Date
1 - 20 of 45
Moderated Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
James Malone <james.malone93502@...>
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Cornelius
For me it could be attributed to a few reasons, namely the OCR for PDFs, the easier marking of places in documents with Control+Win+K, and I simply just love the ability to work on various MS office programs with JAWS. The downside with JAWS, which I wish could be more customisable, would be related to installing various components. For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc, I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file.
One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Edward Green
Hi James,
I find JAWS’s Office support better than NVDA’s, and also find it more responsive in Office applications.
Some of its productivity features are also really good like text analyzer.
This could be just my impression, but I also find the NVDA add-on process a bit messy, EG. a lot of add-ons always seem to break when NVDA is updated and it takes a while for them to get fixed. While I’m sure that does happen to external scripts and JAWS, it doesn’t feel as though it happens nearly as often.
Cheers,
Ed
On 11 June 2022 09:03:58 "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...> wrote:
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Gerald Levy
For me, the biggest
advantage of JAWS over NVDA is that the former offers Eloquence
voices by default, while the latter offers an incomprehensible
Australian voice by default. Eloquence is only available in
NVDA as a paid download, and even then, there have been reports
that it does not work especially well. And I am not especially
fond of the additional free Microsoft Speech Platform voices
which can be used with NVDA, none of which matches the clairty
and comprehensibility of Eloquence to my ears. So I use NVDA
mostly as a backup in case JAWS stops speaking.
Gerald
On 6/11/2022 4:03 AM, James Malone
wrote:
Hi all, inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering: What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive! Looking forward to hearing from you, James
John Covici
In addition to what has been said, I use Leasey which consists of lots
of Jaws scripts which make the computing environment much easier. I
don't use all the features of Leasey, but it sure is nice, its zoom
scripts are great (an extra cost add-on), and its full of other nice
utilities.
Also, there are Jaws scripts which makes quickbooks for desktop
accessible which nvda does not have.
On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 06:31:03 -0400,
Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?
John Covici wb2una
covici@...
of Jaws scripts which make the computing environment much easier. I
don't use all the features of Leasey, but it sure is nice, its zoom
scripts are great (an extra cost add-on), and its full of other nice
utilities.
Also, there are Jaws scripts which makes quickbooks for desktop
accessible which nvda does not have.
On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 06:31:03 -0400,
Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:
--
[1 <text/plain; UTF-8 (base64)>]
For me, the biggest advantage of JAWS over NVDA is that the
former offers Eloquence voices by default, while the latter
offers an incomprehensible Australian voice by default.
Eloquence is only available in NVDA as a paid download, and even
then, there have been reports that it does not work especially
well. And I am not especially fond of the additional free
Microsoft Speech Platform voices which can be used with NVDA,
none of which matches the clairty and comprehensibility of
Eloquence to my ears. So I use NVDA mostly as a backup in case
JAWS stops speaking.
Gerald
On 6/11/2022 4:03 AM, James Malone wrote:Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
[2 <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?
John Covici wb2una
covici@...
David Diamond
For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc., I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file. I have always chose "typical" installation over "custom" Thus I thought choosing "custom" you'd be able to pick and choose which programs you could install and ignore others.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cornelius
Sent: June 11, 2022 1:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
For me it could be attributed to a few reasons, namely the OCR for PDFs, the easier marking of places in documents with Control+Win+K, and I simply just love the ability to work on various MS office programs with JAWS. The downside with JAWS, which I wish could be more customisable, would be related to installing various components. For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc, I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file.
One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cornelius
Sent: June 11, 2022 1:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
For me it could be attributed to a few reasons, namely the OCR for PDFs, the easier marking of places in documents with Control+Win+K, and I simply just love the ability to work on various MS office programs with JAWS. The downside with JAWS, which I wish could be more customisable, would be related to installing various components. For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc, I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file.
One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Mike Pietruk
James
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s,
I chose Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's
user key system (I just didn't understand it, nothing more,
and GWMicro just seemed to allow straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted
the offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and
people like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages,
especially Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader,
I am more comfortable with something that is backed by a company rather
than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain
need of mine,
I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final
release meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like
chasing the proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close
to catching; but then the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been
able to keep up
as given the constant changes they face.
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s,
I chose Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's
user key system (I just didn't understand it, nothing more,
and GWMicro just seemed to allow straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted
the offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and
people like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages,
especially Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader,
I am more comfortable with something that is backed by a company rather
than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain
need of mine,
I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final
release meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like
chasing the proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close
to catching; but then the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been
able to keep up
as given the constant changes they face.
Cornelius
There is no more custom install in JAWS. To remove some features, you have to use the additional settings.ini files, which you can find the instruction from FS webpage. And not to mention, only a few features can be remove.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 8:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc., I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file. I have always chose "typical" installation over "custom" Thus I thought choosing "custom" you'd be able to pick and choose which programs you could install and ignore others.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cornelius
Sent: June 11, 2022 1:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
For me it could be attributed to a few reasons, namely the OCR for PDFs, the easier marking of places in documents with Control+Win+K, and I simply just love the ability to work on various MS office programs with JAWS. The downside with JAWS, which I wish could be more customisable, would be related to installing various components. For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc, I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file.
One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 8:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc., I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file. I have always chose "typical" installation over "custom" Thus I thought choosing "custom" you'd be able to pick and choose which programs you could install and ignore others.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cornelius
Sent: June 11, 2022 1:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
For me it could be attributed to a few reasons, namely the OCR for PDFs, the easier marking of places in documents with Control+Win+K, and I simply just love the ability to work on various MS office programs with JAWS. The downside with JAWS, which I wish could be more customisable, would be related to installing various components. For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc, I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file.
One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Kestrel Verlager <kestrell@...>
I lost the last of my functional vision in the mid-1990s and, when I went to
an indie computer support team to put a computer with speech together, I
chose Jaws and the DecTalk soundcard (these were about the size of today's
laptops, btw). There weren't that many options at the time, and Jaws and
DecTalk were possibly the most well-known combination. (Anyone remember Huge
Harry and Whispering Wendy?)
Over the years, I tried a number of the open source projects that promised
alternatives to Jaws, but the ease of installation, range of functionality,
and sound quality were never there, and all of them expected the user to
have some serious programming chops.
I think NVDA only became comfortably accessible to the non-programming
general user relatively recently, and a lot of users still aren't
comfortable with the default speech synthesizers. The sound of a program is
to a visually impaired person what the visual aesthetic is to a sighted
person: it conveys a sense of how professional and how fully developed the
product is. I think this is where NVDA has failed to impress a lot of users.
So I have nearly thirty years experience with Jaws, and I'm faster and more
expert on it. I also find that there is a lot more learning resources for
it. NVDA users seem to have a lot more of the open source "if you really
want to learn it, you'll figure it out yourself" mentality. I paid for one
of their training ebooks, but it would be nice if there was a regular
training webinar or podcast available. I'm not talking about learning the
basics, but keeping up with the constant new developments in the
applications we use for work and for accomplishing everyday tasks. FS has
lots of webinars on using Jaws with Google Workspace and OCR, and I don't
see NVDA offering anything like that, and those are things that keep our job
skills competitive.
Kestrell
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
an indie computer support team to put a computer with speech together, I
chose Jaws and the DecTalk soundcard (these were about the size of today's
laptops, btw). There weren't that many options at the time, and Jaws and
DecTalk were possibly the most well-known combination. (Anyone remember Huge
Harry and Whispering Wendy?)
Over the years, I tried a number of the open source projects that promised
alternatives to Jaws, but the ease of installation, range of functionality,
and sound quality were never there, and all of them expected the user to
have some serious programming chops.
I think NVDA only became comfortably accessible to the non-programming
general user relatively recently, and a lot of users still aren't
comfortable with the default speech synthesizers. The sound of a program is
to a visually impaired person what the visual aesthetic is to a sighted
person: it conveys a sense of how professional and how fully developed the
product is. I think this is where NVDA has failed to impress a lot of users.
So I have nearly thirty years experience with Jaws, and I'm faster and more
expert on it. I also find that there is a lot more learning resources for
it. NVDA users seem to have a lot more of the open source "if you really
want to learn it, you'll figure it out yourself" mentality. I paid for one
of their training ebooks, but it would be nice if there was a regular
training webinar or podcast available. I'm not talking about learning the
basics, but keeping up with the constant new developments in the
applications we use for work and for accomplishing everyday tasks. FS has
lots of webinars on using Jaws with Google Workspace and OCR, and I don't
see NVDA offering anything like that, and those are things that keep our job
skills competitive.
Kestrell
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
James
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s, I chose
Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's user key system (I just
didn't understand it, nothing more, and GWMicro just seemed to allow
straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted the
offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and people
like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages, especially
Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader, I am more comfortable with
something that is backed by a company rather than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain need
of mine, I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final release
meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like chasing the
proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close to catching; but then
the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been able
to keep up as given the constant changes they face.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
James
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s, I chose
Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's user key system (I just
didn't understand it, nothing more, and GWMicro just seemed to allow
straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted the
offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and people
like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages, especially
Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader, I am more comfortable with
something that is backed by a company rather than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain need
of mine, I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final release
meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like chasing the
proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close to catching; but then
the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been able
to keep up as given the constant changes they face.
Karen Reynolds
Hi Kestrell,
Wow, you brought back memories. What is amazing to me is that just in the
last couple of years the Noah radios just switched from those boards and
voices to digital.
Karen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wow, you brought back memories. What is amazing to me is that just in the
last couple of years the Noah radios just switched from those boards and
voices to digital.
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kestrel Verlager
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
I lost the last of my functional vision in the mid-1990s and, when I went to
an indie computer support team to put a computer with speech together, I
chose Jaws and the DecTalk soundcard (these were about the size of today's
laptops, btw). There weren't that many options at the time, and Jaws and
DecTalk were possibly the most well-known combination. (Anyone remember Huge
Harry and Whispering Wendy?)
Over the years, I tried a number of the open source projects that promised
alternatives to Jaws, but the ease of installation, range of functionality,
and sound quality were never there, and all of them expected the user to
have some serious programming chops.
I think NVDA only became comfortably accessible to the non-programming
general user relatively recently, and a lot of users still aren't
comfortable with the default speech synthesizers. The sound of a program is
to a visually impaired person what the visual aesthetic is to a sighted
person: it conveys a sense of how professional and how fully developed the
product is. I think this is where NVDA has failed to impress a lot of users.
So I have nearly thirty years experience with Jaws, and I'm faster and more
expert on it. I also find that there is a lot more learning resources for
it. NVDA users seem to have a lot more of the open source "if you really
want to learn it, you'll figure it out yourself" mentality. I paid for one
of their training ebooks, but it would be nice if there was a regular
training webinar or podcast available. I'm not talking about learning the
basics, but keeping up with the constant new developments in the
applications we use for work and for accomplishing everyday tasks. FS has
lots of webinars on using Jaws with Google Workspace and OCR, and I don't
see NVDA offering anything like that, and those are things that keep our job
skills competitive.
Kestrell
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
James
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s, I chose
Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's user key system (I just
didn't understand it, nothing more, and GWMicro just seemed to allow
straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted the
offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and people
like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages, especially
Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader, I am more comfortable with
something that is backed by a company rather than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain need
of mine, I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final release
meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like chasing the
proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close to catching; but then
the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been able
to keep up as given the constant changes they face.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kestrel Verlager
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
I lost the last of my functional vision in the mid-1990s and, when I went to
an indie computer support team to put a computer with speech together, I
chose Jaws and the DecTalk soundcard (these were about the size of today's
laptops, btw). There weren't that many options at the time, and Jaws and
DecTalk were possibly the most well-known combination. (Anyone remember Huge
Harry and Whispering Wendy?)
Over the years, I tried a number of the open source projects that promised
alternatives to Jaws, but the ease of installation, range of functionality,
and sound quality were never there, and all of them expected the user to
have some serious programming chops.
I think NVDA only became comfortably accessible to the non-programming
general user relatively recently, and a lot of users still aren't
comfortable with the default speech synthesizers. The sound of a program is
to a visually impaired person what the visual aesthetic is to a sighted
person: it conveys a sense of how professional and how fully developed the
product is. I think this is where NVDA has failed to impress a lot of users.
So I have nearly thirty years experience with Jaws, and I'm faster and more
expert on it. I also find that there is a lot more learning resources for
it. NVDA users seem to have a lot more of the open source "if you really
want to learn it, you'll figure it out yourself" mentality. I paid for one
of their training ebooks, but it would be nice if there was a regular
training webinar or podcast available. I'm not talking about learning the
basics, but keeping up with the constant new developments in the
applications we use for work and for accomplishing everyday tasks. FS has
lots of webinars on using Jaws with Google Workspace and OCR, and I don't
see NVDA offering anything like that, and those are things that keep our job
skills competitive.
Kestrell
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
James
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s, I chose
Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's user key system (I just
didn't understand it, nothing more, and GWMicro just seemed to allow
straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted the
offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and people
like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages, especially
Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader, I am more comfortable with
something that is backed by a company rather than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain need
of mine, I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final release
meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like chasing the
proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close to catching; but then
the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been able
to keep up as given the constant changes they face.
Loy
Same here, I was a dedicated user of Window Eyes and I excepted the free JAWS after FS dropped WE. I am and older user and don't wish to learn another screen reader now. I do keep a copy of NVDA just in case JAWS fails me, but so far JAWS is the one for me.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
James
JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.
When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s,
I chose Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's
user key system (I just didn't understand it, nothing more,
and GWMicro just seemed to allow straight installation).
I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted
the offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.
It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and
people like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages,
especially Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.
I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader,
I am more comfortable with something that is backed by a company rather
than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.
Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain
need of mine,
I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final
release meet my everyday needs as a retired person.
I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like
chasing the proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close
to catching; but then the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.
I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been
able to keep up
as given the constant changes they face.
K0LNY
Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen
review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection
and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in
windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program
in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca,
but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in
windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them
up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download
from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the
cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I
use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws
cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that
pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port,
maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse
click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to
"don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all
the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of
control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to
get through Chirp.
Glenn
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen
review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection
and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in
windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program
in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca,
but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in
windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them
up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download
from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the
cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I
use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws
cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that
pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port,
maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse
click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to
"don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all
the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of
control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to
get through Chirp.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Curtis Chong
Greetings:
I will say that if a person needs help from the fine folks at NV Access, even if you purchase an hour of technical support time, it is just about impossible to get a human to contact you. With Freedom Scientific, we still get free over-the-phone technical support which, I admit, is not perfect. It is, however, better than not having any phone support at all.
Lately, Freedom Scientific has been putting on quite a few training webinars and charging nothing for them. They also run quite a few free sessions on Clubhouse.
My two big reasons for favoring JAWS over NVDA is the JAWS Text Analyzer, the place marker feature in Word (which NVDA also has now), and the built-in optical character recognition—of files and through a scanner.
Cordially,
Curtis Chong
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I will say that if a person needs help from the fine folks at NV Access, even if you purchase an hour of technical support time, it is just about impossible to get a human to contact you. With Freedom Scientific, we still get free over-the-phone technical support which, I admit, is not perfect. It is, however, better than not having any phone support at all.
Lately, Freedom Scientific has been putting on quite a few training webinars and charging nothing for them. They also run quite a few free sessions on Clubhouse.
My two big reasons for favoring JAWS over NVDA is the JAWS Text Analyzer, the place marker feature in Word (which NVDA also has now), and the built-in optical character recognition—of files and through a scanner.
Cordially,
Curtis Chong
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 2:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 2:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Madison Martin
Hi James,
I know that you've received lots of responses but I wanted to chime in anyway. When I first started learning to use a computer I was taught how to use Jaws; I tried NVDA but never really liked it and I'm not sure it works as well with braille displays... I think it just comes down to what meets your needs best and what you feel more comfortable with. I also just use my computer for basic things so I'm not interested in all of the add-ons that NVDA has and I like the fact that FS has tech support, even though these lists are grate they can't fix everything.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I know that you've received lots of responses but I wanted to chime in anyway. When I first started learning to use a computer I was taught how to use Jaws; I tried NVDA but never really liked it and I'm not sure it works as well with braille displays... I think it just comes down to what meets your needs best and what you feel more comfortable with. I also just use my computer for basic things so I'm not interested in all of the add-ons that NVDA has and I like the fact that FS has tech support, even though these lists are grate they can't fix everything.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: June 11, 2022 10:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca, but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port, maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to "don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to get through Chirp.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: June 11, 2022 10:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca, but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port, maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to "don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to get through Chirp.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Soronel Haetir
I use jaws mostly because NVDA wasn't available when I went blind (so
out of inertia) and when I did try NVDA (last time was 2010 or so) I
got _extremely_ upset with the NVDA development team and their
prevailing attitude toward introductory developer support (that is,
their attitude was that such support isn't needed).
As far as development systems went I actually preferred WindowEyes,
what with everything being based around COM objects and using
ActiveScript (but that was the only thing I liked about WE).
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
out of inertia) and when I did try NVDA (last time was 2010 or so) I
got _extremely_ upset with the NVDA development team and their
prevailing attitude toward introductory developer support (that is,
their attitude was that such support isn't needed).
As far as development systems went I actually preferred WindowEyes,
what with everything being based around COM objects and using
ActiveScript (but that was the only thing I liked about WE).
On 6/11/22, Madison Martin <Madison.Martin2000@...> wrote:
Hi James,
I know that you've received lots of responses but I wanted to chime in
anyway. When I first started learning to use a computer I was taught how to
use Jaws; I tried NVDA but never really liked it and I'm not sure it works
as well with braille displays... I think it just comes down to what meets
your needs best and what you feel more comfortable with. I also just use my
computer for basic things so I'm not interested in all of the add-ons that
NVDA has and I like the fact that FS has tech support, even though these
lists are grate they can't fix everything.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: June 11, 2022 10:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen
review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection
and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in
windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program
in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca,
but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in
windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them
up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download
from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the
cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I
use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws
cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that
pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port,
maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse
click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to
"don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all
the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of
control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to
get through Chirp.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd
really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it
does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time
NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year
or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better
braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super
happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I
used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers.
Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't
really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came
to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to
my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that
can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...
Gene Warner
Hi everyone!
I just recently heard about this list, so this is my first post.
I started losing my vision in 2010 and was declared legally blind two year later. I bought JAWS in December in 2013 and have been using it ever since except for a a week or two when I tried switching to NVDA, but always came back to JAWS.
My take on the two screen readers is quite simple.
* If you want to be productive and get work done with your computer, you use JAWS.
* If you like forgoing productivity and like to dig into the inner workings and tinkering around to see what happens, you use NVDA.
Have a great week end everyone!
Gene...
I just recently heard about this list, so this is my first post.
I started losing my vision in 2010 and was declared legally blind two year later. I bought JAWS in December in 2013 and have been using it ever since except for a a week or two when I tried switching to NVDA, but always came back to JAWS.
My take on the two screen readers is quite simple.
* If you want to be productive and get work done with your computer, you use JAWS.
* If you like forgoing productivity and like to dig into the inner workings and tinkering around to see what happens, you use NVDA.
Have a great week end everyone!
Gene...
Tyler Wood
Hi,
I grew up with Jaws from pre Jaws 4.0 days. Prier to that it was a little known piece of software called window bridge. I miss it.
That being said, I don’t use one over the other. I use both Jaws and NVDA as needed and recommend that folks get comfortable with all three options if they can (Jaws, NVDA and Narrator). I find that NVDA performs some tasks far more efficiently than jaws. This is especially the case when I need to route my mouse to something – I find it incredibly difficult to know where it will land on with Jaws if the Jaws cursor doesn’t function as expected. In Windows 10 and above, this seems to be the case more often than not – especially in applications downloaded from the Microsoft store. NVDA’s object nav is a godsend here and is far less sluggish than the Jaws touch cursor. Spotify is another prime example as are a variety of web browsers, like Edge, firefox and Chrome though routing the Jaws to PC cursor usually is sufficient to be able to perform a single left click. Jaws is far more efficient and productive for me on the windows explorer (browsing files, moving, copying and deleting) and Microsoft office front in terms of speed and snappyness. My experience with NVDA on a lower end machine especially when it comes to file browsing can be incredibly frustrating as a posed to Jaws, which is quick and responsive, regardless of processor. Though when it comes to web browsing, Certainly on the web browsing front I highly recommend folks get familiar with all of the main web browsers and how they operate with both Jaws and NVDA. I have several websites which will work far nicer with one over the other and the more tools at your disposal, the better. Both screen readers tend to work very well when web browsing but certain websites may pose a problem to a specific combination.
I personally don’t think NVDA should in any way be classified as a screen reader that requires tweaking. Sure, it can be done, but it is in no way required and I’d actually argue that the more basic settings are far easier to locate and understand than Jaws. You install it, run it, and just like Jaws and its scripts, Vocalizer voices and the like, you install the add ons you want (which install insanely fast and don’t require changing or adding any files manually) and restart NVDA. I can safely say that in the 6 years I’ve been using NVDA semi regularly, I’ve encountered far less issues than Jaws and its countless drivers and running processes (on a high end computer, it still takes well over 5 minutes for Jaws to install in 2022 – what exactly does it require that takes 10 plus minutes, in some instances 20)? Video intercept pre Windows 10 days, activation issues, and more. Most of these issues have since been ironed out, but it took a very long time, far longer than it should given the price point.
I’ll just repeat myself here – I use the tools that work for the current activity and very highly recommend familiarizing one self with alternative screen readers. I promise it’s not as daunting as it sounds – converting the Jaws cursor to NVDA’s screen reader and the touch cursor to NVDA’s object navigation, for example, will go a long way towards making you more comfortable with switching. And despite what people may think, free does not mean leaving you to flounder in the water and guess commands. There are plenty of resources available in NVDA’s help section to familiarize you with them, and more, as well as online resources available. This is especially true for those who haven’t tried NVDA in the last 4-10 years. A lot has changed and it is no longer like stepping off a cliff – this is from someone who has used Jaws for well over 20. I hope this message will influence those who are less familiar to try and become moreso. Change comes slow on the assistive technology front. We’d best be familiar with as many resources as we have at our disposal. One day it will save us a lot of headache.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks
Dan Longmore
Hi,
Have little experience with NVDA. However I find Narrator to be more stable and reliable than JAWS. JAWS offers more functionality and works with more apps yet lacks the stability of Narrator. As has been said good to be comfortable with more than one source for accessibility.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Have little experience with NVDA. However I find Narrator to be more stable and reliable than JAWS. JAWS offers more functionality and works with more apps yet lacks the stability of Narrator. As has been said good to be comfortable with more than one source for accessibility.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 4:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 4:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
Tyler Wood
Oh, something else I forgot to mention - Jaws definitely does have more braille support out of the box. Unsurprising as they've been at this for 20 plus years, too - remember the power braille 40? I miss that display.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io; jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi,
Have little experience with NVDA. However I find Narrator to be more stable and reliable than JAWS. JAWS offers more functionality and works with more apps yet lacks the stability of Narrator. As has been said good to be comfortable with more than one source for accessibility.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 4:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io; jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi,
Have little experience with NVDA. However I find Narrator to be more stable and reliable than JAWS. JAWS offers more functionality and works with more apps yet lacks the stability of Narrator. As has been said good to be comfortable with more than one source for accessibility.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 4:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
molly the blind tech lover
Hi. This is such an interesting topic. I rather enjoy discussions like
this. I prefer Jaws over NVDA because Jaws has the Braille math
editor, which I need to use for math class. NVDA is a great screen
reader if you don't need to do math. Also, I love Jaws picture smart,
voice assistant feature, and the convenient OCR. I do use NVDA
occasionally, and I like how there are so many unique NVDA add-ons.
However, my overall preference is Jaws.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
this. I prefer Jaws over NVDA because Jaws has the Braille math
editor, which I need to use for math class. NVDA is a great screen
reader if you don't need to do math. Also, I love Jaws picture smart,
voice assistant feature, and the convenient OCR. I do use NVDA
occasionally, and I like how there are so many unique NVDA add-ons.
However, my overall preference is Jaws.
On 6/11/22, James Malone <james.malone93502@...> wrote:
Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James