Topics

moderated Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit


Tom Behler
 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


 

Tom,

           There are a number of options.   I am going to qualify what follows with:  I am only interested in accessibility with regard to taking the backup, not doing the recovery.  I have been in a long recent discussion about this and there is nothing short of "extreme geek measures" I am not willing to take, and I doubt most would be able to take, to make a recovery process accessible.  Screen readers run under operating systems, and during a recovery you do not actually have a full-blown Windows instance running.  That's what you're trying to recover.  I fully expect that if recovery is necessary a sighted assistant will be as well.  If anyone can present a backup and recovery suite that is fully accessible, on both ends, even if it's just for taking a system image and later recovering it, I'm all ears.  So far no one has.

            Macrium Reflect Free is not 100% accessible, but it is entirely accessible for setting up a system image recovery then using that setup on-demand to take the actual image.  For myself, I always do a full system image, as those are the fastest to recover from.  You need to take (as you said you do) user data backups between your full system image backups if you're generating enough new files that you'd want to commit hara-kiri were you to lose them and/or have to do the work to re-create them.

Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Glenn / Lenny
 


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


David Griffith
 

I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith


On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:57 PM, David Griffith wrote:
Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible.
Every time I hear this proviso I want to scream.  Of course, every package I could recommend would have this be true, but one is virtually never, ever restoring a system image from under a running Windows instance unless you have what I call "an experimental machine" where you want to be able to install and test all sorts of new software but then want to be able to restore it back to its baseline state.

Most recoveries are due to catastrophic failure of some sort, and most often main drive failure (whether HDD or SSD), and don't occur under a running Windows instance.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Glenn / Lenny
 


I should add that what I'm using right now was unzipped from a backup when I got a new HD.
I have a clean fresh install of my system and then I booted to a talking Win PE  and used 7Zip to make a zip copy of everything.
7Zip is very good at digging down into sub folders to archive everything.
And like I mentioned before, deleting those two files will help a lot.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith


On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello.

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

Tom Behler

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Steve Matzura
 

Terabyte Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite is 100% accessible beginning to end, including the recovery disk. There's an option to set in an INI file when building the recovery disk that will automatically start Narrator when said disk is booted. Works a treat, as they say. Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com


On 5/3/2020 12:57 PM, David Griffith wrote:
I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith


On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer.
The price is now down to under $40.  Since they give you a 30-day free trial, there's absolutely nothing to lose if you want to try it out.  I'd definitely suggest doing a full system image backup, and then restore, on a non-primary machine if you have a second machine around, just to have had the end to end experience.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


John Covici
 

I use the paid version of this product and was able to back up all my
internal drives to an external drive. I do it every night using
incremental backups, so (and I have had this happen) if Jaws goes
south on me, I used the recovery media to get my system back. I had
to use Aira in the recovery step, but it did work!! If the system
still works you can do all the recover parameters and when you boot
the recovery cd, it will do things and eventually reboot all by
itself. I am glad I have Aira!

On Sun, 03 May 2020 12:41:23 -0400,
Brian Vogel wrote:

[1 <text/plain; utf-8 (quoted-printable)>]
Tom,

There are a number of options.   I am going to qualify what follows with:  I am only interested in accessibility with regard to taking the backup, not doing the recovery.  I have been in a long recent discussion about this and there is nothing short of "extreme geek measures" I am not willing to take, and I doubt most would be able to take, to make a recovery process accessible.  Screen readers run under operating systems, and during a recovery you do not actually have a full-blown Windows instance running.  That's what you're trying to recover.  I fully expect that if recovery is necessary a sighted assistant will be as well.  If anyone can present a backup and recovery suite that is fully accessible, on both ends, even if it's just for taking a system image and later recovering it, I'm all ears.  So far no one has.

Macrium Reflect Free is not 100% accessible, but it is entirely accessible for setting up a system image recovery then using that setup on-demand to take the actual image.  For myself, I always do a full system image, as those are the fastest to recover from.  You need to take (as you said you do) user data backups between your full system image backups if you're generating enough new files that you'd want to commit hara-kiri were you to lose them and/or have to do the work to re-create them.

*Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader* ( https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1MaK3Pe-eI8P3dRJOS2T9ulY3ykmjKlKD )

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
~ Lawrence Krauss



[2 <text/html; utf-8 (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:44 PM, John Covici wrote:
I had to use Aira in the recovery step, but it did work!!
And what, precisely is Aira?   Sighted assistance.

That's an excellent variant, but it is still sighted assistance.  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Tom Behler
 

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions regarding accessible backup image software.

 

I am not an advanced assistive technology computer user, so I need to be careful in terms of what I choose to do here.

 

But, these suggestions have given me a lot to consider, and I’m saving them for future reference.

 

I will continue to read additional contributions to this thread with interest, and I hope they help others as well.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer.

The price is now down to under $40.  Since they give you a 30-day free trial, there's absolutely nothing to lose if you want to try it out.  I'd definitely suggest doing a full system image backup, and then restore, on a non-primary machine if you have a second machine around, just to have had the end to end experience.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Tom Behler
 

Brian:

 

What program are you referring to here?

 

There’s no e-mail history to refer to in relation to your reply, and things are getting confusing.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer.

The price is now down to under $40.  Since they give you a 30-day free trial, there's absolutely nothing to lose if you want to try it out.  I'd definitely suggest doing a full system image backup, and then restore, on a non-primary machine if you have a second machine around, just to have had the end to end experience.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Tom Behler
 

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Marie
 

How much space do you need to store the full system backup? I know this depends on what you have on your disk but just for example, say you are using just under 500GB.
 
Marie
 

From: David Griffith
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit
 
I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith
 

On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit
 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Glenn / Lenny
 


Hi Tom,
Win PE is made by Microsoft, the PE stands for Preinstallation Environment.
That is what people are booting up to on a Windows installation disk for setting up Windows for the first time, or to boot up to for system repairs.
Microsoft offers it for people to download and use by itself and to customize.
A Blind guy named Carlos, who passed away some time back, made one with audio drivers and NVDA on boot-up and lots of utilities.
So when you boot up, you are on a desktop environment, only it is not your windows, WinPE is loaded into your computer's RAM, and your C-Drive is your system, but it is just there, as if you had pulled your hard drive and plugged it in as a second drive.
So you have full access to all the drive and system files.
You can get on-line and listen to audio in the Win PE environment, or you can do system repairs, or copy your hard drive.
You aren't running your windows, so there is no issue of windows squawking about this or that file is in use.
It has 7Zip on it,so you can use that to zip up your HD, or use one of the image utilities on the CD.
It doesn't have eMail installed, but other than that, and the fact that changes won't be on it when you reboot it, it is like free windows.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Tom Behler
 

Thanks, Glenn.

 

Looking back to the beginning of this thread, I realize I should have been clearer about the fact that I’m using Windows 10 here on my main computer.

 

I suspect Windows 10 has a .zip utility in it, just like 7.zip for Windows 7?

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:57 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hi Tom,

Win PE is made by Microsoft, the PE stands for Preinstallation Environment.

That is what people are booting up to on a Windows installation disk for setting up Windows for the first time, or to boot up to for system repairs.

Microsoft offers it for people to download and use by itself and to customize.

A Blind guy named Carlos, who passed away some time back, made one with audio drivers and NVDA on boot-up and lots of utilities.

So when you boot up, you are on a desktop environment, only it is not your windows, WinPE is loaded into your computer's RAM, and your C-Drive is your system, but it is just there, as if you had pulled your hard drive and plugged it in as a second drive.

So you have full access to all the drive and system files.

You can get on-line and listen to audio in the Win PE environment, or you can do system repairs, or copy your hard drive.

You aren't running your windows, so there is no issue of windows squawking about this or that file is in use.

It has 7Zip on it,so you can use that to zip up your HD, or use one of the image utilities on the CD.

It doesn't have eMail installed, but other than that, and the fact that changes won't be on it when you reboot it, it is like free windows.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Tom Behler wrote:

 

What program are you referring to here?

The one that Steve Matzura made reference to, and my reply quotes a part of that message:  Terabyte Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite http://www.terabyteunlimited.com

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


netbat66
 

if you have some spare external drives look at cloneing software instead of imageing software.
i use casper cloneing software. it makes a full clone backup to another drive. and because you can boot from the backup drive to restore the c drive i have full speech access while doing a reclone back to the c drive. it can also wipe the drive if the boot record is damaged and do the full recovery with a new boot record from the backup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 9:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Tom,

There are a number of options. I am going to qualify what follows with: I am only interested in accessibility with regard to taking the backup, not doing the recovery. I have been in a long recent discussion about this and there is nothing short of "extreme geek measures" I am not willing to take, and I doubt most would be able to take, to make a recovery process accessible. Screen readers run under operating systems, and during a recovery you do not actually have a full-blown Windows instance running. That's what you're trying to recover. I fully expect that if recovery is necessary a sighted assistant will be as well. If anyone can present a backup and recovery suite that is fully accessible, on both ends, even if it's just for taking a system image and later recovering it, I'm all ears. So far no one has.

Macrium Reflect Free is not 100% accessible, but it is entirely accessible for setting up a system image recovery then using that setup on-demand to take the actual image. For myself, I always do a full system image, as those are the fastest to recover from. You need to take (as you said you do) user data backups between your full system image backups if you're generating enough new files that you'd want to commit hara-kiri were you to lose them and/or have to do the work to re-create them.



Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363


The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
~ Lawrence Krauss


Glenn / Lenny
 


Windows 10 does, but you can't zip your system while it is running.
And it doesn't matter if win PE is not windows 10, if you are in win PE you can be using Windows XP and it can copy any NTFS or FAT32 file system.
The key thing is that you need to not be running your own operating system to copy all the files with 7Zip, or any zip program, because it has to copy system files that are in use.
The imaging software that others have posted, know how to unload and reload critical system files during a backup.
That is why those utilities have always been necessary for backups, unless you can access your HD without booting up, and that is what Win PE was made for by Microsoft, or one can do this in Linux too, but Win PE offers the comfortable Windows environment.
Glenn
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Thanks, Glenn.

 

Looking back to the beginning of this thread, I realize I should have been clearer about the fact that I’m using Windows 10 here on my main computer.

 

I suspect Windows 10 has a .zip utility in it, just like 7.zip for Windows 7?

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:57 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hi Tom,

Win PE is made by Microsoft, the PE stands for Preinstallation Environment.

That is what people are booting up to on a Windows installation disk for setting up Windows for the first time, or to boot up to for system repairs.

Microsoft offers it for people to download and use by itself and to customize.

A Blind guy named Carlos, who passed away some time back, made one with audio drivers and NVDA on boot-up and lots of utilities.

So when you boot up, you are on a desktop environment, only it is not your windows, WinPE is loaded into your computer's RAM, and your C-Drive is your system, but it is just there, as if you had pulled your hard drive and plugged it in as a second drive.

So you have full access to all the drive and system files.

You can get on-line and listen to audio in the Win PE environment, or you can do system repairs, or copy your hard drive.

You aren't running your windows, so there is no issue of windows squawking about this or that file is in use.

It has 7Zip on it,so you can use that to zip up your HD, or use one of the image utilities on the CD.

It doesn't have eMail installed, but other than that, and the fact that changes won't be on it when you reboot it, it is like free windows.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


 

I would suggest those really interested in what's being discussed also look at the following two recent topics on other groups:

https://win10.groups.io/g/win10/topic/73315213

Windows PE ISO file with NVDA installed
, specifically message, https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/73144, if you're looking to source versions of WinPE with NVDA built in.  The EXE files were created using Rufus based on what the original poster said to me when I asked.

For myself, I would not rely on any ZIP utility as my primary system image backup.  There is a reason that system image backup and recovery utilities, and many of them, exist to make the process easier and far more foolproof.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss