Topics

moderated How to close documents in JAWS 2020


Shirley Tracy
 

Hi,

 

I finally updated to JAWS 2020. I’m running Windows 10 and now have chosen to purchase the “HOME eddition.” Why can’t I close documents and even some applications? I have to get into the menus and actually tab to the “close” button. Alt F4 doesn’t work for me any more. Is this a change I didn’t read or hear about?

 

Please forgive me if you have discussed this topic before, but I’m new with the upgrade and really want to know what to do. Another way to close, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 


Chris Hill
 

Jaws Is not likely your trouble.  It has not changed.  Laptops and some fancy keyboards can get into a mode where the function keys stop doing their regular functions and become media control keys.  Use insert+1 (I think) to get into jaws key describer and try hitting the function keys.  They should speak as function keys.  If they don’t your keyboard has gotten into the wrong mode.  Some have key combinations to switch mode, my dell gaming laptop uses fn+escape for this function.



On Dec 21, 2019, at 12:33, Shirley Tracy <shirleytracy16@...> wrote:



Hi,

 

I finally updated to JAWS 2020. I’m running Windows 10 and now have chosen to purchase the “HOME eddition.” Why can’t I close documents and even some applications? I have to get into the menus and actually tab to the “close” button. Alt F4 doesn’t work for me any more. Is this a change I didn’t read or hear about?

 

Please forgive me if you have discussed this topic before, but I’m new with the upgrade and really want to know what to do. Another way to close, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 


Dan Longmore
 

No, as others have stated , it sounds like a keyboard Function key issue.  I have Home, JAWS 2020 and Win 10 and can use ALT F4 .

 

Merry Christmas,

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shirley Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

Hi,

 

I finally updated to JAWS 2020. I’m running Windows 10 and now have chosen to purchase the “HOME eddition.” Why can’t I close documents and even some applications? I have to get into the menus and actually tab to the “close” button. Alt F4 doesn’t work for me any more. Is this a change I didn’t read or hear about?

 

Please forgive me if you have discussed this topic before, but I’m new with the upgrade and really want to know what to do. Another way to close, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 


 

And, for the record, ALT+F4 is a Windows keyboard shortcut, completely unrelated to the screen reader in use (or not in use), so unless someone did something to do a custom remapping, which is not easy, it's not likely to be the screen reader at the root of the problem.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


David Goldfield
 

Shirley,

Once in a while I'll get into a situation where a modifier key, such as alt or control, temporarily won't function as it should. Sometimes, you can remedy this by pressing each of the offending modifiers once or twice. As an example, if your alt key seems not to work press the left alt key once or twice, then press the right alt key once or twice and see if the key works normally again.

You could also try unloading and then restarting JAWS by first pressing insert-F4 to unload JAWS and then restarting it by whatever method you prefer, such as using a shortcut key (which is not assigned, by default.) Worse case scenario: restart Windows and see if that gets the offending key to behave again. With Windows 10, press Windows-X for the quick links menu, U for Shut Down and then R for restart.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 12/21/2019 2:24 PM, Dan Longmore wrote:

No, as others have stated , it sounds like a keyboard Function key issue.  I have Home, JAWS 2020 and Win 10 and can use ALT F4 .

 

Merry Christmas,

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shirley Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

Hi,

 

I finally updated to JAWS 2020. I’m running Windows 10 and now have chosen to purchase the “HOME eddition.” Why can’t I close documents and even some applications? I have to get into the menus and actually tab to the “close” button. Alt F4 doesn’t work for me any more. Is this a change I didn’t read or hear about?

 

Please forgive me if you have discussed this topic before, but I’m new with the upgrade and really want to know what to do. Another way to close, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 


Richard Turner
 

I had not paid much attention to this thread but since it was continuing I read through all the posts.

 

To close a document in Windows, you can use either Control+w or control+f4.  Both keystrokes close the current window/document.

 

Alt+f4 exits a program which of course will also close a document, but it actually exits the program.

 

So, in Word, if you want to just close a document and keep word open, use control+w or control+f4.

 

Like Brian and others have said; if your function keys are not behaving, that isn’t Jaws, especially if you just upgraded to Jaws 2020.

 

HTH,

 

 

Richard

 

🖖 Live long and prosper

 

 

Check out my web site at: www.turner42.com

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

And, for the record, ALT+F4 is a Windows keyboard shortcut, completely unrelated to the screen reader in use (or not in use), so unless someone did something to do a custom remapping, which is not easy, it's not likely to be the screen reader at the root of the problem.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


 

And a big, "Oops, my bad!," on the ALT+F4 bit, which does, as Richard said, close a program.

But the principle of these being Windows keyboard shortcuts, unrelated to JAWS or any other screen reader, still stands.  Something else is afoot here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Richard Turner
 

Yes, this is certainly not a Jaws issue at all.

I think Freedom Scientific sets people up for confusion when they do things like rename keys.

The insert key is the insert key; it just so happens that insert plus a variety of keys are used as Jaws commands, but it is still the insert key.

NVDA does the same, in my opinion, stupid thing by calling the same key the NVDA key.

 

 

 

Richard

 

🖖 Live long and prosper

 

 

Check out my web site at: www.turner42.com

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 12:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

And a big, "Oops, my bad!," on the ALT+F4 bit, which does, as Richard said, close a program.

But the principle of these being Windows keyboard shortcuts, unrelated to JAWS or any other screen reader, still stands.  Something else is afoot here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


 

I get why JAWS and NVDA both refer to their primary control key as the JAWS and NVDA key, respectively.  What that key is depends entirely on the keyboard layout you are using, and being able to write documentation such that it's JAWS+Modifier or NVDA+Modifier is far easier than saying INSERT or CAPS LOCK plus modifier all over the place.

I've also come to expect that most screen reader users are aware of having two keyboard layout options even if they've only ever used one of the two.  I haven't had a laptop without a number pad in ages, so even on laptops I use desktop keyboard layout, where INSERT is the JAWS or NVDA key, respectively.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Barbara <batterseye@...>
 

Although I no longer have the keyboard which gave me grief, I had a problem with the function keys when I first got the keyboard I previously had.  As many of you are likely aware, there can be multiple settings for the function keys.  Use of the FN or some other key will toggle among the group of options.  I had to have my keyboard  locked in to the basic use or my keyboard software would go to other settings.  It drove me nuts!  Smile.  Once my computer man locked it in the software, all worked as it should.  I am suggesting that something similar may of accidently got triggered.  If this has not been an issue in the past, rebooting may resolve it.  Otherwise a more in depth look may be needed.

 

Barbara

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

And, for the record, ALT+F4 is a Windows keyboard shortcut, completely unrelated to the screen reader in use (or not in use), so unless someone did something to do a custom remapping, which is not easy, it's not likely to be the screen reader at the root of the problem.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Mario
 

I don't get it. for example, if you want to summon the JAWS window and
you're told to press the modifier with the j, the same is achieved by
pressing the insert with j. I agree with Richard. it's just plain
stupid. an insert key is an insert key no matter what it's called.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:@britechguy]
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2019, 3:29 PM
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020
I get why JAWS and NVDA both refer to their primary control key as the
JAWS and NVDA key, respectively.  What that key is depends entirely on
the keyboard layout you are using, and being able to write documentation
such that it's JAWS+Modifier or NVDA+Modifier is far easier than saying
INSERT or CAPS LOCK plus modifier all over the place.

I've also come to expect that most screen reader users are aware of
having two keyboard layout options even if they've only ever used one of
the two.  I haven't had a laptop without a number pad in ages, so even
on laptops I use desktop keyboard layout, where INSERT is the JAWS or
NVDA key, respectively.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*/Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's
beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting
them./*

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Dan Longmore
 

I just use the keyboard without the downloadable software.  I know this is not an option for many but if you just need basics all keyboards are plug and play.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barbara
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 3:52 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

Although I no longer have the keyboard which gave me grief, I had a problem with the function keys when I first got the keyboard I previously had.  As many of you are likely aware, there can be multiple settings for the function keys.  Use of the FN or some other key will toggle among the group of options.  I had to have my keyboard  locked in to the basic use or my keyboard software would go to other settings.  It drove me nuts!  Smile.  Once my computer man locked it in the software, all worked as it should.  I am suggesting that something similar may of accidently got triggered.  If this has not been an issue in the past, rebooting may resolve it.  Otherwise a more in depth look may be needed.

 

Barbara

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

And, for the record, ALT+F4 is a Windows keyboard shortcut, completely unrelated to the screen reader in use (or not in use), so unless someone did something to do a custom remapping, which is not easy, it's not likely to be the screen reader at the root of the problem.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Shirley Tracy
 

Thank you all for your responses. You made me rethink my problem, and although I have the same desktop and same keyboard that I have been using, I have to agree that the problem has to be the keyboard. At least I know in what direction I should look now.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 

From: Shirley Tracy via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

Hi,

 

I finally updated to JAWS 2020. I’m running Windows 10 and now have chosen to purchase the “HOME eddition.” Why can’t I close documents and even some applications? I have to get into the menus and actually tab to the “close” button. Alt F4 doesn’t work for me any more. Is this a change I didn’t read or hear about?

 

Please forgive me if you have discussed this topic before, but I’m new with the upgrade and really want to know what to do. Another way to close, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 

 


Shirley Tracy
 

David,

 

Your trick works. I’m pretty sure the alt was acting goofy and not JAWS. Once, quite a while ago, I had a similar problem with the control key. By pressing each of the control keys separately, control behaved as it should once again.

I had forgotten all about that.

 

Shirley Tracy

 

From: David Goldfield
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 2:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

Shirley,

Once in a while I'll get into a situation where a modifier key, such as alt or control, temporarily won't function as it should. Sometimes, you can remedy this by pressing each of the offending modifiers once or twice. As an example, if your alt key seems not to work press the left alt key once or twice, then press the right alt key once or twice and see if the key works normally again.

You could also try unloading and then restarting JAWS by first pressing insert-F4 to unload JAWS and then restarting it by whatever method you prefer, such as using a shortcut key (which is not assigned, by default.) Worse case scenario: restart Windows and see if that gets the offending key to behave again. With Windows 10, press Windows-X for the quick links menu, U for Shut Down and then R for restart.

 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 12/21/2019 2:24 PM, Dan Longmore wrote:

No, as others have stated , it sounds like a keyboard Function key issue.  I have Home, JAWS 2020 and Win 10 and can use ALT F4 .

 

Merry Christmas,

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shirley Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 1:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

Hi,

 

I finally updated to JAWS 2020. I’m running Windows 10 and now have chosen to purchase the “HOME eddition.” Why can’t I close documents and even some applications? I have to get into the menus and actually tab to the “close” button. Alt F4 doesn’t work for me any more. Is this a change I didn’t read or hear about?

 

Please forgive me if you have discussed this topic before, but I’m new with the upgrade and really want to know what to do. Another way to close, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Shirley Tracy

 

 


David Goldfield
 

Richard,

The issue is that the special screen reader modifier key, such as what is called the JAWS key, is not necessarily mapped to the insert key. Some users, particularly those without a numeric keypad, may choose to have the Caps Lock key assigned as their special modifier key. In that instance, the documentation would be both wrong and potentially confusing if it made references to using the insert key since that key could, potentially, be disabled.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 12/21/2019 3:19 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Yes, this is certainly not a Jaws issue at all.

I think Freedom Scientific sets people up for confusion when they do things like rename keys.

The insert key is the insert key; it just so happens that insert plus a variety of keys are used as Jaws commands, but it is still the insert key.

NVDA does the same, in my opinion, stupid thing by calling the same key the NVDA key.

 

 

 

Richard

 

🖖 Live long and prosper

 

 

Check out my web site at: www.turner42.com

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 12:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

 

And a big, "Oops, my bad!," on the ALT+F4 bit, which does, as Richard said, close a program.

But the principle of these being Windows keyboard shortcuts, unrelated to JAWS or any other screen reader, still stands.  Something else is afoot here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Mario
 

David, I am not Richard but I totally agree with him that it is just
stupid to press a "modifier" key which suppose to be less confusing than
saying to press the insert key. but in response to your explaination, if
the user is using a laptop and the modifier key is the caps lock, and
he/she presses modifier+j to summon the JAWS window, would pressing the
insert+j not do the same? of course it would. just because FS names the
modifier key a modifier key does not change the function of that key. it
still performs as if the insert key was pressed. I think it is more
confusing especially to a new user who is starting to use a screen
reader to use a "modifier" key for commands that use the insert function
instead of using the insert key, as if the modifier key is performing a
special function because a screen reader is being used.

-------- Original Message --------
From: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2019, 7:10 AM
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020
Richard,

The issue is that the special screen reader modifier key, such as what
is called the JAWS key, is not necessarily mapped to the insert key.
Some users, particularly those without a numeric keypad, may choose to
have the Caps Lock key assigned as their special modifier key. In that
instance, the documentation would be both wrong and potentially
confusing if it made references to using the insert key since that key
could, potentially, be disabled.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 12/21/2019 3:19 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Yes, this is certainly not a Jaws issue at all.

I think Freedom Scientific sets people up for confusion when they do
things like rename keys.

The insert key is the insert key; it just so happens that insert plus
a variety of keys are used as Jaws commands, but it is still the
insert key.

NVDA does the same, in my opinion, stupid thing by calling the same
key the NVDA key.

Richard

🖖 Live long and prosper

Check out my web site at: www.turner42.com
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turner42.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1186c423fce64b99cf3408d786532706%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637125563995422039&sdata=BYy2Xtm1zTm%2ByPn%2Bnl7YkxCzEuyqhSnO9SqPwH88FN0%3D&reserved=0>

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 12:08 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

And a big, "Oops, my bad!," on the ALT+F4 bit, which does, as Richard
said, close a program.

But the principle of these being Windows keyboard shortcuts, unrelated
to JAWS or any other screen reader, still stands.  Something else is
afoot here.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/*Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's
beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or
accepting them.*/

        ~ Joshua Liebman


Richard Turner
 

And, FS is not consistent.
FS calls the key that you press to hear one word, or press twice quickly to spell that word, numpad-5.
Even though with the numlock off, it isn't a 5.

I hear beginning students being confused by this BS all the time.

So, let's just say we will agree to disagree. I'm sure no one is going to change their mind about this, so maybe this could be the end.



Richard

🖖 Live long and prosper


Check out my web site at: www.turner42.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 7:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

David, I am not Richard but I totally agree with him that it is just stupid to press a "modifier" key which suppose to be less confusing than saying to press the insert key. but in response to your explaination, if the user is using a laptop and the modifier key is the caps lock, and he/she presses modifier+j to summon the JAWS window, would pressing the
insert+j not do the same? of course it would. just because FS names the
modifier key a modifier key does not change the function of that key. it still performs as if the insert key was pressed. I think it is more confusing especially to a new user who is starting to use a screen reader to use a "modifier" key for commands that use the insert function instead of using the insert key, as if the modifier key is performing a special function because a screen reader is being used.

-------- Original Message --------
From: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2019, 7:10 AM
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020 Richard,

The issue is that the special screen reader modifier key, such as what is called the JAWS key, is not necessarily mapped to the insert key.
Some users, particularly those without a numeric keypad, may choose to have the Caps Lock key assigned as their special modifier key. In that instance, the documentation would be both wrong and potentially confusing if it made references to using the insert key since that key could, potentially, be disabled.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=WWW.DavidGoldfield.org&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C72d05d68614042f97f5e08d786f3e373%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637126254351424015&amp;sdata=%2Fgw6HN3pcX6hga40jZ6p1w%2FNiiGwenUttvhdW9saqGE%3D&amp;reserved=0

On 12/21/2019 3:19 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Yes, this is certainly not a Jaws issue at all.

I think Freedom Scientific sets people up for confusion when they do things like rename keys.

The insert key is the insert key; it just so happens that insert plus a variety of keys are used as Jaws commands, but it is still the insert key.

NVDA does the same, in my opinion, stupid thing by calling the same key the NVDA key.

Richard

🖖 Live long and prosper

Check out my web site at: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.turner42.com&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C72d05d68614042f97f5e08d786f3e373%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637126254351424015&amp;sdata=kUFXhJDCuW7ePPG29pEMj7ILFLGo%2BTMZodbu61pXccU%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turner42.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C72d05d68614042f97f5e08d786f3e373%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637126254351424015&amp;sdata=tJq%2BP8C5A5SeXMBu%2Bf%2BK7sPmTivNOkGBpEGKrk03jOs%3D&amp;reserved=0>

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 12:08 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

And a big, "Oops, my bad!," on the ALT+F4 bit, which does, as Richard said, close a program.

But the principle of these being Windows keyboard shortcuts, unrelated to JAWS or any other screen reader, still stands.  Something else is afoot here.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/*Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.*/

        ~ Joshua Liebman


JM Casey
 

Hm, I admittedly have been using JAWS since 1999, but FS's way seems right to me -- a "modifier" just means that you hold down that key and press with other keys to perform a function that the latter keys would not normally perform. In windows, control, alt, shift, etc, are all modifiers. Neither insert or caps lock is normally a modifier; they are only so because of a screen-reader. Why would they say "insert" only, when not everyone uses the insert key? Even some users prefer to keep their num lock on so they can use it to type numbers very quickly, in which case, that key becomes a 0. They use the term "modifier" or "jaws key", precisely because it's not always the same key. That seems less confusing than referring to a key that may not be in use!

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: December 22, 2019 10:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

David, I am not Richard but I totally agree with him that it is just stupid to press a "modifier" key which suppose to be less confusing than saying to press the insert key. but in response to your explaination, if the user is using a laptop and the modifier key is the caps lock, and he/she presses modifier+j to summon the JAWS window, would pressing the
insert+j not do the same? of course it would. just because FS names the
modifier key a modifier key does not change the function of that key. it still performs as if the insert key was pressed. I think it is more confusing especially to a new user who is starting to use a screen reader to use a "modifier" key for commands that use the insert function instead of using the insert key, as if the modifier key is performing a special function because a screen reader is being used.

-------- Original Message --------
From: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, December 22, 2019, 7:10 AM
Subject: How to close documents in JAWS 2020 Richard,

The issue is that the special screen reader modifier key, such as what is called the JAWS key, is not necessarily mapped to the insert key.
Some users, particularly those without a numeric keypad, may choose to have the Caps Lock key assigned as their special modifier key. In that instance, the documentation would be both wrong and potentially confusing if it made references to using the insert key since that key could, potentially, be disabled.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 12/21/2019 3:19 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Yes, this is certainly not a Jaws issue at all.

I think Freedom Scientific sets people up for confusion when they do things like rename keys.

The insert key is the insert key; it just so happens that insert plus a variety of keys are used as Jaws commands, but it is still the insert key.

NVDA does the same, in my opinion, stupid thing by calling the same key the NVDA key.

Richard

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*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 12:08 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: How to close documents in JAWS 2020

And a big, "Oops, my bad!," on the ALT+F4 bit, which does, as Richard said, close a program.

But the principle of these being Windows keyboard shortcuts, unrelated to JAWS or any other screen reader, still stands. Something else is afoot here.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/*Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.*/

~ Joshua Liebman