Moderated Crosspost: Question about new member
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Jasmine Kotsay
Hi, I know a teacher who would like to learn more about JAWS. I thought it might be good for her to come onto a listserv or two so she can ask questions and learn from us. Is that possible? She can see, but she is a VI teacher.
Sincerely, Jasmine |
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Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.
I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide |
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David Diamond
I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point? So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I could see it I would not be calling your department.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide |
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Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so
they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without
doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like
for us. On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
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K0LNY
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I would make a different point about wearing
blindfolds.
In any situation, but especially the Blind service
industry, the blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are
or should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of
sight.
If a sighted person is going to be teaching
Blindness skills, then that person needs to have confidence in the skills being
taught.
Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list
oriented to those who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the
guy or gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far
as rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be
no way to police it.
And really, who cares who joins any list, as long
as they aren't a problem lister.
Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: Randy
Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can
empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't
able to really understand what it is like for us. On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
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Laura Shumate
I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access
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Technology is a cool thing. I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said after a day he wanted no more to do with it. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. --
Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 |
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David Diamond
Here is a twist, A group of O & M instructors were at a seminare with some of their students. The power went out and they panicked. They went so far as to put candles on the rug so they could be guided by the candle light. One of their students offered to guide them, they declined. Point? This is already been touched on, it is one thing to teach a skill but when, as they say the rubber hits the road, does the teacher practice what they teach or does fear set in? I think it is excellent that a teacher of VIPs wants to join a list like this because it gives him or her insight into our world.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: January 27, 2021 6:57 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of sight. If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught. Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be no way to police it. And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a problem lister. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Barnett Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
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David Diamond
A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home. After seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information, it was over whelming to her.
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-----Original Message----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura Shumate Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access Technology is a cool thing. I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said after a day he wanted no more to do with it. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote: > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of sight. > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught. > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or > gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be no way to police it. > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a > problem lister. > Glenn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Randy Barnett > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. > > > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote: > > > I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after > Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point? > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they > are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I > could see it I would not be calling your department. > > > > From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel > Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > > Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem. > > I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same. > -- > > Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 > > One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of > the shore for a very long time. > > ~ André Gide > > > > > > > -- Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 |
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David Diamond
The school that requires all students to wear a blind fold does this so everyone is on a level playing field. True instructors can do wear a blind fold, but they can take it off at the end of the day. Apparently at one school, a trainer took the blind fold off right away because she panicked. Must be nice to get your sight back and have that ability. Grin.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: January 27, 2021 6:40 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
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Laura Shumate
Hi David,
I told my X husband one day to close his eyes for 1 hour he didn't even last 30 minutes. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/28/21, David Diamond <Daviddiamond2019@...> wrote: A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the -- |
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On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:40 AM, David Diamond wrote:
This is already been touched on, it is one thing to teach a skill but when, as they say the rubber hits the road, does the teacher practice what they teach or does fear set in?- Fear sets in, which is entirely natural, as anyone I've ever known who was sighted and lost it will tell you. I really don't get how there is not an understanding that sighted O&M teachers can know how to teach skills that they, themselves, are not using moment to moment, because they don't need to. And when you don't need to do something, constantly, to negotiate your world it doesn't "come naturally" in exception circumstances. We all operate with the sensory palette that we actually possess, no matter how we came to possess it, and if one of those is suddenly removed due to a temporary circumstance it tends to naturally make one uneasy, regardless of what one may know about compensatory strategies for that loss, even with in-depth knowledge in the abstract. Think about how it would be for you to suddenly have no hearing by artificial means and have to operate in that way for a couple of hours. It's not a realistic facsimile of how someone who's deaf actually operates in daily life if they've been deaf for any period of time. Instant deprivation of a sense puts anyone who's experiencing it way off-kilter, and I'm certain a lot of people here know that all too well. But that's not representative of what it is to live with it long term, as you adjust and become more skilled. That's why I don't see why the "let's blindfold 'em" schemes are believed to be helpful or representative of anything other than "the panicked stage of being quickly deprived of a sense you normally depend on." And I've seen very few panicked people be particularly good at anything. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide |
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David Diamond
For the trainer to wear a blind fold it shows whether the dog is indeed guiding them properly or they are in a sense directing the dog. Some students have washed out at a guide dog school because they see an object such as a lamp post and to the sighted or ones who have residual vision it looks like the dog will run them right into it. One student was constantly overriding the dog’s directions because he, the student saw the object and decided that the dog was not going to guide him around it. I never forgot the incident where the person driving me to pick up supplies saw my guide dog and I headed for a cement garbage can at quite a speed, he said,, “I was too far away to yell out anything then your dog just took you around it. I almost had a heart attack watching the entire thing unfold.” Getting back to screen readers, I do have some residual vision and can see things on the display it is just after about 30 seconds of reading something my eyes get tired, thus just use JAWS instead.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: January 28, 2021 7:18 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:40 AM, David Diamond wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide |
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David Diamond
Some don't even last that long, maybe 5 minutes if that. Grin. The trainer I mentioned it was said took the blind fold off after 30 seconds even though she was supposed to keep it on. s
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-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura Shumate Sent: January 27, 2021 10:47 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member Hi David, I told my X husband one day to close his eyes for 1 hour he didn't even last 30 minutes. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/28/21, David Diamond <Daviddiamond2019@...> wrote: > A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day > at the end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive > home. After seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with > visual information, it was over whelming to her. > > -----Original Message---- > From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura > Shumate > Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access > Technology is a cool thing. > I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he > said after a day he wanted no more to do with it. > Laura Shumate > snowflake122188@... > Business Phone: 254-300-7667 > Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 > > > > On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote: > > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. > > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the > > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or > > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of > sight. > > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then > > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught. > > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those > > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or > > gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as > > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there > would > be no way to police it. > > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a > > problem lister. > > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Randy Barnett > > To: main@jfw.groups.io > > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM > > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > > > > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they > > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing > > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. > > > > > > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote: > > > > > > I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the > > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after > > Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point? > > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How > > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they > > are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft > > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I > > could see it I would not be calling your department. > > > > > > > > From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel > > Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM > > To: main@jfw.groups.io > > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > > > > > > Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I > > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem. > > > > I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in > > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same. > > -- > > > > Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 > > > > One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of > > the shore for a very long time. > > > > ~ André Gide > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Laura Shumate > snowflake122188@... > Business Phone: 254-300-7667 > Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 > > > > > > > > > > > -- |
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K0LNY
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In Nebraska and Iowa and some other states, the
state rehab agency makes all new staff spend their first three months of work,
in training with blindfolds.
The wind up not being experts in Blindness skills,
but fair, and confident in teaching the skills because they know how well they
work.
I think that TVI as well as O&M
instructors should be required to do this as well.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: David Diamond
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member Here is a twist, A group of O & M instructors were at a seminare with some of their students. The power went out and they panicked. They went so far as to put candles on the rug so they could be guided by the candle light. One of their students offered to guide them, they declined. Point? This is already been touched on, it is one thing to teach a skill but when, as they say the rubber hits the road, does the teacher practice what they teach or does fear set in? I think it is excellent that a teacher of VIPs wants to join a list like this because it gives him or her insight into our world.
From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn /
Lenny
I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of sight. If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught. Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be no way to police it. And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a problem lister. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Barnett Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
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K0LNY
That sounds more like a complaint.
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Perhaps she could sit in in a very dark room for five or ten minutes before going home. But if folks don't like it, they will find a way to make it have negative consequences. And if she really believed in its benefit, perhaps she would have thought of that. Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Diamond" <Daviddiamond2019@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:41 AM Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home. After seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information, it was over whelming to her. -----Original Message---- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura Shumate Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access Technology is a cool thing. I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said after a day he wanted no more to do with it. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote: > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of sight. > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught. > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or > gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be no way to police it. > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a > problem lister. > Glenn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Randy Barnett > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. > > > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote: > > > I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after > Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point? > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they > are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I > could see it I would not be calling your department. > > > > From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel > Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > > Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem. > > I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same. > -- > > Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 > > One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of > the shore for a very long time. > > ~ André Gide > > > > > > > -- Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 |
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K0LNY
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Exactly, the blindfold does not give anyone the
experience of being Blind, for the reason you mentioned.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: David Diamond
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member The school that requires all students to wear a blind fold does this so everyone is on a level playing field. True instructors can do wear a blind fold, but they can take it off at the end of the day. Apparently at one school, a trainer took the blind fold off right away because she panicked. Must be nice to get your sight back and have that ability. Grin.
From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy
Barnett
Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
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On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:52 AM, David Diamond wrote:
For the trainer to wear a blind fold it shows whether the dog is indeed guiding them properly or they are in a sense directing the dog.- David, in that context, it makes perfect sense. It's a test of both trainer and trainee where one knows the actual end-user of the trainee has no sight. My central point is that instant, artificial removal of a sense one has generally has little utility as far as "making someone know what it's like" for someone living, long term, with loss (or never having had) that same sense. It certainly gives a sense, and an accurate one, of what it's like in the early days of someone who finds themselves having lost a sense very suddenly, which can be useful as a teaching tool, but it's a mistake to believe that what you get from the person so artificially deprived is any sense of what it's like to live with something permanent and over the long term. I have had a number of people argue that I simply cannot know that it is to be a screen reader user unless I blindfold myself. And my response is I cannot know what it is to be a screen reader user, period. If I'm blindfolded, I'm instantly deprived of a sense I use to figure out what's happening in my world normally, including at times with a screen reader (I'd say most times, as I use things like Focus Highlight in NVDA and the analog in JAWS). My normal modus operandi is as a sighted person, and I cannot and will not ever know, in any meaningful sense, what it is to be blind unless I were to become so. And when I have to operate in an artificial state of sensory deprivation, that's not representative of "normal life" for those who are constantly in that state in any way. The degree of frustration and panic may be representative of "a stage," but not of long term living, and that stage is far more fraught than what develops after compensatory skills are developed. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide |
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K0LNY
There has to be a benefit involved.
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If for example, he thought he was going to lose much more sight, or all of it, that may have motivated him more. I think it was probably more beneficial for him to believe that you can do something that he cannot. The benefit for sighted trainers may be that they can keep their job. I know that in Iowa and Nebraska, if new staff does not succeed their first three months of training with them on, they lose their job. Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Shumate" <snowflake122188@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member Hi David, I told my X husband one day to close his eyes for 1 hour he didn't even last 30 minutes. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/28/21, David Diamond <Daviddiamond2019@...> wrote: A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at -- |
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Gerald Levy
So now this has become a list for the discussion of blindness rehab and O&M training, neither of which has any connection whatsoever to JAWS. For those of you who insist on continuing this off-topic thread, I suggest joining the Blind-Talk list, which is a more general forum where just about anything is permissible for discussion. To join, send a blank message to:
Gerald
On 1/28/2021 12:17 PM, Glenn / Lenny
wrote:
That sounds more like a complaint. Perhaps she could sit in in a very dark room for five or ten minutes before going home. But if folks don't like it, they will find a way to make it have negative consequences. And if she really believed in its benefit, perhaps she would have thought of that. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diamond" <Daviddiamond2019@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:41 AM Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home. After seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information, it was over whelming to her. -----Original Message---- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura Shumate Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access Technology is a cool thing. I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said after a day he wanted no more to do with it. Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote: > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds. > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of sight. > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught. > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or > gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be no way to police it. > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a > problem lister. > Glenn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Randy Barnett > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us. > > > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote: > > > I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after > Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point? > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they > are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I > could see it I would not be calling your department. > > > > From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel > Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM > To: main@jfw.groups.io > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member > > > > Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem. > > I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same. > -- > > Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 > > One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of > the shore for a very long time. > > ~ André Gide > > > > > > > -- Laura Shumate snowflake122188@... Business Phone: 254-300-7667 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684 |
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On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:00 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
I suggest joining the Blind-Talk list,- Topic drift is endemic to any group, upon occasion. And the JAWS group has historically allowed topics that are tangentially related, at best, to JAWS. This group has never been strictly moderated. I'd suggest that you, and anyone else who gets frustrated with a given topic on any group, learn how to use the tools that Groups.io gives every user to control the messages they receive to begin with, or keep receiving. In this case, the Mute this Topic link at the end of every blessed message. Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx) -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide |
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