sending out their most recent update. It now should prevent someone from taking over my phone when it is not in their physical possession. They could have waited until their new version comes out next month, but they took security seriously and sent it out now, rather than just including it as part of the yearly update to a new version.

For me, automatic updates are on, no exceptions. I try to learn to do things in at least two ways in case the OS company decides to remove the feature I am using. And I practice them.

For the person who does not want automatic updates at all. My husband has a solution. Two computers, both running the same thing, same OS, same everything. One is a test and has automatic updates turned on. The other is the production computer and has automatic updates turned off, but downloads the updates so they are ready to install. As soon as an update is available, the person has to check the test computer to see if it all works. Then they have to update the production computer. This is a lot of work and a lot of time spent that isn't necessary. Most of the time by the time we get the update, it has gone through beta. If something breaks on our end, it is because we have set something odd on our computer, which is why I am careful about changing settings.

In all the years I've had a computer, I've seen one buggy update and the solution came out quickly. I think it was around the turn of the century. That was many years ago. Considering how "new" computers are to the universe, we have come a long way. Given all the thieves in the world, I would rather have my computer and phone update as soon as one comes out. I sent a link earlier in the year that lists the vulnerabilities for operating systems. If one is a zero day, I want the update now and installed now. The way to get that is automatic updates. I am not going to sit on my computer all day and watch for updates. I have loads of other things to do. Off to do them. <smile>

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 10:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

I guess I'm in the minority then. I've not had the problems some have had with the updates either with windows or IOS. Sometimes I think people complain because they can, or, there is something else going on and the update is blamed.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James English
Sent: August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android,
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency. Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by
decades of work in the computing field. The disastrous update is, for
the most part, an urban myth. It's not that they never, ever happen,
but they are extremely infrequent. And the solution to that is not
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups. Your computer can
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than
"the bad update." If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






 

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 09:56 AM, Loy wrote:
You do have automatic updates if you choose in IOS. And you do have a choice in Windows to postpone updates.
-
Every OS in existence these days (that's not an antique, I don't count things like people still running XP) has automatic updates on by default.  This has been the case for decades, and most do not give you the option to turn them off.  Windows will not apply most cumulative updates, and any feature updates, until one of two things happens:
1. The user grants permission.
2. The user has refused permission for so long that the specific version of Windows they are using is going out of support.
Fully automatic updates for things other than "Patch Tuesday" patches and security updates has been a thing of the past for quite a while now.

One of the most critical things to update are operating systems.  That's a fact.  And anyone who believes that the only security updates to Windows, or any other OS, are only those announced as such is kidding themselves.  Security patches are often part of cumulative and feature updates.

And, with this post, I am going to bow out.  There have been plenty of words to the wise, and to avoid OS updates for fear of a "bad update" is the very definition of foolhardy.  And if you don't have a backup protocol in place, get one.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


David Diamond
 

I guess I'm in the minority then. I've not had the problems some have had with the updates either with windows or IOS. Sometimes I think people complain because they can, or, there is something else going on and the update is blamed.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James English
Sent: August 29, 2022 6:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do
not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android,
or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by
decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for
the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen,
but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not
avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can
fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than
"the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and
follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far
more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were
easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






Loy
 

You do have automatic updates if you choose in IOS. And you do have a choice in Windows to postpone updates.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: stop update


Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the
latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility
bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the
case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants
them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do not
hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, or
any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency. Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by decades
of work in the computing field. The disastrous update is, for the most
part, an urban myth. It's not that they never, ever happen, but they are
extremely infrequent. And the solution to that is not avoiding updates, but
by taking routine backups. Your computer can fail for a variety of reasons,
and almost all are more common than "the bad update." If you don't have a
backup protocol in place, and follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now
in the age of SSDs far more than it was for the last several decades of
HDDs, which were easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure
than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






James English
 

Hi Brian,

IOS doesn't have automatic updates. If I don't want to update to the
latest version of IOS, as I often don't given how often accessibility
bugs are reported, I can wait until they're fixed. This is not the
case with windows, where updates are installed whether the user wants
them or not.

- James

On 8/29/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do not
hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, or
any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical
consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by decades
of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for the most
part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, but they are
extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not avoiding updates, but
by taking routine backups.  Your computer can fail for a variety of reasons,
and almost all are more common than "the bad update."  If you don't have a
backup protocol in place, and follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now
in the age of SSDs far more than it was for the last several decades of
HDDs, which were easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure
than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If
you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall






 

It never, ever seems to strike anyone as odd, in any way, that we do not hear this inanity about automatic updates about any OS other than Windows.

When and if I ever hear someone saying this about MacOS, iOS, Android, or any one of the many Linux distros then we can talk about logical consistency.  Until then, it's an irrational fear not borne out by decades of work in the computing field.  The disastrous update is, for the most part, an urban myth.  It's not that they never, ever happen, but they are extremely infrequent.  And the solution to that is not avoiding updates, but by taking routine backups.  Your computer can fail for a variety of reasons, and almost all are more common than "the bad update."  If you don't have a backup protocol in place, and follow it, then the clock is ticking, and now in the age of SSDs far more than it was for the last several decades of HDDs, which were easier to do recovery from in the event of drive failure than SSDs are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


James English
 

Hi,

I must agree with Gene here. Automatic updates without the ability for
the end user to pick and choose are not something I can ever be in
favour of, and the completely inflexible approach that microsoft uses
just seems counterproductive to me. You can either have all the
updates, which you may or may not want, or if you know what you're
doing you can have none of the updates. Personally I would choose to
only have security updates and pick and choose what else I get (such
as the one which makes internet explorer stop working.)

- James K-E

On 8/29/22, David Diamond <Daviddiamond2019@...> wrote:
I go all the way back to XP and have never had any problems. Perhaps I'm
blessed. I know when 10 first came out some waited till it was downloaded
even if it took months before MS downloaded it. Then of course the download
happened at a inopportune time, while he was going to travel on the bus to
another town.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: August 28, 2022 5:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

At the end of the day, exactly! It is my computer, not Microsoft's, it is my
right to choose what goes on it and what does not.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 8:29 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I
wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.

On 8/28/2022 7:26 PM, Loy wrote:
I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when
I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed
up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* David Diamond <mailto:Daviddiamond2019@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my
opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to
control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone
wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service
(Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any
reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is
sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>














David Diamond
 

I go all the way back to XP and have never had any problems. Perhaps I'm blessed. I know when 10 first came out some waited till it was downloaded even if it took months before MS downloaded it. Then of course the download happened at a inopportune time, while he was going to travel on the bus to another town.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: August 28, 2022 5:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: stop update

At the end of the day, exactly! It is my computer, not Microsoft's, it is my right to choose what goes on it and what does not.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 8:29 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I
wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.

On 8/28/2022 7:26 PM, Loy wrote:
I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when
I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed
up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* David Diamond <mailto:Daviddiamond2019@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my
opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to
control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone
wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service
(Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any
reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is
sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>





Fred
 

I bet I could... your name in the sand!

On 8/28/2022 8:45 PM, Loy wrote:
Well, How do you determan which updates  to install or not to install?



----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: stop update


It will be very interesting to see your thoughts on the subject do a very quick 180 after you've had to deal with an update that does major harm to your system that you can't stop from being installed except to disable the update service.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:54 PM, David Diamond wrote:
for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
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*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service (Windows 10 and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any reason. It wasn't a great idea in the past, either. A word to the wise is sufficient.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall












Loy
 

Well, How do you determan which updates to install or not to install?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: stop update


It will be very interesting to see your thoughts on the subject do a very quick 180 after you've had to deal with an update that does major harm to your system that you can't stop from being installed except to disable the update service.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:54 PM, David Diamond wrote:
for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service (Windows 10 and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any reason. It wasn't a great idea in the past, either. A word to the wise is sufficient.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall








Gene Warner
 

At the end of the day, exactly! It is my computer, not Microsoft's, it is my right to choose what goes on it and what does not.

Gene...

On 8/28/2022 8:29 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.
On 8/28/2022 7:26 PM, Loy wrote:
I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.

----- Original Message -----
*From:* David Diamond <mailto:Daviddiamond2019@...>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my
opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to
control every single thing

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
Warner <genewarner3@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: stop update
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone
wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service
(Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any
reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is
sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>





 

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 08:34 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I'm not going to argue the point any more so you can stop posting, I will just delete any further responses without reading them.
-
As I said earlier.  A word to the wise is sufficient.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


Gene Warner
 

I' going to laugh when you go to turn on your computer after an automatic update and you find that you have a very fancy boat anchor. And I have never had a system stop working because some update wasn't applied, but can't begin to count the number of times I've had to rescue a system from a badly behaving update.

I have been working with computers, maintaining and repairing them since 1980, so I do believe I know what I'm talking about and that I am speaking from lots of experience.

I'm not going to argue the point any more so you can stop posting, I will just delete any further responses without reading them.

Gene...

On 8/28/2022 8:23 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 08:19 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I never have and never will believe that automatic updates that the
end user has no control over when needed is ever a good idea.
-
And having had to pick up the smoldering ashes, many times, of systems that were brought to that state by refusal to apply updates, we shall never agree.
I believe the people who create and maintain operating systems, all of them, know far more than you do or I do.  And someone now retired who was a BSOD expert on a forum I once frequented said it best, and is the final word for me:
There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install /*_all_*/ available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.
        ~ John Carrona, AKA *usasma* <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/u/35824/usasma/> on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/ <http://www.carrona.org/>
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall


 

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 08:29 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.
-
No one has argued that point.  It's absolutely true.

But that's a completely separate issue from the wisdom (or lack thereof) of refusing to allow updates to apply.

Actions and inactions have consequences.  And when it comes to OS updates, almost invariably the consequences of failing to apply them, when they eventually occur, are serious through catastrophic.  So if you choose to turn automatic updating off, that result should be expected, sooner or later.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


Howard Traxler
 

Well, it's my computer!  I think that means it's mine to do with as I wish; or to not do with as I don't wish.

On 8/28/2022 7:26 PM, Loy wrote:

I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to control every single thing

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene Warner <genewarner3@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: stop update
 
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service (Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>






Loy
 

I have never had a Windows update mess up my Windows OS, except when I tried Windows Insider for a while and one of those updates messed up the OS. After that I got out of the Windows Insider.
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: stop update

for what it's worth, people to prevent automatic updates, in my opinion, have serious control issues. In other words they want to control every single thing

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Gene Warner <genewarner3@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 4:49:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: stop update
 
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone wants to
stop the update service they must have a good reason.

Gene...


On 8/28/2022 7:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> It needs to be said that in the age of Windows as a Service (Windows 10
> and 11) that blocking updates is very ill-advised, for any reason.  It
> wasn't a great idea in the past, either.  A word to the wise is sufficient.
> --
>
> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>
> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
> If you’re alive, it isn’t.
> *     ~ Lauren Bacall
>
>






 

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 08:19 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I never have and never will believe that automatic updates that the end user has no control over when needed is ever a good idea.
-
And having had to pick up the smoldering ashes, many times, of systems that were brought to that state by refusal to apply updates, we shall never agree.

I believe the people who create and maintain operating systems, all of them, know far more than you do or I do.  And someone now retired who was a BSOD expert on a forum I once frequented said it best, and is the final word for me:


There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

        ~ John Carrona, AKA usasma on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


Gene Warner
 

The problem with your line of thinking is that the very entity that created the update and the system being updated cannot test it against all possible configurations, and there will always be configurations that updates will not work with and so cause serious problems for the end user.

I never have and never will believe that automatic updates that the end user has no control over when needed is ever a good idea.

Anyone who thinks that Microsoft or Apple or any other company knows everything and can be trusted to always put out well behaved updates is either very naive or simply don't care enough about the health of their system to be bothered. In which case you will eventually get what you deserve.

I would love it if I didn't have to be concerned about what Microsoft pushes out, but even in the past few years there have been several times when Microsoft has had to withdraw an update to Windows because of the wide spread problems it creates. So I always do a full system backup on the Monday before each patch Tuesday, and pray that Microsoft gets it right this time.

Gene...

Gene...

On 8/28/2022 8:03 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 07:49 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
On principle, I agree; however, having been a victim of automatic
updates that do more harm than good, I figure that if someone wants
to stop the update service they must have a good reason.
-
Gene,
I can count on less than two hands, in my entire time in the computing industry, where an update has done more harm than good.  The "bad update" as a common thing was always a figment of the imagination, and even when they occurred, and they did on rare occasion, the patch fixes were usually very prompt.
This was before the age of Windows as a Service, where updates are not pushed out to all the world in one fell swoop, but initially in small sized cohorts, telemetry monitored, with each successive cohort getting larger until Microsoft is confident that it can go out to "the rest of the world."  Most bad updates get stopped in their tracks quite early these days, and fixed before they ever make it to the majority of machines.
So I cannot share your confidence that most who want to block updates have good reasons.  My experience and observation suggests precisely the opposite, where an end user believes they know better than the very entity that invented and maintains the operating system they use.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall