Moderated what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
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Jim Rawls
Hi all, On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500 |
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Tom Behler
I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.
At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them. Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM To: blindtech@groups.io Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi all, On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500 |
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Chris Hill
It is hit or miss. You might try with the touch cursor and see
if that works better.
It downloads and installs system updates for things like bios, and drivers. It can also run system tests, which aren't important unless you are having a problem, then I wonder if you would ever get far enough for it to be able to run anyway. All else fails, get a sighted person to run it at least once on a new machine.
On 5/20/2020 12:52, Jim Rawls wrote:
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Mario
from https://www.dell.com/support/contents/article/product-support/self-support-knowledgebase/software-and-downloads/supportassist
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SupportAssist is a powerful support application that helps keep your system running at its best, proactively identifies issues, and enables you to run diagnostics and driver-update scans. Learn more https://www.dell.com/support/contents/article/product-support/self-support-knowledgebase/software-and-downloads/supportassist -------- Original Message --------
From: Chris Hill [mailto:hillco@...] To: main@jfw.groups.io Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 2:24 PM Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/? It is hit or miss. You might try with the touch cursor and see if that works better. It downloads and installs system updates for things like bios, and drivers. It can also run system tests, which aren't important unless you are having a problem, then I wonder if you would ever get far enough for it to be able to run anyway. All else fails, get a sighted person to run it at least once on a new machine. On 5/20/2020 12:52, Jim Rawls wrote: Hi all, On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500 |
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Majid Hussain
will there be any need for this application in windows 10 v2004?
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because there will be an optional page in settings to download and view optional device drivers? On 20/05/2020, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:
It is hit or miss. You might try with the touch cursor and see if that --
kind regards, Majid Hussain |
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Mich Verrier
Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.
At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them. Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Hi all, On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500 |
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Chris Hill
I’d be surprised if windows had a current driver for anything if I needed it.
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On May 20, 2020, at 18:44, Majid Hussain <mhussaincov93@...> wrote: |
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Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:
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Tom Behler
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Mike B.
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Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet. ----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it
work/? I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Mike B.
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Okay, here we go! LOL
First the keystrokes, then a note on selecting
with the Touch cursor, then a tutorial on using the Touch cursor.
Keystrokes:
table with 2 columns and 13 rows
Touch Cursor SHIFT+NUM PAD PLUS Next Object RIGHT ARROW or TAB Prior Object LEFT ARROW or SHIFT+TAB Next Object by Type DOWN ARROW Prior Object by Type UP ARROW Cycle Through Object Navigation Types PAGE UP or PAGE DOWN First Object CTRL+HOME Last Object CTRL+END Say Current Object INSERT+UP ARROW Say All with Touch Cursor INSERT+DOWN ARROW Route Touch Cursor to Focused Object INSERT+NUM PAD PLUS Text Review NUM PAD SLASH or INSERT+ENTER Advanced Navigation NUM PAD STAR table end Selecting note: Original Message
From: Carol Smith via Groups.Io Hi, I would like to know if there is a way to click on items that are spoken with the touch cursor. Carol From: Jason White via Groups.Io With the touch cursor on the desired item, press the spacebar. Jason Tutorial:
Using the Touch Cursor
Certain applications, especially many of the modern-style apps found in Windows 8, do not always work as expected with JAWS when navigating with the standard cursors such as the PC and Virtual PC cursors. Activating the new Touch Cursor enables you to use the ARROW keys on your computer's keyboard, or the controls on your braille display, to navigate through the actual objects in an application similar to using gestures on the touch screen of a tablet. Application objects include everything from menu bars, toolbars, and progress bars, to form controls, regions, links, etc. Press SHIFT+NUM PAD PLUS, or SHIFT+CAPS LOCK+SEMICOLON if using the laptop keyboard layout, to activate the Touch Cursor. To turn it off, activate one of the other cursors, like the JAWS or PC Cursor. Pressing the PC Cursor command (NUM PAD PLUS) will cause JAWS to say "Touch Cursor" and the Touch Cursor will remain active. If Tutor Messages are enabled, JAWS will also speak the message "Double tap to activate PC cursor". Press the PC Cursor command twice quickly to turn off the Touch Cursor and activate the PC Cursor. The Touch Cursor is enabled by default in certain Windows 8 applications to improve navigation. These apps include News, Weather, and Store. Whenever you move focus to one of these apps, the Touch Cursor is automatically activated. To automatically enable the Touch Cursor in another application, press INSERT+V to open Quick Settings while focused in the application where you want to use the Touch Cursor, expand the Touch Cursor Options group, and then select Automatic Activation. You must do this for every application where you want to have JAWS automatically turn on the Touch Cursor. Navigating With the Touch Cursor To move to the next or previous object on the screen, press RIGHT or LEFT ARROW. You can also use TAB or SHIFT+TAB. To move by a specific object type, press UP or DOWN ARROW. By default, the UP and DOWN ARROWS will move by regions, or by groups if you are on the Windows 8 Start Screen. To change what object type these commands move by, press PAGE UP or PAGE DOWN to cycle through the available types using the navigation rotor. For example, if you want the UP or DOWN ARROW keys to move by headings, press PAGE UP or PAGE DOWN until you hear "headings. Now, pressing UP or DOWN ARROW will move to the next or previous heading. Press CTRL+HOME to move to the first object and press CTRL+END to move to the last object. To announce the current object, press INSERT+UP ARROW. To perform a Say All, which will cause the Touch Cursor to move through the application and speak each object, press INSERT+DOWN ARROW. As you navigate using the ARROW keys, the system focus does not follow the Touch Cursor. This allows you to freely navigate through objects without changing the position of the PC Cursor or mouse pointer. Pressing SPACEBAR or ENTER on the current object will move focus to that object and perform the appropriate action. For instance, opening a menu, selecting a check box, or activating a button or link. In addition, a rectangle will be displayed around the currently selected object to visually indicate the location of the Touch cursor for sighted users. To quickly move the Touch Cursor to the object that currently has focus, press INSERT+NUM PAD PLUS, or CAPS LOCK+APOSTROPHE if using the laptop keyboard layout. JAWS will route the Touch Cursor to the currently selected object and announce it. The Touch Cursor will remain active after performing this command. To determine what object types will be announced as you navigate with the Touch Cursor, press INSERT+V to open Quick Settings, expand the Touch Cursor Options group, then move to Configure Types. This group lists all available types that can be navigated to using the Touch Cursor. Use the SPACEBAR to select or clear a type. Types that are selected are announced while types that are not selected are ignored. Note: The Configure Types option only appears in Quick Settings if the Touch Cursor is currently active when Quick Settings is opened. Navigating the Windows 8 Start Screen Previously, navigating Tiles on the new Windows 8 Start Screen was difficult to understand. Like a traditional desktop, the columns did not wrap, and because tiles can be different sizes, it was very difficult to orient yourself when moving with the PC focus. We now suggest you consider using the Touch Cursor mode to offer a more seamless and predictable way of learning the tiles and where they are located. To begin, move focus to the Windows 8 Start Screen by pressing the WINDOWS key until you hear "Start Screen." Now you can activate the Touch Cursor by pressing SHIFT+NUM PAD PLUS on a Desktop keyboard or SHIFT+CAPS LOCK+SEMICOLON on a Laptop keyboard. With the Touch Cursor on, you can use the single-finger flick up and down gestures to move between the groups, or use UP and DOWN ARROWS to simulate the gestures, even if you do not have a touch screen. Note that groups are generally not named by default, so JAWS will refer to the Group name based on whatever the first tile is in the group that gains focus. At any point, you can use either a single-finger flick right or left on a Touch Screen or use the RIGHT and LEFT ARROWS to explore all tiles from your current location. If you locate a Tile for an application you wish to launch, simply double tap the touch screen with a single finger, or just press ENTER to launch the tile you are on. Touch Cursor Navigation Quick Keys While the Touch Cursor is active, you can use Navigation Quick Keys to quickly jump to various types of objects, such as regions, headings, links, form controls, and so on. These commands are similar to the Navigation Quick Keys that are used when navigating HTML and PDF documents with the Virtual PC Cursor. By default, Touch Navigation Quick Keys are not enabled when the Touch Cursor is activated. This allows you to fully use applications that support typing in the main window. For example, the Windows 8 News app lets you type so you can quickly locate specific stories. If you would like Touch Navigation Quick keys to be enabled automatically when the Touch Cursor is activated in a specific application, press INSERT+V to open Quick Settings while focused in the application, navigate to the Touch Cursor Options group, and select Touch Quick Keys. You can also press INSERT+Z while the Touch Cursor is active to temporarily toggle Touch Navigation Quick Keys on or off. The following Navigation Quick Keys are available: Note: You can add the SHIFT Key to any of these commands to move to the previous occurrence of that element. A - Next radio button B - Next button C - Next combo box D - Next document E - Next edit field F - Next form field G - Next image H - Next heading I - Next list item K - Next link L - Next list M - Next menu O - Next tool bar P - Next pane Q - Next tab R - Next region S - Next occurrence of static text T - Next table U - Next group V - Next tree view X - Next check box Z - Next status bar Text Review Text Review allows you to read the text contained inside an element using standard reading commands. If the element at the current Touch Cursor position has text, such as a news article, pressing NUM PAD SLASH or INSERT+ENTER will activate Text Review. You can then use the ARROW keys to read the text as if you were reading a regular document. Pressing the ESC key will exit Text Review and return to Touch Cursor navigation. For example, in the News app, where the Touch Cursor is enabled by default, you could press UP or DOWN ARROW to move to the Top Stories region and then press RIGHT ARROW to move to a particular story. When you find the article you want to read, you can press INSERT+ENTER or NUM PAD SLASH to switch to Text Review so you can use the ARROW keys or the braille display to read the article. Once you are finished, press ESC to close Text Review and then use RIGHT or LEFT ARROW to select another article from the current region, or UP or DOWN ARROW to move to a different region. By default, JAWS will play a sound when you enter or exit Text Review mode. If you would rather have JAWS speak a message, press INSERT+V to open Quick Settings, expand the Touch Cursor Options group, and clear the Use Sounds option. Advanced Navigation For advanced users, specifically those who may be involved with developing applications, Advanced Navigation provides more detail about all objects in the UIA (User Interface UAutomation) structure. With the standard Touch Cursor, you can only navigate to objects that are visible on the screen in the current application. In Advanced Navigation, the Touch Cursor traverses all UIA objects in a hierarchical manner. All Objects, whether visible or not, can be traversed in Advanced Navigation. To enable Advanced Navigation, press NUM PAD STAR, or CAPS LOCK+A if using the laptop keyboard layout, while the Touch Cursor is active. Once active, use the LEFT or RIGHT ARROW keys to move to the previous or next sibling object and the UP or DOWN ARROW keys to move to the parrent object or the first child object. To view more Advanced Navigation commands, press INSERT+H while this mode is active. Press NUM PAD STAR once more to turn off Advanced Navigation and return to the standard Touch Cursor. Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet. ----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it
work/? No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Patrick Murphy <murphy.patrick42@...>
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Tom Behler
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Patrick Murphy <murphy.patrick42@...>
Hi Tom,
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc. i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can. you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine. if you do this however, be careful!!! i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020. when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well. after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery. only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly. sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order. i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
regards,
pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
Hi Tom,
I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!” Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10. You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020. Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc. Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi Tom,
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc. i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can. you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine. if you do this however, be careful!!! i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020. when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well. after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery. only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly. sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order. i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
regards,
pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
|
|
|
|
Patrick Murphy <murphy.patrick42@...>
Hi Tom/Sieghard,
Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message. I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018. I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2. When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible. I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same. “we don’t know what is wrong” or “freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”. I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well. Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported. Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs. However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation. Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them. You also mentioned the various chrome browsers. In case it is of use to anyone: Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome. However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not. If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box. Nice!!!. The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine. Don’t depend on it. It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not. Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020. Ups!!! Can’t do that!!! I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet. I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone. Regards,
pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 15:58 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi Tom,
I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!” Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10. You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020. Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc. Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc. i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can. you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine. if you do this however, be careful!!! i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020. when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well. after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery. only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly. sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order. i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
regards,
pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
|
|
|
|
Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
Hi Patrick,
The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary. Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.
I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:45 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi Tom/Sieghard,
Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message. I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018. I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2. When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible. I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same. “we don’t know what is wrong” or “freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”. I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well. Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported. Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs. However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation. Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them. You also mentioned the various chrome browsers. In case it is of use to anyone: Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome. However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not. If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box. Nice!!!. The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine. Don’t depend on it. It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not. Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020. Ups!!! Can’t do that!!! I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet. I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone. Regards,
pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Hi Tom,
I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!” Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10. You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020. Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc. Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc. i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can. you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine. if you do this however, be careful!!! i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020. when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well. after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery. only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly. sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order. i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
regards,
pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
|
|
|
|
Patrick Murphy <murphy.patrick42@...>
Hi Sieghard,
Yes, it is the new chrome version of edge that I am using with jaws 2018. If you could find out what needed to be disabled, that would be great, as I cannot use jaws 2020. I did some research, and from what I have read, edge is the most likely to save on your battery. The only drawback I can find with it, and google chrome, is that there is no way to bypass the “this is not a secure site” warning. I have a server on my network that I know is ok, but because of the certificate, I cannot access its web interface. Brave does allow for it, but it seems to be eating up my battery. Don’t know why.
Regards, pat Sen From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 17:02 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi Patrick,
The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary. Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.
I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom/Sieghard,
Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message. I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018. I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2. When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible. I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same. “we don’t know what is wrong” or “freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”. I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well. Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported. Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs. However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation. Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them. You also mentioned the various chrome browsers. In case it is of use to anyone: Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome. However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not. If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box. Nice!!!. The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine. Don’t depend on it. It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not. Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020. Ups!!! Can’t do that!!! I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet. I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone. Regards,
pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Hi Tom,
I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!” Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10. You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020. Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc. Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc. i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can. you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine. if you do this however, be careful!!! i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020. when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well. after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery. only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly. sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order. i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
regards,
pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
Just looked it up, make sure you disable “Native UI automation” in the experimental flags menu:
1. Open Edge and go to the address bar with Alt + D 2. Type edge://flags and press enter 3. Search for “Native UI Automation” or go through the list and find it (it’s a long list) 4. Check to see if it’s disabled, if it is not disable it, if it is already disabled I am not sure why you are still having issues.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:09 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Hi Sieghard,
Yes, it is the new chrome version of edge that I am using with jaws 2018. If you could find out what needed to be disabled, that would be great, as I cannot use jaws 2020. I did some research, and from what I have read, edge is the most likely to save on your battery. The only drawback I can find with it, and google chrome, is that there is no way to bypass the “this is not a secure site” warning. I have a server on my network that I know is ok, but because of the certificate, I cannot access its web interface. Brave does allow for it, but it seems to be eating up my battery. Don’t know why.
Regards, pat Sen From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Hi Patrick,
The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary. Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.
I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom/Sieghard,
Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message. I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018. I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2. When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible. I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same. “we don’t know what is wrong” or “freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”. I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well. Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported. Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs. However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation. Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them. You also mentioned the various chrome browsers. In case it is of use to anyone: Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome. However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not. If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box. Nice!!!. The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine. Don’t depend on it. It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not. Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020. Ups!!! Can’t do that!!! I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet. I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone. Regards,
pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Hi Tom,
I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!” Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10. You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020. Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc. Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.
Best regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc. i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can. you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine. if you do this however, be careful!!! i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020. when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well. after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery. only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly. sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order. i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
regards,
pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Ok, Pat.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Hi Tom,
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine. Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable. In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version. If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother. If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me. When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button. Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating. It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!! Don’t get me started on that!!! Anyway, to get back to this: Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often. If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background. Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock. Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers. I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you. Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly. There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well. If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery. I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can. 2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
Regards, Pat
From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tom Behler
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mike B
Tom,
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Behler Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Tom Behler
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.
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