Date
1 - 14 of 14
Moderated JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mike B.
Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link
to the Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion 2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you experience related to installation or authorization using the Public Beta. For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly to Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical assistance. Also, please submit one
problem per report.
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you experience related to installation or authorization using the Public Beta. For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly to Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical assistance. Also, please submit one
problem per report.
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
soner
Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:
Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Chris Hill
Ahhh, I used to ask those questions myself. Then it came to me, there don't have to be any major changes, if you need for stuff to keep working as it is upgraded, such as your browser or office 365, you keep paying. They have to keep working, just to stay in the same place, and that can't be done for nothing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/11/2020 12:36, soner wrote:
Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
soner
When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:
Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public
Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical
assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Chris Hill
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect, but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:
When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public
Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical
assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
soner
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any
screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a
defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say
love or leave.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a
defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say
love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use office
365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll pay, if
NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but as far as I
can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do so there it
is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a mac and left
lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect, but of the
three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who want or need
less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the
Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public
Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly
to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical
assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Chris Hill
My point is that it is not exploitation, at least not proven as of yet. If they don't keep working, we lose access. How much of their work is required to keep the thing going may be questioned, but doubting its existence is not sensible.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/11/2020 13:49, soner wrote:
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any
screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a
defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say
love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use office
365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll pay, if
NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but as far as I
can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do so there it
is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a mac and left
lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect, but of the
three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who want or need
less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the
Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public
Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly
to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical
assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Larry Wayland
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use
office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll
pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but
as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do
so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a
mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect,
but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who
want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going
on with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes
making this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to
the Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText,
or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems
you experience related to installation or authorization using the
Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback
directly to Freedom Scientific using the Beta Report Form web page.
Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can
easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Norma A. Boge
Right on, Chris! I couldn't agree with you more. Do I love self-funding my Jaws so I can do what I need to do? No, but I don't have a choice. And I am pretty jazzed about the new features in 2021. Fingers crossed that other features I've grown accustomed to aren't broken. Regards, Norma
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect, but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect, but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:
When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes
making this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the
Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText,
or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems
you experience related to installation or authorization using the
Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback
directly to Freedom Scientific using the Beta Report Form web page.
Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can
easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Dan Longmore
Hi,
Most companies which are in business , in part, to make a profit continually add and change features in the desire to keep you returning for their product. Part of the American system and consumers are free to choose if they will invest.
With screen readers and other products features change and must continually be upgraded. Most technology today , apps and operating systems, are being updated every few weeks or months and thus screen readers are forced to update, upgrade and adapt.
While one can use an older screen reader without updating the person, will most likely, fail to achieve the best possible experience and may even encounter problems that make some software and sites inaccessible.
The model has its problems, to be sure, but the best we have right now.
Dan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Most companies which are in business , in part, to make a profit continually add and change features in the desire to keep you returning for their product. Part of the American system and consumers are free to choose if they will invest.
With screen readers and other products features change and must continually be upgraded. Most technology today , apps and operating systems, are being updated every few weeks or months and thus screen readers are forced to update, upgrade and adapt.
While one can use an older screen reader without updating the person, will most likely, fail to achieve the best possible experience and may even encounter problems that make some software and sites inaccessible.
The model has its problems, to be sure, but the best we have right now.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 2:26 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course, we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 2:26 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course, we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:
Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the
Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public
Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly
to Freedom Scientific using the Beta Report Form web page. Please
bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can easily
locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Dan Longmore
Hi,
We all hate regulations however I agree with your point and would like to see that all sites and developers be required to make their applications, to the best of their ability, accessible for people with disabilities. It can be done and the question comes down to whether it will occur out of the goodness of the heart of the developer or by requirement.
Let's be grateful here too , much progress has been made and more and more companies are listening and trying their best.
Dan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
We all hate regulations however I agree with your point and would like to see that all sites and developers be required to make their applications, to the best of their ability, accessible for people with disabilities. It can be done and the question comes down to whether it will occur out of the goodness of the heart of the developer or by requirement.
Let's be grateful here too , much progress has been made and more and more companies are listening and trying their best.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Wayland
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 6:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Wayland
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 6:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use
office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll
pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but
as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do
so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a
mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect,
but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who
want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going
on with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes
making this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to
the Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText,
or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems
you experience related to installation or authorization using the
Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback
directly to Freedom Scientific using the Beta Report Form web page.
Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can
easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Deb and the girls
Amen to the idea that these companies need to work toward overcoming proprietary software problems that most companies continually have due to upgrades and new technology. My fear is that if Freedom Scientiffic and others do not stay at the top of their game, blind persons will be losing their jobs through no fault of their employers and no fault of theirs; but the result of technologies not allowing the blind employee to compete equally with sighted piers.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Wayland
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 5:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Wayland
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 5:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use
office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll
pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but
as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do
so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a
mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect,
but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who
want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going
on with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes
making this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to
the Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText,
or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems
you experience related to installation or authorization using the
Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback
directly to Freedom Scientific using the Beta Report Form web page.
Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can
easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Don Walls
The persons who have responded to this thread are preaching to the choir, so to speak. Why not direct comments to software producers or the companies who employ them? Otherwise, this thread is just a series of rants or "ditto" comments. Some good points have been made, so pass them to the places where at least they willb e heard by those responsible for the changes.
Don
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Deb and the girls
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 3:29 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Amen to the idea that these companies need to work toward overcoming proprietary software problems that most companies continually have due to upgrades and new technology. My fear is that if Freedom Scientiffic and others do not stay at the top of their game, blind persons will be losing their jobs through no fault of their employers and no fault of theirs; but the result of technologies not allowing the blind employee to compete equally with sighted piers.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Wayland
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 5:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
From: Deb and the girls
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 3:29 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Amen to the idea that these companies need to work toward overcoming proprietary software problems that most companies continually have due to upgrades and new technology. My fear is that if Freedom Scientiffic and others do not stay at the top of their game, blind persons will be losing their jobs through no fault of their employers and no fault of theirs; but the result of technologies not allowing the blind employee to compete equally with sighted piers.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Wayland
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 5:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
In my opinion, we have been dealing with computer accessibility since the early 80's, and I think it is high time companies make this stuff work and work right. Too many blind people are not working because of the lack of accessibility to work sites. If they are working now and have good accessibility they are always concerned about what is going to happen after the next update. I am not jumping on the developers of access software necessarily. the developers of the operating systems are mostly to blame and then of course the developers of software packages for the work sites.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of soner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS2021 Beta Report Link
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say love or leave.
On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use
office 365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll
pay, if NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but
as far as I can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do
so there it is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a
mac and left lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect,
but of the three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who
want or need less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going
on with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes
making this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to
the Beta report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText,
or Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems
you experience related to installation or authorization using the
Public Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback
directly to Freedom Scientific using the Beta Report Form web page.
Please bookmark the report page in your web browser so that you can
easily locate it if you need technical assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Leedy Diane Bomar
Diane Bomar
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 11, 2020, at 12:57, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
My point is that it is not exploitation, at least not proven as of yet. If they don't keep working, we lose access. How much of their work is required to keep the thing going may be questioned, but doubting its existence is not sensible.
Chris,
I totally disagree with your argument! It is, and has been, exploitation since JFW was allowed to exist rather than MS including full access in Windows. There ridiculous argument was that they didn't want to put the adaptive tecch vendors out of business. It had absolutely nothing to do with what was best for blind customers. Adding full access to Windows, may have added pennies to each copy sold, but, no, we were FORCED to pay exorbitant prices, over 25 years for a subpar product! In 2010, DOJ was ordered to write language and regs for ADA that would require equal access to virtual environments. Keep in mind that WCAG 2.0 was written before anyone had smartphones, so in 2010 the landscape was very different than it is today. DOJ wanted clarity from the W3C and that did not come until June, 2019. By that time, the DOJ civil rights division was pretty much destroyed by our current administration. However, in 2019 2400 lawsuits were filed in the courts against companies who refused to make their apps and web sites accessible. Funny thing is that in 2017 FS began to wooing large corporations, such as Amazon. They wanted to own the accessible web and app space, and wanted these companies to be dependent on them to make their web sites work. Thus, the purchase of The Paciello Group (TPG), which has its own sordid history that I will not go into at this point.
I want inclusion not dependence. Companies need to train their own development staffs in accessibility design considerations, and require their developers to code for accessibility in such a way that it does not compromise the visual integrity of the product. Vispero is in the business of keeping blindness accessibility issues out of the mainstream, and it hurts all of us. They have monopolized, and intentionally taken away other options, such as Window-Eyes, which if that deal had gone on in the mainstream market would have been not allowed by the Federal Trade Commission.
There are great articles in Medium, a great app, btw about accessibility, politics, and anything people want to submit.
The bottom line is that we need a Federal administration that cares about civil rights, restores DOJ, and allows them to update the 30 year old ADA. This attitude of acceptance of subpar products and services, and depending on the private sector to do the "right thing" is irrational, at best. The placid attitudes of blind people refusing to take charge of our place in society, and settling for the table scraps, must stop! Vispero is a disgraceful company, that has exponentially grown for the sole purpose of exploiting the needs of people who are blind. They have duped government and academic institutions, in much the same way that a dictator would. They eliminate choice, and we are all beholden to them. People are "grateful" to them and "fear" a world in which they don't exist. Wake up, people! We are not a subclass of humans, we deserve equal employment opportunities and must be included in mainstream society, not depend on companies that encourage the myth that blind people are aliens and need special companies who understand their needs! Yes, Vispero is a great example of American capitalism, defining a market, as a separate niche and exploiting everyone.Hardware is a separate matter, and I won't go into that debacle, here. The bottom line is full inclusion within mainstream companies.
My point is that it is not exploitation, at least not proven as of yet. If they don't keep working, we lose access. How much of their work is required to keep the thing going may be questioned, but doubting its existence is not sensible.
On 9/11/2020 13:49, soner wrote:
Mr. Hill, my aim is not to discuss the strength or weaknesses of any
screen reading software, but to point at a blatant exploitation of a
defacto monopoly. So, I do not think that it is as simple as to say
love or leave.On 9/11/20, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
You could happily use a three or four year old version of jaws, if you
didn't get online, didn't allow windows to upgrade and didn't use office
365, otherwise, you can either pay or switch to nvda. I'll pay, if
NVDA did all I wanted it to do, I could save some money, but as far as I
can tell, there are still things I need that it doesn't do so there it
is. I'm grateful for jaws, having tried nvda, and tried a mac and left
lacking the access I want on both. Nothing is perfect, but of the
three, jaws is still the best for what I do. Others who want or need
less can probably save themselves a ton of money.
On 9/11/2020 13:25, soner wrote:When you divide one feature into bits and pieces and scale it to
versions and eat up people's SMas and ask for upgrade to avail the
remaining parts of one feature introduced in the past, this makes
nothing but a fact clear that this is a sheer robbery. But of course,
we are almost unlikely to hear any American blindness advocating
foundation to bring this years of version proliferation issue to the
court.
My last words to you the Americans, wake up and beware what's going on
with your versions and how they're eaten up guys!
On 9/11/20, soner via groups.io <soner.boun@...> wrote:Hi, I am almost sure that the voluntary FS lawyers in the list will
keep flooding and trolling upon this feed-back, but I cannot help
stating that this version is a joke, and FS makes it for years. I
really would like to know, what is/are the major change/changes making
this version to be called 21?
On 9/11/20, Mike B <mb69mach1@...> wrote:Hi All,
Below is a note about Jaws2021 Beta tech support and the link to the
Beta
report page.
While in public beta, general technical support of JAWS, ZoomText, or
Fusion
2021 is not available using our direct support phone lines or email.
However,
you may use normal support lines in order to resolve any problems you
experience related to installation or authorization using the Public
Beta.
For all
other issues you may discover, we ask that you send feedback directly
to
Freedom Scientific using the
Beta Report Form web page. Please bookmark the report page in your web
browser so that you can easily locate it if you need technical
assistance.
Also, please submit one
problem per report.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Forms/FSBetaReport
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!
Chris,
I totally disagree with your argument! It is, and has been, exploitation since JFW was allowed to exist rather than MS including full access in Windows. There ridiculous argument was that they didn't want to put the adaptive tecch vendors out of business. It had absolutely nothing to do with what was best for blind customers. Adding full access to Windows, may have added pennies to each copy sold, but, no, we were FORCED to pay exorbitant prices, over 25 years for a subpar product! In 2010, DOJ was ordered to write language and regs for ADA that would require equal access to virtual environments. Keep in mind that WCAG 2.0 was written before anyone had smartphones, so in 2010 the landscape was very different than it is today. DOJ wanted clarity from the W3C and that did not come until June, 2019. By that time, the DOJ civil rights division was pretty much destroyed by our current administration. However, in 2019 2400 lawsuits were filed in the courts against companies who refused to make their apps and web sites accessible. Funny thing is that in 2017 FS began to wooing large corporations, such as Amazon. They wanted to own the accessible web and app space, and wanted these companies to be dependent on them to make their web sites work. Thus, the purchase of The Paciello Group (TPG), which has its own sordid history that I will not go into at this point.
I want inclusion not dependence. Companies need to train their own development staffs in accessibility design considerations, and require their developers to code for accessibility in such a way that it does not compromise the visual integrity of the product. Vispero is in the business of keeping blindness accessibility issues out of the mainstream, and it hurts all of us. They have monopolized, and intentionally taken away other options, such as Window-Eyes, which if that deal had gone on in the mainstream market would have been not allowed by the Federal Trade Commission.
There are great articles in Medium, a great app, btw about accessibility, politics, and anything people want to submit.
The bottom line is that we need a Federal administration that cares about civil rights, restores DOJ, and allows them to update the 30 year old ADA. This attitude of acceptance of subpar products and services, and depending on the private sector to do the "right thing" is irrational, at best. The placid attitudes of blind people refusing to take charge of our place in society, and settling for the table scraps, must stop! Vispero is a disgraceful company, that has exponentially grown for the sole purpose of exploiting the needs of people who are blind. They have duped government and academic institutions, in much the same way that a dictator would. They eliminate choice, and we are all beholden to them. People are "grateful" to them and "fear" a world in which they don't exist. Wake up, people! We are not a subclass of humans, we deserve equal employment opportunities and must be included in mainstream society, not depend on companies that encourage the myth that blind people are aliens and need special companies who understand their needs! Yes, Vispero is a great example of American capitalism, defining a market, as a separate niche and exploiting everyone.Hardware is a separate matter, and I won't go into that debacle, here. The bottom line is full inclusion within mainstream companies.