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Moderated Antivirus software.

david Jennette
 

Hi. I’ve asked this a few years ago but I figured it’s time to ask again do to things changing. I’m wondering if Windows defender is still the most accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with Jaws. Thanks.
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Hi Dave. Windows Security works great with both JAWS and NVDA.

               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 

From: david Jennette
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 6:37 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Antivirus software.

 

Hi. I’ve asked this a few years ago but I figured it’s time to ask again do to things changing. I’m wondering if Windows defender is still the most accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with Jaws. Thanks.

 
Pastor Gil Pries <gilp@...>
 

Windows Defender works well.

I use it and haven’t had any viruses.

 

Pastor Gil

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of david Jennette
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:37 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Antivirus software.

 

Hi. I’ve asked this a few years ago but I figured it’s time to ask again do to things changing. I’m wondering if Windows defender is still the most accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with Jaws. Thanks.
David Griffith
 

I have heard a lot about how Windows Defender has improved. So much so I
abandoned the ESET Smart security subscription I had because of
deteriorating accessibility.
I have however kept my old 1.7 version of Malwarebytes going and resisted
program upgrade to maintain accessibility although I let the virus database
keep up to date.
Thank goodness I did. During the last week Malwarebytes identified a Trojan
on my laptop that Windows Defender was completely oblivious of despite my
performing a complete Windows Defender scan after the Malwarebytes alert.
I turned to Windows Defender as Initially Malwarebytes was struggling and
failing to quarantine this Trojan threat.
On investigation it had infected one of the plug-in directories of
Videoland VLC. Uninstalling VLC did not succeed in removing the offending
files and predictably trying to delete these files manually also failed as
Windows identified them as being used by another process.
Eventually a full scan by Malwarebyte was able to remove this trojan from my
registry in memory and I was finally able to also delete the offending VLC
directories as a failsafe.
What was more concerning was the fact that Windows Defender was completely
unaware of this problem and failed to react.
David Griffith

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of david Jennette
Sent: 06 June 2020 23:37
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Antivirus software.

Hi. I've asked this a few years ago but I figured it's time to ask again do
to things changing. I'm wondering if Windows defender is still the most
accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with
Jaws. Thanks.
Emre Rencber
 

Windows defender is so accessible but it is'nt good guard. I recommend
Kaspersky. But, there are very accessibility problem this software. Of
course it is very very very good antivirus.

2020-06-07 1:37 GMT+03:00, david Jennette <dcjenn@...>:

Hi. I've asked this a few years ago but I figured it's time to ask again do
to things changing. I'm wondering if Windows defender is still the most
accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well
with
Jaws. Thanks.
Brian Vogel
 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 07:23 PM, Emre Rencber wrote:
Windows defender is so accessible but it is'nt good guard.
Absolutely, positively incorrect.  And it's been incorrect ever since the redesign of Windows Defender, now Windows Security, for Windows 8.1.  I trust the testing of the labs that do this sort of thing a lot more than the pronouncements of random members on any forum/group.  For those who want to see what the professionals who test this stuff repeatedly have to say, See the most recent plus the last several years of historical test results from:

AV Test

AV Comparatives

SE Labs  (Reports Page)

MRG Effitas  (360 Protection Testing Category)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss
Brian Vogel
 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 07:00 PM, David Griffith wrote:
What was more concerning was the fact that Windows Defender was completely
unaware of this problem and failed to react.
David,

          I cannot definitively say this is what happened here, but you need to familiarize yourself with the concept of the false positive, which all scanners occasionally have.

          Also, the site, virustotal.com, allows you to submit either a file by upload, or URLs that would download something, for scanning by over 70 engines.  Unless you have a huge majority of these declaring something bad, you can be quite sure it's a false positive.  It's not unusual to have up to 5 of the engines flag something that all the others do not.  False positives simply happen.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss
david Jennette
 

I sent this an hour or so ago but didn’t see it post to the list so I’m going to try again. Sorry if you all get the message a second time.

I’m wondering if windows defender is still the best antivirus software to use with jaws or if there are now other packages that are accessible now. I figured I’d ask because some time has passed and things might have changed. Thanks.
Brian Vogel
 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 08:20 PM, david Jennette wrote:
I sent this an hour or so ago but didn’t see it post to the list so I’m going to try again.
---------

It posted the first time, and you have received multiple responses.  Check your spam folder and/or filters.

You can review what has already been said here:  https://jfw.groups.io/g/main/topic/74722542

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss
david Jennette
 

Thanks. It's still looking like defender is the package of choice. I do know it's improving but I did want to see if anyone had heard of any accessibility improvements in other security software. Just a head's up. Your probably going to see a repeat of my original message because for some reason it took an hour or two to post to the list so I sent it again. Sorry about that.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Emre Rencber
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 6:23 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Antivirus software.

Windows defender is so accessible but it is'nt good guard. I recommend Kaspersky. But, there are very accessibility problem this software. Of course it is very very very good antivirus.

2020-06-07 1:37 GMT+03:00, david Jennette <dcjenn@...>:
Hi. I've asked this a few years ago but I figured it's time to ask
again do to things changing. I'm wondering if Windows defender is
still the most accessible antivirus software or if there are others
now that work well with Jaws. Thanks.
Patrick Murphy <murphy.patrick42@...>
 

Hi,

I too use eset. Despite a number of calls to them about accessibility, it
has fallen on deaf ears.
pat

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David
Griffith
Sent: Sunday 7 June 2020 00:00
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Antivirus software.

I have heard a lot about how Windows Defender has improved. So much so I
abandoned the ESET Smart security subscription I had because of
deteriorating accessibility.
I have however kept my old 1.7 version of Malwarebytes going and resisted
program upgrade to maintain accessibility although I let the virus database
keep up to date.
Thank goodness I did. During the last week Malwarebytes identified a Trojan
on my laptop that Windows Defender was completely oblivious of despite my
performing a complete Windows Defender scan after the Malwarebytes alert.
I turned to Windows Defender as Initially Malwarebytes was struggling and
failing to quarantine this Trojan threat.
On investigation it had infected one of the plug-in directories of
Videoland VLC. Uninstalling VLC did not succeed in removing the offending
files and predictably trying to delete these files manually also failed as
Windows identified them as being used by another process.
Eventually a full scan by Malwarebyte was able to remove this trojan from my
registry in memory and I was finally able to also delete the offending VLC
directories as a failsafe.
What was more concerning was the fact that Windows Defender was completely
unaware of this problem and failed to react.
David Griffith





-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of david Jennette
Sent: 06 June 2020 23:37
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Antivirus software.

Hi. I've asked this a few years ago but I figured it's time to ask again do
to things changing. I'm wondering if Windows defender is still the most
accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with
Jaws. Thanks.
Jason White
 

I don’t know about “most accessible”, as I haven’t been comparing security software for accessibility, but it is highly accessible.

 

Note also that Microsoft has strengthened Windows Defender over time. For example, in Windows 2004, there is now an option to block “potentially unwanted applications” that may not be malware as such, but which have effects that you probably don’t want or don’t intend. Another Windows 10 release (I can’t remember whether it was 1903 or 1909) added “tamper protection” to Windows Defender, which you also need to turn on in Windows Security.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of david Jennette
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 6:37 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Antivirus software.

 

Hi. I’ve asked this a few years ago but I figured it’s time to ask again do to things changing. I’m wondering if Windows defender is still the most accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with Jaws. Thanks.
Blind Tech tutorials And Tips <Shreybhatt04@...>
 

Hi,
You can use malware bites, it is about 90% accessible, and mostly useable, and it is a very strong anti-virus software, most prefer it ove others. Yes windows defender is the most accessible, but if you want a better antivirus, that is accessible 90% of the time and is much more secure than windows defender, I would go for malware bites.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:20 PM david Jennette <dcjenn@...> wrote:

I sent this an hour or so ago but didn’t see it post to the list so I’m going to try again. Sorry if you all get the message a second time.

I’m wondering if windows defender is still the best antivirus software to use with jaws or if there are now other packages that are accessible now. I figured I’d ask because some time has passed and things might have changed. Thanks.
Brian Vogel
 

Malwarebytes, while an excellent product, is in no way a substitute for a full security suite.  Subject matter experts all over the place take great pains to emphasize this:

Malwarebytes Free review | Tom's Guide

I use and like Malwarebytes Free (and know about premium), but, in the words of a Quietman7, a computer security expert on BleepingComputer.com who's got a great reputation, says of Malwarebytes 3.0 and later, "can be used to replace your existing anti-virus or serve as an adjunct anti-malware solution since it lacks some constructs that a traditional anti-virus application employs."

Anything that lacks some constructs, and particularly some of the most recent ones in Windows Security, that Malwarebytes does means it should be an adjunct, not a sole primary, protection.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss
Dan Longmore
 

Hi,

  Mal Ware bytes is not an anti virus program but it is excellent for malware and various other problems.  Windows Defender is a strong anti virus program and while paid ones may have stronger points Windows Defender does a good, job of protecting as long as one is not foolish in their internet travels.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Blind Tech tutorials And Tips
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Antivirus software.

 

Hi,

You can use malware bites, it is about 90% accessible, and mostly useable, and it is a very strong anti-virus software, most prefer it ove others. Yes windows defender is the most accessible, but if you want a better antivirus, that is accessible 90% of the time and is much more secure than windows defender, I would go for malware bites.

 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:20 PM david Jennette <dcjenn@...> wrote:

I sent this an hour or so ago but didn’t see it post to the list so I’m going to try again. Sorry if you all get the message a second time.

I’m wondering if windows defender is still the best antivirus software to use with jaws or if there are now other packages that are accessible now. I figured I’d ask because some time has passed and things might have changed. Thanks.
Brian Vogel
 

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 02:26 PM, Dan Longmore wrote:
Windows Defender is a strong anti virus program and while paid ones may have stronger points
Dan, what follows is not a criticism of what you've said, which is 100% accurate, but an addition.  Any other product, paid or free (at least potentially), may do better than Windows Security does with a given thing.  That's shown time and again in formal tests where each and every major security suite product changes position, often from the last test to the current one, because one of the things tested that's given more weight than others improves in one product while staying the same in others.

This is one reason why any statement that product X is better than product Y, without any qualifications, and regardless of the product, is nothing more than an opinion.  You need to be able to identify what it is that's better, and why, between X and Y across all significant dimensions, how you weight those, and that product X is better across a majority of them before you can declare it better with any objectivity.

I can, and have, given my subjective opinions about what I like best, but that does not make it "best for all users and situations."  I generally try to describe what my criteria were.

So, I'll repeat myself, as I've posted this before.  But the closest thing you (any you) are going to find that are at least somewhat objective measures of the effectiveness of a given security suite across multiple dimensions/functions is to look at the reports from testing labs, and not just the latest one, but going back at least a year, preferably two, to see how the various products have changed places over time, and how the different testers weight things differently such that one declares suite X superior to suite Y while another says just the opposite, but both place them in the top tier of products.  There are no simple declarations with regard to security software.

See the most recent plus the last several years of historical test results from:

AV Test

AV Comparatives

SE Labs  (Reports Page)

MRG Effitas  (360 Protection Testing Category)

This article from Quietman7, a security expert at BleepingComputer.com, makes for interesting reading, too, and directly pertains to the sorts of testing referenced above:  Reflections on Antivirus/Antimalware Testing & Comparisons

 

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss
Don Mauck
 

For me, I’m very happy with the ESET suite of products. I’ve never been a victim of Malware or any other virus. While free is nice and Windows Defender works well enough, I’m very glad o take the extra protection I  very happy with ESET.

 

From: Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Antivirus software.

 

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 02:26 PM, Dan Longmore wrote:

Windows Defender is a strong anti virus program and while paid ones may have stronger points

Dan, what follows is not a criticism of what you've said, which is 100% accurate, but an addition.  Any other product, paid or free (at least potentially), may do better than Windows Security does with a given thing.  That's shown time and again in formal tests where each and every major security suite product changes position, often from the last test to the current one, because one of the things tested that's given more weight than others improves in one product while staying the same in others.

This is one reason why any statement that product X is better than product Y, without any qualifications, and regardless of the product, is nothing more than an opinion.  You need to be able to identify what it is that's better, and why, between X and Y across all significant dimensions, how you weight those, and that product X is better across a majority of them before you can declare it better with any objectivity.

I can, and have, given my subjective opinions about what I like best, but that does not make it "best for all users and situations."  I generally try to describe what my criteria were.

So, I'll repeat myself, as I've posted this before.  But the closest thing you (any you) are going to find that are at least somewhat objective measures of the effectiveness of a given security suite across multiple dimensions/functions is to look at the reports from testing labs, and not just the latest one, but going back at least a year, preferably two, to see how the various products have changed places over time, and how the different testers weight things differently such that one declares suite X superior to suite Y while another says just the opposite, but both place them in the top tier of products.  There are no simple declarations with regard to security software.

See the most recent plus the last several years of historical test results from:

AV Test

AV Comparatives

SE Labs  (Reports Page)

MRG Effitas  (360 Protection Testing Category)

This article from Quietman7, a security expert at BleepingComputer.com, makes for interesting reading, too, and directly pertains to the sorts of testing referenced above:  Reflections on Antivirus/Antimalware Testing & Comparisons

 

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss
David Goldfield
 

MalwareBytes claims that the latest 4.X releases can be used as an antivirus program (not the free, on-demand only version.) However, because they don't use standard definition or signature files I feel a bit jittery depending on it as my main security tool. Their reasons for why this is a nonissue are somewhat compelling and I realize that standard definition files are not the only way to protect a computer. Still I am not comfortable using it as my sole or even my primary security tool.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 6/9/2020 12:55 PM, Blind Tech tutorials And Tips wrote:

Hi,
You can use malware bites, it is about 90% accessible, and mostly useable, and it is a very strong anti-virus software, most prefer it ove others. Yes windows defender is the most accessible, but if you want a better antivirus, that is accessible 90% of the time and is much more secure than windows defender, I would go for malware bites.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:20 PM david Jennette <dcjenn@...> wrote:

I sent this an hour or so ago but didn’t see it post to the list so I’m going to try again. Sorry if you all get the message a second time.

I’m wondering if windows defender is still the best antivirus software to use with jaws or if there are now other packages that are accessible now. I figured I’d ask because some time has passed and things might have changed. Thanks.
David Goldfield
 

Hi. I'm actually surprised that MalwareBytes is still maintaining the 1.7 branch. While it's true that some future versions may have had some accessibility challenges the 4.x version which I last tried three months was reasonably accessible. It might be worth installing it to see how well it performs, considering that its capabilities have certainly improved since V1.7.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 6/6/2020 7:00 PM, David Griffith wrote:
I have heard a lot about how Windows Defender has improved. So much so I
abandoned the ESET Smart security subscription I had because of
deteriorating accessibility.
I have however kept my old 1.7 version of Malwarebytes going and resisted
program upgrade to maintain accessibility although I let the virus database
keep up to date.
Thank goodness I did. During the last week Malwarebytes identified a Trojan
on my laptop that Windows Defender was completely oblivious of despite my
performing a complete Windows Defender scan after the Malwarebytes alert.
I turned to Windows Defender as Initially Malwarebytes was struggling and
failing to quarantine this Trojan threat.
On investigation it had infected one of the plug-in directories of
Videoland VLC. Uninstalling VLC did not succeed in removing the offending
files and predictably trying to delete these files manually also failed as
Windows identified them as being used by another process.
Eventually a full scan by Malwarebyte was able to remove this trojan from my
registry in memory and I was finally able to also delete the offending VLC
directories as a failsafe.
What was more concerning was the fact that Windows Defender was completely
unaware of this problem and failed to react.
David Griffith





-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of david Jennette
Sent: 06 June 2020 23:37
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Antivirus software.

Hi. I've asked this a few years ago but I figured it's time to ask again do
to things changing. I'm wondering if Windows defender is still the most
accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with
Jaws. Thanks.
David Goldfield
 

Hi, David.

As others have already said Microsoft Defender/Windows Security is certainly accessible. In my opinion its interface isn't necessarily the most intuitive but all controls are well labeled and the program is easy to learn, particularly if you explore it thoroughly.

Kaspersky Antivirus has some accessibility with NVDA on its task manager and settings screens, with poor accessibility on the program's main screen. When using JAWS accessibility on the main screen is just about nonexistent when attempting to navigate with tab and shift+tab. For best results I'd recommend using the touch cursor if you use JAWS. When using NVDA object navigation will be almost essential, particularly on the program's main screen. Its installer went from being 100% accessible in 2015 to 100% inaccessible in later versions. However, installing it is definitely possible if you know how to make use of your screen reader's OCR functions since all you really need to do is to keep pressing enter to activate the Next button. At one point the installer downloads most of its components and you'll need to use OCR to know when this process has completed. Again, your screen reader's OCR features will be your friend during this process. Alternatively, you can use an app or service on a smart phone to assist you with this such as Seeing AI, Envision AI, Be My Eyes or AIRA. AIRA has the additional benefit of allowing an agent to remotely access and control your computer using Teamviewer, if needed.

I wrote a review of using Kaspersky with NVDA on my blog. While the post was written several years ago it's still fairly accurate as Kaspersky, for better or worse, has not changed very much in the past five years.

Symantec Endpoint Protection is extremely accessible. However, I think this program may be more for corporate users and I don't know how the Norton products for home users are doing these days when it comes to accessibility. I first used Norton Antivirus in 1999 and, like many programs from that time, it used standard controls and was 100% accessible. Around 2000 or so the interface changed to more of an HTML environment and so it was very different but still accessible. It has been years since I've used a Norton product.

MalwareBytes, as of a few months ago when I last tried it, was reasonably accessible as long as you use tab and shift-tab to navigate with it. 


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 6/6/2020 6:37 PM, david Jennette wrote:

Hi. I’ve asked this a few years ago but I figured it’s time to ask again do to things changing. I’m wondering if Windows defender is still the most accessible antivirus software or if there are others now that work well with Jaws. Thanks.
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