The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.


Tim Ford
 

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 


Mike B. <mb69mach1@...>
 

Hi Tim,
 
Right on!  You  tell them!  I get damn tired of their tech support people telling me that I should run J18 when I prefer J16, & when I tell them, since I've paid for all their damn versions, & I'll run the whatever the hell version that works best for me, & since I'm calling about the version I'm running, & not wanting to run what version they want me to run, why the hell can't you help with the version I'm running instead of claiming that problem was fixed in a newer version, when it wasn't!  LOL  LOL 
Take care.
Mike
Sent from my, iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ford
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:53 PM
Subject: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 


Feliciano G
 

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 


James Homuth
 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  
On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Tim Ford
 

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


James Homuth
 

To be fair, Microsoft has done exactly the same thing with windows for ages. You install Windows 7 Ultimate from the exact same media as you install Windows 7 home from. The difference is all in the product key. Give it a different product key, the installer turns on the features that key unlocks. This is why you don't need to wipe your system if you're upgrading from home to pro or ultimate. windows 10 very probably works in exactly the same way. I've never been a fan of JFW's licensing system, particularly since they've gotten away from the ability to give back authorization keys you're not using (that's another rant for another thread), but it could always be a lot worse. You pay for a new major version of windows when it comes out, but those usually only come out every couple years - unless MS puts out a complete flop, but come on that never happens. JFW releases a major version of all its software at least once per year, and I get the impression - again, like Microsoft, drops support for previous versions shortly after. Imagine having to pay JFW prices annually?
 
Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. we've all given FS/HJ/VFO enough money over the years we've probably earned a long-term support license. HJ had years to do it and didn't. FS had years to do it and didn't. given recent and not-so-recent history, I don't see VFO doing it. I'd love to be wrong, but until I am, I'll just be thankful they're not trying to completely immitate Microsoft. In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on the current state of Narrator.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: May-17-17 3:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


 

Hi,

Windows 10 installation and release: yes, the installation media contains retail images of various Windows 10 editions, organized into .wim files (how .wim files work is something that’s beyond the scope of this mailing list). As James pointed out and as I mentioned on several lists, when you upgrade between editions, the relevant features are unlocked.

As for Windows 10 release cycle: the days of yearly upgrades is now history. With a semi-annual release cadence, Microsoft is basically telling people to adopt a culture shift where rapid-fire releases are the norm. This is both a good news and a bad news for screen reader users and developers. On one hand, it allows features to reflect trends better. On the other hand, screen reader developers must be willing to “work around the clock” when it comes to providing support for various Windows 10 features. I have warned screen reader users and vendors before and will do so again: adopting to Windows as a Service (continuous delivery) requires a change in culture and attitudes towards upgrades (and no, you cannot stop feature updates on Windows 10 completely, nor expect JAWS to become a universal app tomorrow; the task involved in turning jfw.exe into a universal app deserves a separate and lengthy discussion).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

To be fair, Microsoft has done exactly the same thing with windows for ages. You install Windows 7 Ultimate from the exact same media as you install Windows 7 home from. The difference is all in the product key. Give it a different product key, the installer turns on the features that key unlocks. This is why you don't need to wipe your system if you're upgrading from home to pro or ultimate. windows 10 very probably works in exactly the same way. I've never been a fan of JFW's licensing system, particularly since they've gotten away from the ability to give back authorization keys you're not using (that's another rant for another thread), but it could always be a lot worse. You pay for a new major version of windows when it comes out, but those usually only come out every couple years - unless MS puts out a complete flop, but come on that never happens. JFW releases a major version of all its software at least once per year, and I get the impression - again, like Microsoft, drops support for previous versions shortly after. Imagine having to pay JFW prices annually?

 

Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. we've all given FS/HJ/VFO enough money over the years we've probably earned a long-term support license. HJ had years to do it and didn't. FS had years to do it and didn't. given recent and not-so-recent history, I don't see VFO doing it. I'd love to be wrong, but until I am, I'll just be thankful they're not trying to completely immitate Microsoft. In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on the current state of Narrator.

 


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: May-17-17 3:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Maria Campbell
 

Good job.


lucky1inct@...
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.
On 5/17/2017 1:53 AM, Tim Ford wrote:

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 



Tom Behler
 

I agree with what has been said here.

 

I think it reflects how so many of us feel at the current time.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Good job.

 

lucky1inct@...
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.

On 5/17/2017 1:53 AM, Tim Ford wrote:

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 

 


Mich Verrier
 

hi I tend to agree with this. also the avrige user of jaws doesn’t use most if not all of the features that jaws has to offer. from Mich.
 

From: James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.
 
To be fair, Microsoft has done exactly the same thing with windows for ages. You install Windows 7 Ultimate from the exact same media as you install Windows 7 home from. The difference is all in the product key. Give it a different product key, the installer turns on the features that key unlocks. This is why you don't need to wipe your system if you're upgrading from home to pro or ultimate. windows 10 very probably works in exactly the same way. I've never been a fan of JFW's licensing system, particularly since they've gotten away from the ability to give back authorization keys you're not using (that's another rant for another thread), but it could always be a lot worse. You pay for a new major version of windows when it comes out, but those usually only come out every couple years - unless MS puts out a complete flop, but come on that never happens. JFW releases a major version of all its software at least once per year, and I get the impression - again, like Microsoft, drops support for previous versions shortly after. Imagine having to pay JFW prices annually?
 
Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. we've all given FS/HJ/VFO enough money over the years we've probably earned a long-term support license. HJ had years to do it and didn't. FS had years to do it and didn't. given recent and not-so-recent history, I don't see VFO doing it. I'd love to be wrong, but until I am, I'll just be thankful they're not trying to completely immitate Microsoft. In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on the current state of Narrator.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: May-17-17 3:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v 

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

VFO logo, innovating in accessibilityour brands, freedom scientific andoptelec

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


 

Just for a tiny bit of perspective from someone who was once "on the other side" as a software developer it is unrealistic to expect any software maker to support a given version of something "in perpetuity."  Now, mind you, that's not to say that say, three or four of the most recent versions of a piece of software such as JAWS should not be simultaneously maintained, as I believe they should.  As many have pointed out, they're not seeking the new "bells and whistles" that are perpetually being added not only to JAWS, but to almost any piece of software you can name that's under active maintenance.   Freedom Scientific (now VFO) has historically been using "upgrade to the new version" as their fix for everything for as long as I've been tutoring JAWS.  What's worse, and I've experienced it more than once, is that there have been instances where the new version breaks existing functionality in specific circumstances and how that escaped testing is beyond me.

The long and the sort of it is that there are now very serious and very good competitors to JAWS that are available at little or no cost, depending on whether they ship with the OS you're using or not.  If I had my druthers the state agency for which I do most of my tutoring would have transitioned to one of those several years ago, but getting any bureaucracy to change is a long, slow proposition.  At the individual level it need not be and for certain alternatives the learning curve is not particularly steep.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


 

Hi Mich,

 

That is the case with every piece of software that has ever been made, the average user often only uses 10% or maybe a quarter of the available features and capabilities.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mich Verrier
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

hi I tend to agree with this. also the avrige user of jaws doesn’t use most if not all of the features that jaws has to offer. from Mich.

 

From: James Homuth

Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:25 AM

Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

To be fair, Microsoft has done exactly the same thing with windows for ages. You install Windows 7 Ultimate from the exact same media as you install Windows 7 home from. The difference is all in the product key. Give it a different product key, the installer turns on the features that key unlocks. This is why you don't need to wipe your system if you're upgrading from home to pro or ultimate. windows 10 very probably works in exactly the same way. I've never been a fan of JFW's licensing system, particularly since they've gotten away from the ability to give back authorization keys you're not using (that's another rant for another thread), but it could always be a lot worse. You pay for a new major version of windows when it comes out, but those usually only come out every couple years - unless MS puts out a complete flop, but come on that never happens. JFW releases a major version of all its software at least once per year, and I get the impression - again, like Microsoft, drops support for previous versions shortly after. Imagine having to pay JFW prices annually?

 

Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. we've all given FS/HJ/VFO enough money over the years we've probably earned a long-term support license. HJ had years to do it and didn't. FS had years to do it and didn't. given recent and not-so-recent history, I don't see VFO doing it. I'd love to be wrong, but until I am, I'll just be thankful they're not trying to completely immitate Microsoft. In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on the current state of Narrator.

 


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: May-17-17 3:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v 

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

VFO logo, innovating in accessibilityour brands, freedom scientific andoptelec

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Dave...
 

Tim,
 
Very well stated message to VFO. I am a JAWS user since version 3.5. I would much rather have seen improvements in stability over the new features that have been rolled out since version 14. Most of the new features don't impress me, or encourage me to invest time in learning how to best use them. Except for Convenient OCR, all those past features would be gladly surrendered in favor of basic stability and repairs to ongoing access issues.
 
Thank you for your message to VFO.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ford
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 00:14
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@vfo-groupcom

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


James Homuth
 

Agreed. Part of the reason I'm holding off on switching to 18, even though I'm authorized to use it, is exactly as stated right here. I've been on 14 since it came out. I'll likely be on 14 until I move to some later version of Windows, at which point 14 will do me more harm than good. I've played around with 18, but really, nothing's caught my attention.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave...
Sent: May-17-17 12:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Tim,
 
Very well stated message to VFO. I am a JAWS user since version 3.5. I would much rather have seen improvements in stability over the new features that have been rolled out since version 14. Most of the new features don't impress me, or encourage me to invest time in learning how to best use them. Except for Convenient OCR, all those past features would be gladly surrendered in favor of basic stability and repairs to ongoing access issues.
 
Thank you for your message to VFO.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ford
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 00:14
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

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support@vfo-groupcom

www.vfo-group.com

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From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Kevin Minor
 

Hi Tim and all.

 

Before I go into my response to what you wrote, I’ll state that you have every right to your opinions.  It may be just we have to agree to disagree.

 

I’d like to address two points in your email, Tim.

 

The first one is that Windows 10 changed how to access information in the file explorer dialogue.  This isn’t a JAWS problem.  JAWS is reading the dialogue correctly.  Instead of JAWS being the faulty part of this issue, I’d say it’s a Microsoft issue.  I have no idea why Windows 10 changed its method of working with the file explorer.  Also, another thing that’s strange on my PC running the latest JAWS and Windows 10 is the Windows Explorer dialogue is the last item in the windows dialogue.  Instead of using WINDOWS+TAB to open the dialogue of tasks, then hitting RIGHT ARROW to get to the dialogue, you hit LEFT ARROW to find it, select it, hit WINDOWS+TAB again then press ENTER to get focus to the dialogue.  Perhaps VFO could change things to work the way they used to, but for me I have no problem with how things work.  Ribbons are another example.  JAWS does have the option to make the ribbon behave like the old menu structure, but for me I might as well learn how ribbons work.  I haven’t seen other screen reader manufacturers add this feature to their software.

 

The second area where we may have to agree to having differences in opinions is the cost of SMAs for JAWS, and that it’s more expensive than other screen readers.  I own both Window-Eyes and JAWS.  For personal reasons I prefer JAWS.  Window-Eyes wasn’t as stable as JAWS, so it’s what I use.  I could be wrong with my information, but I believe that an SMA for Window-Eyes is $100 per SMA, the same price as a pro SMA for JAWS.  You can get a home SMA for JAWS for less than what was available for Window-Eyes.  Before folks start thinking I’m happy with all that VFO has done, I think that the company should give the features available forWindow-Eyes the same as JAWS.  I don’t know if this is still true, but I think you have to pay for the tandem option in JAWS, and it was free in Window-Eyes.  As I said, I could have that information wrong, but I do know that in the past Window-Eyes offered things that you would pay for in JAWS.

 

That’s my opinion on things.  You have every right to disagree with me.  As I said, I have both Window-Eyes and JAWS on my PC.  I’m pleased VFO will transfer SMAs from Window-Eyes to JAWS.We’ll have to see what happens.

 

Have a blessed day and don’t work too hard.

Kevin Minor and the amazing Jilly, Lexington, KY


James Homuth
 

Very minor clarification here. Tandem is free in JAWS. Tandem direct costs extra. The main difference of course being Tandem direct doesn't go through FS/VFO's servers first, and the method of actually establishing a connection is different. Most useful if you're doing work on an internal network. I paid for the feature, but I can't honestly recall ever using it.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: May-17-17 2:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Hi Tim and all.

 

Before I go into my response to what you wrote, I’ll state that you have every right to your opinions.  It may be just we have to agree to disagree.

 

I’d like to address two points in your email, Tim.

 

The first one is that Windows 10 changed how to access information in the file explorer dialogue.  This isn’t a JAWS problem.  JAWS is reading the dialogue correctly.  Instead of JAWS being the faulty part of this issue, I’d say it’s a Microsoft issue.  I have no idea why Windows 10 changed its method of working with the file explorer.  Also, another thing that’s strange on my PC running the latest JAWS and Windows 10 is the Windows Explorer dialogue is the last item in the windows dialogue.  Instead of using WINDOWS+TAB to open the dialogue of tasks, then hitting RIGHT ARROW to get to the dialogue, you hit LEFT ARROW to find it, select it, hit WINDOWS+TAB again then press ENTER to get focus to the dialogue.  Perhaps VFO could change things to work the way they used to, but for me I have no problem with how things work.  Ribbons are another example.  JAWS does have the option to make the ribbon behave like the old menu structure, but for me I might as well learn how ribbons work.  I haven’t seen other screen reader manufacturers add this feature to their software.

 

The second area where we may have to agree to having differences in opinions is the cost of SMAs for JAWS, and that it’s more expensive than other screen readers.  I own both Window-Eyes and JAWS.  For personal reasons I prefer JAWS.  Window-Eyes wasn’t as stable as JAWS, so it’s what I use.  I could be wrong with my information, but I believe that an SMA for Window-Eyes is $100 per SMA, the same price as a pro SMA for JAWS.  You can get a home SMA for JAWS for less than what was available for Window-Eyes.  Before folks start thinking I’m happy with all that VFO has done, I think that the company should give the features available forWindow-Eyes the same as JAWS.  I don’t know if this is still true, but I think you have to pay for the tandem option in JAWS, and it was free in Window-Eyes.  As I said, I could have that information wrong, but I do know that in the past Window-Eyes offered things that you would pay for in JAWS.

 

That’s my opinion on things.  You have every right to disagree with me.  As I said, I have both Window-Eyes and JAWS on my PC.  I’m pleased VFO will transfer SMAs from Window-Eyes to JAWS.We’ll have to see what happens.

 

Have a blessed day and don’t work too hard.

Kevin Minor and the amazing Jilly, Lexington, KY


Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

So if I wanted to help someone I am able to do that at no cost ?   How would I use tandom?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Very minor clarification here. Tandem is free in JAWS. Tandem direct costs extra. The main difference of course being Tandem direct doesn't go through FS/VFO's servers first, and the method of actually establishing a connection is different. Most useful if you're doing work on an internal network. I paid for the feature, but I can't honestly recall ever using it.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: May-17-17 2:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Hi Tim and all.

 

Before I go into my response to what you wrote, I’ll state that you have every right to your opinions.  It may be just we have to agree to disagree.

 

I’d like to address two points in your email, Tim.

 

The first one is that Windows 10 changed how to access information in the file explorer dialogue.  This isn’t a JAWS problem.  JAWS is reading the dialogue correctly.  Instead of JAWS being the faulty part of this issue, I’d say it’s a Microsoft issue.  I have no idea why Windows 10 changed its method of working with the file explorer.  Also, another thing that’s strange on my PC running the latest JAWS and Windows 10 is the Windows Explorer dialogue is the last item in the windows dialogue.  Instead of using WINDOWS+TAB to open the dialogue of tasks, then hitting RIGHT ARROW to get to the dialogue, you hit LEFT ARROW to find it, select it, hit WINDOWS+TAB again then press ENTER to get focus to the dialogue.  Perhaps VFO could change things to work the way they used to, but for me I have no problem with how things work.  Ribbons are another example.  JAWS does have the option to make the ribbon behave like the old menu structure, but for me I might as well learn how ribbons work.  I haven’t seen other screen reader manufacturers add this feature to their software.

 

The second area where we may have to agree to having differences in opinions is the cost of SMAs for JAWS, and that it’s more expensive than other screen readers.  I own both Window-Eyes and JAWS.  For personal reasons I prefer JAWS.  Window-Eyes wasn’t as stable as JAWS, so it’s what I use.  I could be wrong with my information, but I believe that an SMA for Window-Eyes is $100 per SMA, the same price as a pro SMA for JAWS.  You can get a home SMA for JAWS for less than what was available for Window-Eyes.  Before folks start thinking I’m happy with all that VFO has done, I think that the company should give the features available forWindow-Eyes the same as JAWS.  I don’t know if this is still true, but I think you have to pay for the tandem option in JAWS, and it was free in Window-Eyes.  As I said, I could have that information wrong, but I do know that in the past Window-Eyes offered things that you would pay for in JAWS.

 

That’s my opinion on things.  You have every right to disagree with me.  As I said, I have both Window-Eyes and JAWS on my PC.  I’m pleased VFO will transfer SMAs from Window-Eyes to JAWS.We’ll have to see what happens.

 

Have a blessed day and don’t work too hard.

Kevin Minor and the amazing Jilly, Lexington, KY


James Homuth
 

It's under utilities, then under JAWS Tandem. In the Tandem Center submenu, you have two options depending on whether you are the helper or the helpee. Allow access to my computer, or get access to a computer. If you choose the second option, you'll be taken to a dialogue where it'll want you to generate a meeting ID. This meeting ID is what you give to someone who wants you to take control of their machine.
 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: May-17-17 3:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

So if I wanted to help someone I am able to do that at no cost ?   How would I use tandom?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Very minor clarification here. Tandem is free in JAWS. Tandem direct costs extra. The main difference of course being Tandem direct doesn't go through FS/VFO's servers first, and the method of actually establishing a connection is different. Most useful if you're doing work on an internal network. I paid for the feature, but I can't honestly recall ever using it.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: May-17-17 2:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Hi Tim and all.

 

Before I go into my response to what you wrote, I’ll state that you have every right to your opinions.  It may be just we have to agree to disagree.

 

I’d like to address two points in your email, Tim.

 

The first one is that Windows 10 changed how to access information in the file explorer dialogue.  This isn’t a JAWS problem.  JAWS is reading the dialogue correctly.  Instead of JAWS being the faulty part of this issue, I’d say it’s a Microsoft issue.  I have no idea why Windows 10 changed its method of working with the file explorer.  Also, another thing that’s strange on my PC running the latest JAWS and Windows 10 is the Windows Explorer dialogue is the last item in the windows dialogue.  Instead of using WINDOWS+TAB to open the dialogue of tasks, then hitting RIGHT ARROW to get to the dialogue, you hit LEFT ARROW to find it, select it, hit WINDOWS+TAB again then press ENTER to get focus to the dialogue.  Perhaps VFO could change things to work the way they used to, but for me I have no problem with how things work.  Ribbons are another example.  JAWS does have the option to make the ribbon behave like the old menu structure, but for me I might as well learn how ribbons work.  I haven’t seen other screen reader manufacturers add this feature to their software.

 

The second area where we may have to agree to having differences in opinions is the cost of SMAs for JAWS, and that it’s more expensive than other screen readers.  I own both Window-Eyes and JAWS.  For personal reasons I prefer JAWS.  Window-Eyes wasn’t as stable as JAWS, so it’s what I use.  I could be wrong with my information, but I believe that an SMA for Window-Eyes is $100 per SMA, the same price as a pro SMA for JAWS.  You can get a home SMA for JAWS for less than what was available for Window-Eyes.  Before folks start thinking I’m happy with all that VFO has done, I think that the company should give the features available forWindow-Eyes the same as JAWS.  I don’t know if this is still true, but I think you have to pay for the tandem option in JAWS, and it was free in Window-Eyes.  As I said, I could have that information wrong, but I do know that in the past Window-Eyes offered things that you would pay for in JAWS.

 

That’s my opinion on things.  You have every right to disagree with me.  As I said, I have both Window-Eyes and JAWS on my PC.  I’m pleased VFO will transfer SMAs from Window-Eyes to JAWS.We’ll have to see what happens.

 

Have a blessed day and don’t work too hard.

Kevin Minor and the amazing Jilly, Lexington, KY


Mario
 

yep

-------- Original Message --------
From: Dennis L [mailto:dennisl1982@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:23 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS
is the proper solution.

So if I wanted to help someone I am able to do that at no cost ? How would
I use tandom?



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James
Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS
is the proper solution.



Very minor clarification here. Tandem is free in JAWS. Tandem direct costs
extra. The main difference of course being Tandem direct doesn't go through
FS/VFO's servers first, and the method of actually establishing a connection
is different. Most useful if you're doing work on an internal network. I
paid for the feature, but I can't honestly recall ever using it.

_____

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: May-17-17 2:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS
is the proper solution.

Hi Tim and all.



Before I go into my response to what you wrote, I'll state that you have
every right to your opinions. It may be just we have to agree to disagree.



I'd like to address two points in your email, Tim.



The first one is that Windows 10 changed how to access information in the
file explorer dialogue. This isn't a JAWS problem. JAWS is reading the
dialogue correctly. Instead of JAWS being the faulty part of this issue,
I'd say it's a Microsoft issue. I have no idea why Windows 10 changed its
method of working with the file explorer. Also, another thing that's
strange on my PC running the latest JAWS and Windows 10 is the Windows
Explorer dialogue is the last item in the windows dialogue. Instead of
using WINDOWS+TAB to open the dialogue of tasks, then hitting RIGHT ARROW to
get to the dialogue, you hit LEFT ARROW to find it, select it, hit
WINDOWS+TAB again then press ENTER to get focus to the dialogue. Perhaps
VFO could change things to work the way they used to, but for me I have no
problem with how things work. Ribbons are another example. JAWS does have
the option to make the ribbon behave like the old menu structure, but for me
I might as well learn how ribbons work. I haven't seen other screen reader
manufacturers add this feature to their software.



The second area where we may have to agree to having differences in opinions
is the cost of SMAs for JAWS, and that it's more expensive than other screen
readers. I own both Window-Eyes and JAWS. For personal reasons I prefer
JAWS. Window-Eyes wasn't as stable as JAWS, so it's what I use. I could be
wrong with my information, but I believe that an SMA for Window-Eyes is $100
per SMA, the same price as a pro SMA for JAWS. You can get a home SMA for
JAWS for less than what was available for Window-Eyes. Before folks start
thinking I'm happy with all that VFO has done, I think that the company
should give the features available forWindow-Eyes the same as JAWS. I don't
know if this is still true, but I think you have to pay for the tandem
option in JAWS, and it was free in Window-Eyes. As I said, I could have
that information wrong, but I do know that in the past Window-Eyes offered
things that you would pay for in JAWS.



That's my opinion on things. You have every right to disagree with me. As
I said, I have both Window-Eyes and JAWS on my PC. I'm pleased VFO will
transfer SMAs from Window-Eyes to JAWS.We'll have to see what happens.



Have a blessed day and don't work too hard.

Kevin Minor and the amazing Jilly, Lexington, KY


Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Is that a cost that I need to pay to use that service if so how much?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

It's under utilities, then under JAWS Tandem. In the Tandem Center submenu, you have two options depending on whether you are the helper or the helpee. Allow access to my computer, or get access to a computer. If you choose the second option, you'll be taken to a dialogue where it'll want you to generate a meeting ID. This meeting ID is what you give to someone who wants you to take control of their machine.

 


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: May-17-17 3:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

So if I wanted to help someone I am able to do that at no cost ?   How would I use tandom?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Very minor clarification here. Tandem is free in JAWS. Tandem direct costs extra. The main difference of course being Tandem direct doesn't go through FS/VFO's servers first, and the method of actually establishing a connection is different. Most useful if you're doing work on an internal network. I paid for the feature, but I can't honestly recall ever using it.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: May-17-17 2:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Hi Tim and all.

 

Before I go into my response to what you wrote, I’ll state that you have every right to your opinions.  It may be just we have to agree to disagree.

 

I’d like to address two points in your email, Tim.

 

The first one is that Windows 10 changed how to access information in the file explorer dialogue.  This isn’t a JAWS problem.  JAWS is reading the dialogue correctly.  Instead of JAWS being the faulty part of this issue, I’d say it’s a Microsoft issue.  I have no idea why Windows 10 changed its method of working with the file explorer.  Also, another thing that’s strange on my PC running the latest JAWS and Windows 10 is the Windows Explorer dialogue is the last item in the windows dialogue.  Instead of using WINDOWS+TAB to open the dialogue of tasks, then hitting RIGHT ARROW to get to the dialogue, you hit LEFT ARROW to find it, select it, hit WINDOWS+TAB again then press ENTER to get focus to the dialogue.  Perhaps VFO could change things to work the way they used to, but for me I have no problem with how things work.  Ribbons are another example.  JAWS does have the option to make the ribbon behave like the old menu structure, but for me I might as well learn how ribbons work.  I haven’t seen other screen reader manufacturers add this feature to their software.

 

The second area where we may have to agree to having differences in opinions is the cost of SMAs for JAWS, and that it’s more expensive than other screen readers.  I own both Window-Eyes and JAWS.  For personal reasons I prefer JAWS.  Window-Eyes wasn’t as stable as JAWS, so it’s what I use.  I could be wrong with my information, but I believe that an SMA for Window-Eyes is $100 per SMA, the same price as a pro SMA for JAWS.  You can get a home SMA for JAWS for less than what was available for Window-Eyes.  Before folks start thinking I’m happy with all that VFO has done, I think that the company should give the features available forWindow-Eyes the same as JAWS.  I don’t know if this is still true, but I think you have to pay for the tandem option in JAWS, and it was free in Window-Eyes.  As I said, I could have that information wrong, but I do know that in the past Window-Eyes offered things that you would pay for in JAWS.

 

That’s my opinion on things.  You have every right to disagree with me.  As I said, I have both Window-Eyes and JAWS on my PC.  I’m pleased VFO will transfer SMAs from Window-Eyes to JAWS.We’ll have to see what happens.

 

Have a blessed day and don’t work too hard.

Kevin Minor and the amazing Jilly, Lexington, KY