moderated email clients


Judy
 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


Dan Longmore
 

Really depends on what you like, special features you like .  Both are reliable .

Also Mail app , built into Windows 10, also works.

I use Thunderbird in an emergency but personally like the response and access of Outlook.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021        4:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email clients

 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


Richard Turner
 

If you are used to Outlook, I’d stick with Outlook.

Go with Microsoft 365 if you use more than just outlook.

This will give you Word, Excel, and lots more.

Be sure, if you have a previous office installation that you remove it before installing the new one.

Someone with more technical knowledge could help you make sure your contacts and all stay with you in the new office.

Microsoft accessibility is very helpful with this.

 

 

 

Richard

 

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.

 

 

My web site, www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 1:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email clients

 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


 

I'll be the contrarian and throw out there that if all you're looking for is e-mail, and you are already using a Gmail account (as but one example), the webmail interfaces are accessible.  There are a number of members here who've mentioned that this is what they use.

Most of the major webmail interfaces allow you to add additional accounts that are not "their brand," too.

Webmail interfaces seldom undergo radical makeovers, and the small changes that do occur over time are generally easy to adjust to.

Thunderbird is an excellent email client.  The last several versions of eM Client have been getting more and more accessible, and they take feedback from screen reader users seriously.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Dan Longmore
 

G-Mail web mail is good but many web mail screens are not access technology friendly.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 5:00 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

I'll be the contrarian and throw out there that if all you're looking for is e-mail, and you are already using a Gmail account (as but one example), the webmail interfaces are accessible.  There are a number of members here who've mentioned that this is what they use.

Most of the major webmail interfaces allow you to add additional accounts that are not "their brand," too.

Webmail interfaces seldom undergo radical makeovers, and the small changes that do occur over time are generally easy to adjust to.

Thunderbird is an excellent email client.  The last several versions of eM Client have been getting more and more accessible, and they take feedback from screen reader users seriously.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Richard Turner
 

I do not see your statements as contrarian Brian. Those are good alternatives, so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.
I know people who are still using Eudora.
Just for my own knowledge I will install Thunderbird to see the differences.
I have not tried it in at least 4 years, probably more.



Richard 
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

www.turner42.com


On Apr 5, 2021, at 1:59 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I'll be the contrarian and throw out there that if all you're looking for is e-mail, and you are already using a Gmail account (as but one example), the webmail interfaces are accessible.  There are a number of members here who've mentioned that this is what they use.

Most of the major webmail interfaces allow you to add additional accounts that are not "their brand," too.

Webmail interfaces seldom undergo radical makeovers, and the small changes that do occur over time are generally easy to adjust to.

Thunderbird is an excellent email client.  The last several versions of eM Client have been getting more and more accessible, and they take feedback from screen reader users seriously.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Pastor Gilbert Pries <gilp@...>
 

I am using Office 365 personal.

 

I would get that.

 

Pastor Gilbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 1:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email clients

 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.
-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Richard Turner
 

Well, if people who are blind are choosing to use a method that requires two to three times as many keystrokes to do the same task, that is certainly their right and I say more power to them.
I just logged into gmail on the web.
Yes, it is far better than it was a few years ago.
But, using a gmail account with Outlook, means when I arrow down my inbox, I hear who it is from, the subject and the date.
That was one keypress.
If I go to the gmail web page, It takes three keystrokes to get from one subject (without knowing the sender) to get to the next message subject. The extra keystrokes are going passed the select check mark and the Star check mark.
So, this is really user preference and I want to be really clear, I am not making any value judgement that one way is better than another.
I like the way I do it is all.



Richard 
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

www.turner42.com


On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.
-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

I think web mail is still not as good as applications myself. And I haven't seen any post from blind people saying they prefer web mail. But that's just me. Are used Thunderbird. Outlook if you like it is good.

Randy Barnett

On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:30 PM, Richard Turner <richardturner42@...> wrote:


Well, if people who are blind are choosing to use a method that requires two to three times as many keystrokes to do the same task, that is certainly their right and I say more power to them.
I just logged into gmail on the web.
Yes, it is far better than it was a few years ago.
But, using a gmail account with Outlook, means when I arrow down my inbox, I hear who it is from, the subject and the date.
That was one keypress.
If I go to the gmail web page, It takes three keystrokes to get from one subject (without knowing the sender) to get to the next message subject. The extra keystrokes are going passed the select check mark and the Star check mark.
So, this is really user preference and I want to be really clear, I am not making any value judgement that one way is better than another.
I like the way I do it is all.



Richard 
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

www.turner42.com


On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.
-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

Judy,

 

What do you mean that Outlook 2010 is not supported anymore? Do you have any website references to this such as where it's not supported?

 

Thanks.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 3:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email clients

 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


Richard Turner
 

Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd



Richard 
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

www.turner42.com


On Apr 5, 2021, at 7:31 PM, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:



Judy,

 

What do you mean that Outlook 2010 is not supported anymore? Do you have any website references to this such as where it's not supported?

 

Thanks.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 3:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email clients

 

Hi, I've been using outlook 2010 and it's not supported anymore so I need to change. What clients do you all use that are relatively easy to navigate and use? I know I can buy micro office 365 or thunderbird which is free. What's your opinions. Thanks in advance. Judy & Libby    


 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd
-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Richard Turner
 

Thanks Brian.
Jaws, of course, didn't jump to that and I didn't examine the page in great detail but I thought I had gone through it by headings, but apparently too quickly.



Richard 
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

www.turner42.com


On Apr 5, 2021, at 7:52 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd
-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

You do realize "in a big, bold box" means nothing to blind people right?  To us it is just one line like the rest of the page and could be missed. So pointing this out the way you did is just not cool...

On 4/5/2021 7:52 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd
-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


Richard Turner
 

Hi again,

After going back to the page with Jaws and Edge, I finally found that heading, once, but it was skipped the first time.

When I went back again, it was not there unless I expanded one of their support options.

 

I can only say, that Microsoft could easily make that information more apparent for a blind user by not just having it in one line in a heading level 3.

It should have been in a heading level 1 and perhaps repeated later on the page since using their own products, it was easily missed.

 

I’m glad I have Microsoft 365.

 

 

Richard

 

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.

 

 

My web site, www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 8:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

You do realize "in a big, bold box" means nothing to blind people right?  To us it is just one line like the rest of the page and could be missed. So pointing this out the way you did is just not cool...

On 4/5/2021 7:52 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd

-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

Well, as long as I can still send and receive emails with Outlook 2010 and the other programs in Office 2010 Pro continue to work, I really don't care whether Microsoft supports them or not. I've been using 2010 for several years now and don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 9:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Well, It would appear that Micprosoft is still supporting it at least on this site:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd

-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:
don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.
-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:27 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
You do realize "in a big, bold box" means nothing to blind people right?
-
Sorry, Mr. Barnett, but how it's presented generally carries some formatting weight that screen readers also pick up on.

It's the first freaking thing on the page.  If MS malformed it, that is unfortunate, but I'm not about to dig into page HTML to determine that.  When there is a big, bold notice at the outset of a page I would presume, and generally am right, that screen reader users will hear that right up front just the way I see it right up front.

So, if "that's not cool" to you that's perfectly OK with me.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


James Bentley
 

I’m blind too.  And, I hate all of the extra key strokes to get any thing done at Gmail and AT&T both.

 

I suppose that sighted persons do not need the extra steps.

 

James B 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 7:19 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

I think web mail is still not as good as applications myself. And I haven't seen any post from blind people saying they prefer web mail. But that's just me. Are used Thunderbird. Outlook if you like it is good.

Randy Barnett


On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:30 PM, Richard Turner <richardturner42@...> wrote:



Well, if people who are blind are choosing to use a method that requires two to three times as many keystrokes to do the same task, that is certainly their right and I say more power to them.

I just logged into gmail on the web.

Yes, it is far better than it was a few years ago.

But, using a gmail account with Outlook, means when I arrow down my inbox, I hear who it is from, the subject and the date.

That was one keypress.

If I go to the gmail web page, It takes three keystrokes to get from one subject (without knowing the sender) to get to the next message subject. The extra keystrokes are going passed the select check mark and the Star check mark.

So, this is really user preference and I want to be really clear, I am not making any value judgement that one way is better than another.

I like the way I do it is all.

 

 

 

Richard 

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

 

 



On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.

-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel