-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 2:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

Late to the party here, but have a question on bill pay. I was thinking of trying this with my bank. Till now, I either set up recurring payments directly with the vendor or handle the bill as it comes in. I was thinking about trying this for doctor's bills and such that come in periodically by mail. So, if I set up my doctor as a payee, what do you do to tell the doctor what the payment is for, especially if multiple family members are at the same doctor? I mean, I'd think they could figure it out, but the paper bills always have the portion you tear off and you are supposed to write the invoice or account number on the check you send in. So, have any of you paid a paper bill this way with online bill pay? Do you have AIRA or OCR software read you the information to populate the payee information on your bank's site? Then, Is there a way you notate what that payment is for when you press the Go button to pay? Just wondering if this would be easier than waiting for someone sighted to help me with paper bills. I don't get a lot, as many offices are going to online portals for payment.

Robin
I



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.


I find it very convenient to set up as many of my bills for auto pay as I can on the condition that I be notified of the bill in advance of when it is paid. If they won't notify me in advance then I don't use auto pay for that biller.

Gene...


On 7/28/2022 5:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 05:31 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Now the bills will go directly to your bank and they will send
payment to the payee and you are cut out of the loop till the end of
the month when you get a list on your monthly statement. Are all
banks now using this system?

-
No, and even those that do (one of mine does) give you the option to
use automatic payment (where they just pay whatever comes in) or to
follow the usual protocol where they notify you a bill has arrived,
and you must log in to pay it.

This is being driven as much by many billers as the banks. They've
found that payments often "slip through the cracks" when customers
have to log in to multiple sites to even see their bills then either
pay them from there or log out and then log in to their bank to pay them.

It's really quite convenient to centralize all bill paying in one
place and to have all of your electronic bills show up in your bank's
bill payer. You still choose whether payment is automatic or you must
authorize. It actually peeves me that one, and only one, of my
utility bills refuses to set up such that the bill goes to my bill
payer and I get notified that it's there for me to pay. I don't know
of a single bank that does "enforced automatic" or they'd lose
customers, as people could easily be bouncing the equivalent of checks
left and right if making payments is contingent on actual cash flow
(and it very often is). Many don't have tons of cash lying about in
their bank accounts that serves as a cushion and where no bill would
be larger than that cushion.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

KeyCorp Public

KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. prohibits the use of texts or other unapproved messaging applications for business purposes.

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association (“KeyBank N.A.”). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114

If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.

On 7/29/2022 3:01 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 12:21 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
I Personally will never go back to paper as long as I am able.
-
Same here, and for many of the same reasons you've mentioned, but accessibility not being one of them in my specific case.
I have never been so happy as when I can eliminate paper of any kind and use e-delivery whether that's for bills, statements, etc., etc., etc. And in the case of e-delivery for bills, all I've ever encountered are either accessible in the preview mode supported by the online bill pay at the bank (or bill-paying site) or you can download the PDF equivalent of a paper statement, which is by its very nature more accessible as soon as it hits your computer than paper ever can be.   OCR is almost miraculously accurate these days, but it's still a step that can be avoided in a lot of cases.
Medical bills are one of the very few types that I still receive in paper form and with no option for e-delivery.  Most of those do either give you an online payment portal to go to where they can be paid via credit card and/or a QR code that will take you straight to the portal, with all information related to the bill already filled in and ready to go, where all you do is enter the payment information for that transaction.
I'm really coming to love mobile banking and its related analogs and just due to exactly when all these mobile apps came into being, accessibility is far more reliably "baked in" than it is for a lot of websites of older vintage (or even newer vintage where accessibility was just not considered though that's becoming somewhat less common).
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

On 7/29/2022 3:00 PM, Lori Lynn wrote:

I currently use a small bank in Iowa, but I've done the same thing with a larger bank when I was paying my Aunt's bills. I type in the name of the payer, their address and phone, and account number. Once it has been entered it stays on the banks page. Then when I get a bill that I need to pay I enter the amount and select pay. Some of the payments my bank sends electronically, but others they print out a paper check and mail it. I decide what bills are paid this way and when. It's extremely easy and I don't have to get assistance from anyone during the process.
Lori Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 1:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
Late to the party here, but have a question on bill pay. I was thinking of trying this with my bank. Till now, I either set up recurring payments directly with the vendor or handle the bill as it comes in. I was thinking about trying this for doctor's bills and such that come in periodically by mail. So, if I set up my doctor as a payee, what do you do to tell the doctor what the payment is for, especially if multiple family members are at the same doctor? I mean, I'd think they could figure it out, but the paper bills always have the portion you tear off and you are supposed to write the invoice or account number on the check you send in. So, have any of you paid a paper bill this way with online bill pay? Do you have AIRA or OCR software read you the information to populate the payee information on your bank's site? Then, Is there a way you notate what that payment is for when you press the Go button to pay? Just wondering if this would be easier than waiting for someone sighted to help me with paper bills. I don't get a lot, as many offices are going to online portals for payment.
Robin
I
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.
I find it very convenient to set up as many of my bills for auto pay as I can on the condition that I be notified of the bill in advance of when it is paid. If they won't notify me in advance then I don't use auto pay for that biller.
Gene...
On 7/28/2022 5:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 05:31 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Now the bills will go directly to your bank and they will send
payment to the payee and you are cut out of the loop till the end of
the month when you get a list on your monthly statement. Are all
banks now using this system?

-
No, and even those that do (one of mine does) give you the option to
use automatic payment (where they just pay whatever comes in) or to
follow the usual protocol where they notify you a bill has arrived,
and you must log in to pay it.

This is being driven as much by many billers as the banks. They've
found that payments often "slip through the cracks" when customers
have to log in to multiple sites to even see their bills then either
pay them from there or log out and then log in to their bank to pay them.

It's really quite convenient to centralize all bill paying in one
place and to have all of your electronic bills show up in your bank's
bill payer. You still choose whether payment is automatic or you must
authorize. It actually peeves me that one, and only one, of my
utility bills refuses to set up such that the bill goes to my bill
payer and I get notified that it's there for me to pay. I don't know
of a single bank that does "enforced automatic" or they'd lose
customers, as people could easily be bouncing the equivalent of checks
left and right if making payments is contingent on actual cash flow
(and it very often is). Many don't have tons of cash lying about in
their bank accounts that serves as a cushion and where no bill would
be larger than that cushion.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you're alive, it isn't.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

KeyCorp Public
KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. prohibits the use of texts or other unapproved messaging applications for business purposes.
This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.
This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.
The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association ("KeyBank N.A."). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.
127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 1:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

Late to the party here, but have a question on bill pay. I was thinking of trying this with my bank. Till now, I either set up recurring payments directly with the vendor or handle the bill as it comes in. I was thinking about trying this for doctor's bills and such that come in periodically by mail. So, if I set up my doctor as a payee, what do you do to tell the doctor what the payment is for, especially if multiple family members are at the same doctor? I mean, I'd think they could figure it out, but the paper bills always have the portion you tear off and you are supposed to write the invoice or account number on the check you send in. So, have any of you paid a paper bill this way with online bill pay? Do you have AIRA or OCR software read you the information to populate the payee information on your bank's site? Then, Is there a way you notate what that payment is for when you press the Go button to pay? Just wondering if this would be easier than waiting for someone sighted to help me with paper bills. I don't get a lot, as many offices are going to online portals for payment.

Robin
I



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.


I find it very convenient to set up as many of my bills for auto pay as I can on the condition that I be notified of the bill in advance of when it is paid. If they won't notify me in advance then I don't use auto pay for that biller.

Gene...


On 7/28/2022 5:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 05:31 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Now the bills will go directly to your bank and they will send
payment to the payee and you are cut out of the loop till the end of
the month when you get a list on your monthly statement. Are all
banks now using this system?

-
No, and even those that do (one of mine does) give you the option to
use automatic payment (where they just pay whatever comes in) or to
follow the usual protocol where they notify you a bill has arrived,
and you must log in to pay it.

This is being driven as much by many billers as the banks. They've
found that payments often "slip through the cracks" when customers
have to log in to multiple sites to even see their bills then either
pay them from there or log out and then log in to their bank to pay them.

It's really quite convenient to centralize all bill paying in one
place and to have all of your electronic bills show up in your bank's
bill payer. You still choose whether payment is automatic or you must
authorize. It actually peeves me that one, and only one, of my
utility bills refuses to set up such that the bill goes to my bill
payer and I get notified that it's there for me to pay. I don't know
of a single bank that does "enforced automatic" or they'd lose
customers, as people could easily be bouncing the equivalent of checks
left and right if making payments is contingent on actual cash flow
(and it very often is). Many don't have tons of cash lying about in
their bank accounts that serves as a cushion and where no bill would
be larger than that cushion.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you're alive, it isn't.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

KeyCorp Public

KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. prohibits the use of texts or other unapproved messaging applications for business purposes.

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association ("KeyBank N.A."). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114

If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 9:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

I agree with you, unfortunately not everyone else does, I just got a
bill from a local hospital that wanted me to pay online but their
payment portal wasn't friendly to my screen reader so I couldn't use it
and had to tell them to send me a paper bill.

Gene...


On 7/29/2022 12:21 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:

Hi,

I Personally will never go back to paper as long as I am able. Such an
inconvenient process, though your mileage may vary of course. Normally
it also has accessibility barriers in some form or another for those of
us who can’t read or fully write print.

Having the ability to simply read a bill directly via phone or computer
without the issues of scanning a document, to pay that bill
electronically without having to go through the process of writing a
check (assistance usually required). I can budget via excel spreadsheets
and have everything written down as far as when each bill is due, when
it will be automatically withdrawn.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *T. Civitello
*Sent:* Thursday, July 28, 2022 5:33 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: bank on line bill pay

Under the former system each bill paid said it was paid electronically.
Oh well back to writing and mailing checks. Tom

*From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>

*Sent:*Thursday, July 28, 2022 3:25 PM

*To:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: bank on line bill pay

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 06:10 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Citi bank is now forcing me to the system where the bills go
directly to the bank. My bills come to me by mail and that is the way

I want it to remain. Tom

-
You're mixing two different issues.

If your bank is insisting on going to all electronic delivery, and you
don't want that, then you are going to have to change banks.

What's going on now in the billing world is very analogous to what went
on decades ago with regard to direct deposit. Billers and banks both
want to minimize paper and the possibility of bills getting lost,
misdirected, or "slipping through the cracks" as they can whether via
the mail or once they've arrived at an individual's home. What's
interesting is that most government services, such as water/sewer/trash
where I live, cannot be billed electronically, though you can pay them
via a bank bill payer but the payment is actually cut by check.

Eventually, paper bills will be a thing of the past. But you have
plenty of other options for banking. Your bank (whatever it may be)
sets its policies and those policies may drive you away as a customer.
That's certainly been true for me in the past.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
* ~ Lauren Bacall

On 7/29/2022 2:45 PM, Van Lant, Robin via groups.io wrote:

Late to the party here, but have a question on bill pay. I was thinking of trying this with my bank. Till now, I either set up recurring payments directly with the vendor or handle the bill as it comes in. I was thinking about trying this for doctor's bills and such that come in periodically by mail. So, if I set up my doctor as a payee, what do you do to tell the doctor what the payment is for, especially if multiple family members are at the same doctor? I mean, I'd think they could figure it out, but the paper bills always have the portion you tear off and you are supposed to write the invoice or account number on the check you send in. So, have any of you paid a paper bill this way with online bill pay? Do you have AIRA or OCR software read you the information to populate the payee information on your bank's site? Then, Is there a way you notate what that payment is for when you press the Go button to pay? Just wondering if this would be easier than waiting for someone sighted to help me with paper bills. I don't get a lot, as many offices are going to online portals for payment.
Robin
I
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.
I find it very convenient to set up as many of my bills for auto pay as I can on the condition that I be notified of the bill in advance of when it is paid. If they won't notify me in advance then I don't use auto pay for that biller.
Gene...
On 7/28/2022 5:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 05:31 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Now the bills will go directly to your bank and they will send
payment to the payee and you are cut out of the loop till the end of
the month when you get a list on your monthly statement. Are all
banks now using this system?

-
No, and even those that do (one of mine does) give you the option to
use automatic payment (where they just pay whatever comes in) or to
follow the usual protocol where they notify you a bill has arrived,
and you must log in to pay it.

This is being driven as much by many billers as the banks. They've
found that payments often "slip through the cracks" when customers
have to log in to multiple sites to even see their bills then either
pay them from there or log out and then log in to their bank to pay them.

It's really quite convenient to centralize all bill paying in one
place and to have all of your electronic bills show up in your bank's
bill payer. You still choose whether payment is automatic or you must
authorize. It actually peeves me that one, and only one, of my
utility bills refuses to set up such that the bill goes to my bill
payer and I get notified that it's there for me to pay. I don't know
of a single bank that does "enforced automatic" or they'd lose
customers, as people could easily be bouncing the equivalent of checks
left and right if making payments is contingent on actual cash flow
(and it very often is). Many don't have tons of cash lying about in
their bank accounts that serves as a cushion and where no bill would
be larger than that cushion.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

KeyCorp Public
KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. prohibits the use of texts or other unapproved messaging applications for business purposes.
This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.
This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.
The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association (“KeyBank N.A.”). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.
127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.


I find it very convenient to set up as many of my bills for auto pay as I can on the condition that I be notified of the bill in advance of when it is paid. If they won't notify me in advance then I don't use auto pay for that biller.

Gene...


On 7/28/2022 5:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 05:31 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Now the bills will go directly to your bank and they will send
payment to the payee and you are cut out of the loop till the end of
the month when you get a list on your monthly statement. Are all
banks now using this system?

-
No, and even those that do (one of mine does) give you the option to
use automatic payment (where they just pay whatever comes in) or to
follow the usual protocol where they notify you a bill has arrived,
and you must log in to pay it.

This is being driven as much by many billers as the banks. They've
found that payments often "slip through the cracks" when customers
have to log in to multiple sites to even see their bills then either
pay them from there or log out and then log in to their bank to pay them.

It's really quite convenient to centralize all bill paying in one
place and to have all of your electronic bills show up in your bank's
bill payer. You still choose whether payment is automatic or you must
authorize. It actually peeves me that one, and only one, of my
utility bills refuses to set up such that the bill goes to my bill
payer and I get notified that it's there for me to pay. I don't know
of a single bank that does "enforced automatic" or they'd lose
customers, as people could easily be bouncing the equivalent of checks
left and right if making payments is contingent on actual cash flow
(and it very often is). Many don't have tons of cash lying about in
their bank accounts that serves as a cushion and where no bill would
be larger than that cushion.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.
* ~ Lauren Bacall

KeyCorp Public

KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. prohibits the use of texts or other unapproved messaging applications for business purposes.

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association (“KeyBank N.A.”). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114

If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.

On 7/29/2022 12:38 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:

Hi,
I'd really hope this wouldn't be the new trend, either.
That being said, My bank has a list of options and a checkbox for recurring or not recurring as well as what date of the month this should be the case.
I do have this set up for bills which never change from month to month. It's so convenient especially when I have an option set to receive a notification on my Mobile the day before that a bill will be paid (or payment) will be processed. I also get notified the moment money is transferred into or out of any of my accounts, including credit card as it is also through my bank. I was able to catch a recent fraudulent charge on my credit card recently this way almost the second it happened. It was very interesting as several Uber rides were booked, all for $5 or $10 each, all in different locations until an automatic freeze was placed on the card. The notifications were about 45 seconds apart.
Mobile banking is highly recommended here for those who haven't tried.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:52 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
Hi, Tom. No. Bank of America does not use this system yet, and I hope they don't start. If I wanted recurring payments, I would have signed up for that.
Bill White
billwhite92701@...
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of T. Civitello
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 2:31 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
As I originally started this thread I thought I would try one more question:
My bank switched how they pay your bill. They used to have a list of your
payees, you clicked on the payee you wanted to pay and you were taken to a
dialogue where you entered the amount you wanted to pay. Now the bills
will go directly to your bank and they will send payment to the payee and
you are cut out of the loop till the end of the month when you get a list on
your monthly statement. Are all banks now using this system? Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
This is why it's essential to note all the details on your credit or debit
card when it arrives in the mail.
--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook
versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library
Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay
Before the first agent transferred me to the fraud department they first
closed my debit card and ordered me a new one for which I was charged $5,
then they gave me the direct number to the fraud department.
I used it the following day to dispute the charges and to get them removed.
They never offered to give me the email address to report fraud to.
Gene...
On 7/28/2022 4:23 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:

I wonder if you first called the number Chase assigns for reporting fraud.
Also, they have a dedicated email address for reporting fraud, which is
how I would have gone about it. An additional benefit, apart from
convenience, is that the email serves as a record of the timeliness of
your filing, which might be helpful in the event fraudulent charges need
to be removed.

Our local Chase branch has people you can talk to when you have problems.
It's an additional layer of support. One woman there now answers my calls
when I dial her directly.

--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook
versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library
Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 1:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

I beg to differ on Chase's phone support, and that is the reason I am
looking for a new bank. I recently had a problem with fraudulent charges
appearing in my account through my debit card. I called the bank to deal
with the problem, first I was told that my wait time would be 30 minutes,
then 30 minutes or so later that person told me that they couldn't help me
and that I needed to talk to their fraud department, then they transferred
me, I was then told that my wait time would be 50 minutes, I waited and
while I was waiting I played some games on my computer, later I checked
the time and realized that I had been waiting for two and a half hours and
was still waiting for someone to answer the phone. That's not what I call
good customer service!

Gene...


On 7/28/2022 12:54 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:

If trust is the issue, opening accounts at two banks only doubles the
anxiety. It happens I do have accounts at both Chase and BofA. I find
Chase's website needlessly complicated but manageable, while BofA's is
simpler. However, BofA's phone customer service is terrible, while
Chase's phone and on-location service is good.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelly
Pierce
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

Why not open accounts at both Chase and Bank of America and then try out
their websites and iPhone apps? After a few months, close the account you
like least.

Kelly



On 7/26/22, Howard Traxler <htraxler7@...> wrote:

I don't seem to trust my (an any other) bank to protect my account.
e issued a paper check to a grand daughter, not of a significant
amount, and she managed to cash it twice; and how many more times
before we caught the problem. As long as the recipient hangs on to
your check, who's to say how many times they can cash it?

Howard


On 7/26/2022 3:05 PM, Larry Thacker Jr. wrote:

Some aps are better than others at this. The Bank of America app
for iOS does a good jog of giving you directions and then
automatically snapping the pic when it’s right. I was surprised to
find that the app for a local bank I’ve been evaluating did this as
well. I am finding a few holes in it, but overall the app and web
site designed by Computer Services Inc. (CSI) seems to work pretty
well. A tell may be that when you go to online banking the web site
address reads yourbankname.mybanking.net. One caveat though, the
security lacks true two-factor authentication. As much as I want
to perf local business over mega corporations that don’t have my
interests at heart, this may ultimately be a deal breaker for me.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 26, 2022 2:10 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: bank on line bill pay

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

You have to take pictures of the front and back of the check.

-
Well, yes, as that's how any mobile banking app gets the data
necessary to deposit the check and to have the legally required
images (when the bank processes the checks normally they're
scanned, and images are saved).

When it comes to things like this, it's always easier to enlist
sighted assistance, once, to get a "photo rig" set up for your
smartphone. I've done this on multiple occasions, and not just for
banking apps, so that the phone can be placed on top of the rig
(which is usually a small cardboard box, cut into what amounts to a
small table with an opening large enough for the smartphone's
camera to be able to take photos of items placed "on the floor"
(table top or desk top in reality) beneath the rig. Once set up
this tends to work like a charm for as long as the rig remains viable.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
* ~ Lauren Bacall

--
It's so convenient when you folks sign your messages with your name
(or even an alias). Then I don't have to close the message and look
through the headings to find the originator.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:52 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

Hi, Tom. No. Bank of America does not use this system yet, and I hope they don't start. If I wanted recurring payments, I would have signed up for that.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of T. Civitello
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 2:31 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

As I originally started this thread I thought I would try one more question:
My bank switched how they pay your bill. They used to have a list of your
payees, you clicked on the payee you wanted to pay and you were taken to a
dialogue where you entered the amount you wanted to pay. Now the bills
will go directly to your bank and they will send payment to the payee and
you are cut out of the loop till the end of the month when you get a list on
your monthly statement. Are all banks now using this system? Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

This is why it's essential to note all the details on your credit or debit
card when it arrives in the mail.

--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook
versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library
Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

Before the first agent transferred me to the fraud department they first
closed my debit card and ordered me a new one for which I was charged $5,
then they gave me the direct number to the fraud department.

I used it the following day to dispute the charges and to get them removed.

They never offered to give me the email address to report fraud to.

Gene...




On 7/28/2022 4:23 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:

I wonder if you first called the number Chase assigns for reporting fraud.
Also, they have a dedicated email address for reporting fraud, which is
how I would have gone about it. An additional benefit, apart from
convenience, is that the email serves as a record of the timeliness of
your filing, which might be helpful in the event fraudulent charges need
to be removed.

Our local Chase branch has people you can talk to when you have problems.
It's an additional layer of support. One woman there now answers my calls
when I dial her directly.

--
My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook
versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library
Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 1:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

I beg to differ on Chase's phone support, and that is the reason I am
looking for a new bank. I recently had a problem with fraudulent charges
appearing in my account through my debit card. I called the bank to deal
with the problem, first I was told that my wait time would be 30 minutes,
then 30 minutes or so later that person told me that they couldn't help me
and that I needed to talk to their fraud department, then they transferred
me, I was then told that my wait time would be 50 minutes, I waited and
while I was waiting I played some games on my computer, later I checked
the time and realized that I had been waiting for two and a half hours and
was still waiting for someone to answer the phone. That's not what I call
good customer service!

Gene...


On 7/28/2022 12:54 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:

If trust is the issue, opening accounts at two banks only doubles the
anxiety. It happens I do have accounts at both Chase and BofA. I find
Chase's website needlessly complicated but manageable, while BofA's is
simpler. However, BofA's phone customer service is terrible, while
Chase's phone and on-location service is good.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelly
Pierce
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

Why not open accounts at both Chase and Bank of America and then try out
their websites and iPhone apps? After a few months, close the account you
like least.

Kelly



On 7/26/22, Howard Traxler <htraxler7@...> wrote:

I don't seem to trust my (an any other) bank to protect my account.
e issued a paper check to a grand daughter, not of a significant
amount, and she managed to cash it twice; and how many more times
before we caught the problem. As long as the recipient hangs on to
your check, who's to say how many times they can cash it?

Howard


On 7/26/2022 3:05 PM, Larry Thacker Jr. wrote:

Some aps are better than others at this. The Bank of America app
for iOS does a good jog of giving you directions and then
automatically snapping the pic when it’s right. I was surprised to
find that the app for a local bank I’ve been evaluating did this as
well. I am finding a few holes in it, but overall the app and web
site designed by Computer Services Inc. (CSI) seems to work pretty
well. A tell may be that when you go to online banking the web site
address reads yourbankname.mybanking.net. One caveat though, the
security lacks true two-factor authentication. As much as I want
to perf local business over mega corporations that don’t have my
interests at heart, this may ultimately be a deal breaker for me.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 26, 2022 2:10 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: bank on line bill pay

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

You have to take pictures of the front and back of the check.

-
Well, yes, as that's how any mobile banking app gets the data
necessary to deposit the check and to have the legally required
images (when the bank processes the checks normally they're
scanned, and images are saved).

When it comes to things like this, it's always easier to enlist
sighted assistance, once, to get a "photo rig" set up for your
smartphone. I've done this on multiple occasions, and not just for
banking apps, so that the phone can be placed on top of the rig
(which is usually a small cardboard box, cut into what amounts to a
small table with an opening large enough for the smartphone's
camera to be able to take photos of items placed "on the floor"
(table top or desk top in reality) beneath the rig. Once set up
this tends to work like a charm for as long as the rig remains viable.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
* ~ Lauren Bacall

--
It's so convenient when you folks sign your messages with your name
(or even an alias). Then I don't have to close the message and look
through the headings to find the originator.

On 7/29/2022 12:21 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:

Hi,
I Personally will never go back to paper as long as I am able. Such an inconvenient process, though your mileage may vary of course. Normally it also has accessibility barriers in some form or another for those of us who can’t read or fully write print.
Having the ability to simply read a bill directly via phone or computer without the issues of scanning a document, to pay that bill electronically without having to go through the process of writing a check (assistance usually required). I can budget via excel spreadsheets and have everything written down as far as when each bill is due, when it will be automatically withdrawn.
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *T. Civitello
*Sent:* Thursday, July 28, 2022 5:33 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: bank on line bill pay
Under the former system each bill paid said it was paid electronically. Oh well back to writing and mailing checks.  Tom
*From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*Sent:*Thursday, July 28, 2022 3:25 PM
*To:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: bank on line bill pay
On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 06:10 PM, T. Civitello wrote:
Citi bank is now forcing me to the system where the bills go
directly to the bank. My bills come to me by mail and that is the way
I want it to remain.  Tom
-
You're mixing two different issues.
If your bank is insisting on going to all electronic delivery, and you don't want that, then you are going to have to change banks.
What's going on now in the billing world is very analogous to what went on decades ago with regard to direct deposit.  Billers and banks both want to minimize paper and the possibility of bills getting lost, misdirected, or "slipping through the cracks" as they can whether via the mail or once they've arrived at an individual's home.  What's interesting is that most government services, such as water/sewer/trash where I live, cannot be billed electronically, though you can pay them via a bank bill payer but the payment is actually cut by check.
Eventually, paper bills will be a thing of the past.  But you have plenty of other options for banking.  Your bank (whatever it may be) sets its policies and those policies may drive you away as a customer. That's certainly been true for me in the past.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of T. Civitello
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 5:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: bank on line bill pay

 

On 7/28/2022 7:29 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Hot doggies, Citi bank conceded, I was able to
pay my monthly bills quickly. Hope they don’t change their system for next month.  Maybe they got too many complaints.  Tom
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 28, 2022 3:52 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: bank on line bill pay
On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 06:44 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
if they insist, you'll have to take your banking business somewhere
else.
-
Banks have been probably the very worst business sector where the attitude {cue German speaking English accent}, "You vill do vat ve vant, und you vill enjoy it!," reigns.  When my mother was alive, and I had become her Power of Attorney due to advancing dementia, I will never forget when a local credit union forced me to bring her in to sign when opening an account.  The PoA specifically gave me broad powers with regard to financial management, but because the two words, "open account," were not included in the examples of what I could do, I had to have a woman who had no idea what was going on physically present to sign for consent she was not even capable of giving.  It can be absolutely insane!
The only other thing that comes close is cable TV companies and in that case, since many are effectively monopolies in a given area, you're really stuck!  At least you can change banks.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*~ Lauren Bacall

On 7/28/2022 7:10 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 07:04 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
I am very seriously considering cutting the cord on cable TV.
-
And if you can get decent high-speed internet service so you can stream, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
I still have Comcast basic cable (and I do mean basic, and they don't even make new customers aware the option exists) that costs me $40 per month but there's no way I want the next step up, which contains tons of crap I'd never watch, for over $100 per month.
My internet service (all of it) is now handled through the mobile hotspot feature of the two 5G smartphones in the household.  We stream a ton from Amazon Prime Video and Netflix, and occasionally from the various commercial networks if there's something we missed that we want to see.  I have considered cutting the cable cord and with that savings, if I wanted to burn all of it monthly, I could subscribe to between 6 and 8 streaming services, including PBS Passport, and never look back.
Once you start streaming it's amazing how fast it becomes painful to have to deal with commercials.  I don't miss them one bit!
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

On 7/28/2022 6:52 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 06:44 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
if they insist, you'll have to take your banking business somewhere
else.
-
Banks have been probably the very worst business sector where the attitude {cue German speaking English accent}, "You vill do vat ve vant, und you vill enjoy it!," reigns.  When my mother was alive, and I had become her Power of Attorney due to advancing dementia, I will never forget when a local credit union forced me to bring her in to sign when opening an account.  The PoA specifically gave me broad powers with regard to financial management, but because the two words, "open account," were not included in the examples of what I could do, I had to have a woman who had no idea what was going on physically present to sign for consent she was not even capable of giving.  It can be absolutely insane!
The only other thing that comes close is cable TV companies and in that case, since many are effectively monopolies in a given area, you're really stuck!  At least you can change banks.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

On 7/28/2022 6:09 PM, T. Civitello wrote:

Citi bank is now forcing me to the system where the bills go directly to the bank. My bills come to me by mail and that is the way
I want it to remain. Tom
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 28, 2022 2:59 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: bank on line bill pay
On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 05:31 PM, T. Civitello wrote:
Now the bills will go directly to your bank and they will send
payment to the payee and you are cut out of the loop till the end of
the month when you get a list on your monthly statement. Are all
banks now using this system?
-
No, and even those that do (one of mine does) give you the option to use automatic payment (where they just pay whatever comes in) or to follow the usual protocol where they notify you a bill has arrived, and you must log in to pay it.
This is being driven as much by many billers as the banks.  They've found that payments often "slip through the cracks" when customers have to log in to multiple sites to even see their bills then either pay them from there or log out and then log in to their bank to pay them.
It's really quite convenient to centralize all bill paying in one place and to have all of your electronic bills show up in your bank's bill payer.  You still choose whether payment is automatic or you must authorize.  It actually peeves me that one, and only one, of my utility bills refuses to set up such that the bill goes to my bill payer and I get notified that it's there for me to pay. I don't know of a single bank that does "enforced automatic" or they'd lose customers, as people could easily be bouncing the equivalent of checks left and right if making payments is contingent on actual cash flow (and it very often is).  Many don't have tons of cash lying about in their bank accounts that serves as a cushion and where no bill would be larger than that cushion.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*~ Lauren Bacall