hi folks,

i know that this is not the forum for this question, but maybe one of you good people might have some ideas as to where i should go.

currently, i have an old nokia phone about 300 years of age.

i have decided to take the great leap into the unknown and start using a modern tap screen phone.

i have a samsung android phone with talkback on it, but it is proving to be somewhat of a trouble.

i would say, that it is just because i am new to it, but web sites offering training tips seem to be non existent.

also, the braille keyboard seems to be a bit of a pain. i also dont want to have to attach a keyboard to it, as this defeats the purpose of having a phone you can carry around with you.

on the other hand, i have heard, that apple's voice over is much better.

again, training seems to be the problem. i should be able to get my hands on an ifone.

any thoughts?

anyone prefer one over the other?

cheers,

pat

I also think iOS is just more intuitive and even after all these years when both platforms have matured, iOS is in my view more polished and easier to use.

There is a load of material about iOS and iPhones out there, www.Applevis.com is just one example, Apple has an accessibility support line as well as email address and if you call their support and need help they can even connect to your phone and see what you are doing.

There are email lists for both Android and iOS, the Viphone list is one I have been on for the last 10 years or so since I started using an iPhone.

If you really want to use a keyboard you can actually get Apple's camera connection cable and use it to connect a USB keyboard, but in my opinion a Bluetooth keyboard makes much more sense with a mobile device and there are lots of great options out there from Logitech as well as others.

As for price any high-end Android phone nowadays costs just as much as the high-end iPhones, yes, you can probably pick up a cheap Android phone for $200 or so, but then again the new iPhone SE 2 which was recently released also is not that expensive and from all I heard on the Viphone list as well as in general it's fantastic phone.

I guess it all depends on what you plan to do with the phone, for me being able to transfer information from my PC to the phone by copying and pasting is not very important, I have an Apple Music subscription so I never store mucis on the device any more, I do just about all my audio book listening on Audible and the odd book I have in MP3 I can easily transfer to Voice Dream Reader via Dropbox.

I consider to be a pretty profficient user of my iPhone, but I absolutely don't believe in being able to replace a computer with my iPhone, I don't compose long texts on my phone, if I have to type a longer email or want to have an on-going text chat on Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp or other app I do use my Bluetooth keyboard. I have a Logitech K780 which I use via its USB dongle as my primary keyboard for my laptop and if I want to use it wih my iPhone all I have to do is press FN+F2 and it switches over, when I'm done I press F1 and I'm back on my PC.

Best regards,

Sieghard

By Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau. I found it invalueable. I know this has been updated so should still be available. There may be tutorials for Android but I don’t know of any.

Alison

Hi,

The equivalent book for Android is called Getting Started with Android by Ana Garza.  An e-book version is available for purchase from the National Braille Press.

It’s a bit dated but still well worth it for new users as Android fundamentals haven’t changed significantly.

Cheers,

Ed

For the record, the Google Disability Support Team can remote into an Android phone to assist with resolving an issue. And, of course, they can also help with issues regarding Chrome, G Suite, YouTube and Chromebooks.

https://support.google.com/accessibility

Google Disability Support team

Nowadays both Android and iOS take from each other, there are just so many good ideas these developers have and it's of course normal that if Android developers come up with an awsome idea that iOS may implement something very similar and vice versa.

I think there is very little point to bash one platform over the other just as there is no point in bashing Jaws over NVDA or the other way around or Windows over Mac OS etc.

All of these platforms and systems nowadays are mature, advanced and it's good people have choices. I personally prefer iOS and Apple has given users many options to customize the UI. In iOS 14 they are going a step further by allowing users to change their default mail client and browser so if you wanted you could set Outlook as your default mail program or use Edge or Chrome as your default browser.

Once again, this is just my opinion, but Apple's control over both hardware and software has many good sides as well, their walled garden approach makes iOS somewhat less prone to exploits, a lot fewer devices make it easier for app developers to keep up with changes and one big thing for me is how Apple supports older devices for years and years with the latest software. In the most recent WWDC keynote Apple announced that iOS 14 will still support the iPhone 6S/6S Plus and the original iPhone SE, this means phones which were released in 2015 get the newest OS released in 2020. Not including iOS 9 which came with the iPhone 6S/6S Plus this is 5 major updates and support for 6 versions of iOS if you count the original iOS 9. If somebody bought an iPhone 6S in the fall of 2015 this means by the fall of 2021 when iOS 15 comes out and when, I assume, the iPhone 6S will not be supported any more, you can use your iPhone for 6 years and have the latest OS version. Of course you won't have all the features of the last couple of versions as iPhone 6S hardware may not support some of the newer stuff, but that is still impressive and very different from the more fractured landscape of Android where carriers may not push new updates beyond the first year or two.

I have a friend in Germany who bought an iPhone 5S in 2013 and every time a new phone comes out as recently the new iPhone SE he thinks about upgrading and then he says that for what he does his iPhone 5S works so well and he like sthe smaller form factor so much that he ends up not doing it. He had the battery replaced once in that time and I think even the biggest Android fan must admit that it's impressive that you can still use an almost 7-year old device.

Of course personally I also never recommend people buy a new iPhone now as we are only 3 months and possible a bit less away from the new 2020 phones being released. If you do definitely buy the new SE (if you are looking for a budget phone) or maybe last year's iPhone 11, but given the rumours and even some of what Apple has recently confirmed with respect to the iPhone 12 this fall, I would totally hold off. For one thing if you do plan to keep your phone for years to come, the iPhone 12 series phones will have 5G support which will be rolling out over the next couple of years and it would seem that Apple will actually drop the price by $50 as well as include a 20 Watt fast charger and Lightning to USB-C cable, another $50 value unless the iPhone 12 of course switches from Lightning to USB-C in the frist place.

Best regards,

Sieghard

Hi,

This is all down to personal preference.

While Android devices don’t get as many software updates as iOS devices, the screen reader still receives updates independently of the software version, which means that, in a lot of cases, changes to Talkback can be pushed out more quickly and efficiently instead of waiting for iOS updates.

A lot of good things on both sides now, though. You can snatch up a budget Android phone, like the Moto g 7 or moto e series for less than an iPhone SE and get really good performance for most tasks, apart from being just a little slower in things like OCR. You can then pop in a Micro sd card to add some cheap storage.

Both companies are cracking down on security, and while apple is the most talked about in regards to assistive technology, Android is right up there in regards to most tasks that users perform on a handset. It really depends what you want out of a phone. I still have a Samsung Galaxy s4 from 2013. It’s running Android 5.1 – we’re now on Android 10 – and while it may not be the quickest, it still gets around just fine for most tasks. It also isn’t my daily driver – that is a OnePlus 6t which I love along with an iPhone 7. Apple really has software longevity on older devices going for it. That’s a huge plus, especially when someone spends money on one of their more flagship devices like the upcoming iPhone 12.

Android also allows one to do stereo recording in audio for those that like that sort of thing. I like having a file browser similar to my computer where I can copy and paste files wherever I may choose. I like copying files directly to the phone over USB with the computer rather than going through iTunes. I don’t like that companies make Android such an afterthought – voice dream reader has yet to release an actual change log for what has been added for Android, for instance, meanwhile iOS gets amazingly detailed ones. I like that iOS now has custom gestures. So many positives to both sides.

I am pretty happy with Android but I don’t honestly use my phone all that much. I’ve thought of trying to connect my braille display but haven’t bothered, especially now that I have a laptop…everything I’ve heard so far suggests that it can be done but that it’s quite a painful process, and I’m not that patient. I’m not a fan of Apple as a company so I will probably never acquire one of their products (though they made my first computer in the 80s, an Apple Ii E, they were a different company then…)

There is many levels you can look at the differences of Android VS Apple. The underlying Accessibility model, the SDK model, the user interface, the fragmentation of the market of versions, how different models work. As I use both for testing and as an user. Let me touch upon both. I am not going to say which one is better. As this comes down to your own personal usage and needs. Some users find Android or Apple is better for their needs.

• Android TalkBack is a separate program. If you use Samsung, then you have to install Talkback. As Voice Assist is the default screen reader and as far as I am concern. Has not kept up to the changes made to the underlying accessibility framework. Talkback is better then Voice Assist.
• Software version control in my opinion is not as fragmented as the Android market. Any statistics out there will demonstrate that majority of Apple phones are using the latest OS which is supported for their device. Apple does force the upgrade. But users can opt out of this. Android also does force upgrade. Due to the larger number of models of phone. There is far more variation of OS versions out there.
• All iPhones work with your finger. Android devices cannot claim this at all. In fact, one of the Android devices I am using, you cannot use your finger correctly with the keyboard. You might be wanting to enter in a letter ‘I”. But a different letter is enter. If you use the stylist which comes with the phone. Then you don’t have the issue. This is all related to the touch size area. Not all Android phones have this issue.
• You have far more flexibility with Android than you do with Apple. Android has launch pads which you can change. I had to do this with one of my Android models to make TalkBack work correctly when using the angle gestures.
• Android permits you to navigate by control, header, link, paragraph, line, word and char plus the default. Apple does not. Apple only provides char, word, line, header. I am referring here to native apps which are not web based.
• All the Apple phones I have used, the gestures work  without any issues. I started with the iPhone 4 and now I have an iPhone 11. I cannot say I have had the same experience on the Android. I have used the Google Pixcel II and Samsung Note 10 with the same problem where the phone does not automatically detect my finger. I have to muck around for a while before it occurs.
• Android has better keyboard support. Apples isn’t bad, but not quite there. Android you can use the tab key to navigate any app. Apple this does not always occur.
• I find the apple apps as a whole are far better to use with VoiceOver than Talkback. I used Audible on both platforms. I found a lot of issues with the Android app compared to the Apple version. This also applies to other apps.
• Someone mention having TalkBack as a separate app is a good thing. I don’t think this is the case. A lot of the things I don’t like about TalkBack and Android is due to this fact. VoiceOver is at the OS layer. Hence the interaction is far better. An example is on the Pixcel II using Android 8.1 and still exist in Android 10. Navigating using the left and right swipe. The focus to the next item can jump to a unexpected location. This does occur if you are scolling. I have never seen this in Apple using the same gesture in their settings app to scroll through the items. Apples good interaction is all due to the screen reader being a part of the OS.
• Drag and drop on the Apple is far nicer than Android. Apple you get an action option. This allows you to select an item to drag, then append another item to the drag and finally choose if you want to placed the dragged items before or after where you want to drop it. You are guided at each point of the interaction. Android you have to perform a double tap and hold. Then drag your finger to the location. I find this method harder.
• Apple gesture are easier to remember. This is because I learnt the apple first. I don’t like the angle methodology at all by the way. I have got to used to it. But it is very hard to remember. I have been using it over 6 months now regularly. If you struggle in memory which angle gesture does what, then it is a poor user experience. This is because you should not have to think to use it. This is where in my mind apple for the basic gesture you use everyday is easier. Left, right, up and down swipe, double tap and the router. You can do everything just about on the phone.
• The default TTS on apple is better than Android. Android you can use different TTS. Apple you cannot.

The biggest issue all both mobile platforms have is the range of object (controls) available in the SDK. A control/object is an edit, button, link, ETC. In the accessibility  world they call them roles. Android calls them types. Apple call them trades. An example where a role is  missing is lists box or list views. In an email program, you never know if you are on message 25 of 100. Windows and Mac you get this information. Another example is radio buttons. Doesn’t exist on mobile. These are just two examples.

End of the day, you need to really spend some time with both devices to see which one works for you. This is the hardest bit to do. Statistically in Australia majority of Low vision and Blind users use Apple. It is over 60%. I think Android has about 17%. That is the other consideration. I don’t know if this is the same case in other countries.

Sean