What is the issue with Captchas?


 

. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it" button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian


Maria Campbell
 

Well of course, we can't see the letters, numbers, etc., but to add insult to injury, the audible presentation is so garbled, it's hard to tell, what to enter what one is supposed to hears. And that doesn't even come close to the additional problems for people with hearing loss, such as myself.

On 1/5/2016 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had
a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it"
button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm
wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as
I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Kevin Wollenweber <dancingweed@...>
 

Captchas are a major headache, even when you reload or do whatever to try and get something that you can even understand.  It often sounds like an old tape where you can hear the reverse side as gibberish, and it is distracting when trying to understand what the captcha is trying to tell you!  I’ve heard there is no longer a need for these silly things and they should be stopped!

 

Kevin


Kane Brolin
 

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen,
once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example,
requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to
change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive
task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole
point. They want something that requires subjective, human perception
to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software
could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper
does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


Melissa Stott <mstott69@...>
 

Maria, you are so right. I myself have a hearing loss, and I find it so annoying.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:08 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Well of course, we can't see the letters, numbers, etc., but to add
insult to injury, the audible presentation is so garbled, it's hard to
tell, what to enter what one is supposed to hears. And that doesn't
even come close to the additional problems for people with hearing loss,
such as myself.


On 1/5/2016 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had
a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it"
button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm
wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as
I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Brad Martin
 

Some of them have gotten better than they used to be. I swear some of the old ones were so muffled you'd hear
oo
and you didn't know if
oo
was
2
q
or
u

**ee
was it
t
e
v
b
c
d
p

Some sites still don't have audio captchas, and in some cases where they do, the audio opens in a media player, so JAWS loses focus and you have to rush to get back to where you can type the captcha, by which point you've missed half the letters.

Brad

On 1/5/2016 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it" button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian



Tom Behler
 

I totally agree with your assessment of the problems with captchas, Maria.

Very well stated!

Dr. Tom Behler

-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Campbell [mailto:lucky1@ct.metrocast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:09 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Well of course, we can't see the letters, numbers, etc., but to add insult to injury, the audible presentation is so garbled, it's hard to tell, what to enter what one is supposed to hears. And that doesn't even come close to the additional problems for people with hearing loss, such as myself.


On 1/5/2016 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet
had a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it"
button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm
wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future,
as I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Gudrun Brunot
 

Yes, Brian, you may well include captcha practice. I'd sign up myself for that... The link to audio will open, certainly, even play something. There is usually so much background hiss, the enunciation so unclear, that you can hardly hear what's spoken. Things are not made easier by the fact that you need to alt-tab back into notepad (if you've had the foresight to launch it to be at the ready for jotting down the darned string). I am not an inexperienced web visitor, but I find myself more and more saving those instances where I must interact with webpages and fill out forms to such days when I have a reader. I just lost my very excellent one, by the way. Painful.

Anyway, I've tried Webvisum as well, and had no luck.



Gudrun the captcha hater

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:55 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: What is the issue with Captchas?

. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it" button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian


Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
 

They often work, but who wants to keep asking for another or replaying the one. I have heard some that work quite well, but some are garbled to make it harder to find what numbers/letters they want.

Cindy

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 6:55 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: What is the issue with Captchas?

 

. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it" button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian


Gerald Levy
 

 
Actually, the use of image captchas seems to be expanding.  A few blind Amazon customers have reported being confronted by image captchas when they attempted to sign in to their accounts, and a few major merchants like Home Depot impose image cattchas during the online check-out procedure. In the case of Amazon, there is no audio captcha alternative, so the only recourse for a blind customer is to either use Webvisum or Rumola to solve the captcha or else find a working pair of eyeballs. 
 
Gerald
 
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?
 
Some of them have gotten better than they used to be. I swear some of the old ones were so muffled you'd hear
oo
and you didn't know if
oo
was
2
q
or
u

**ee
was it
t
e
v
b
c
d
p

Some sites still don't have audio captchas, and in some cases where they do, the audio opens in a media player, so JAWS loses focus and you have to rush to get back to where you can type the captcha, by which point you've missed half the letters.

Brad

On 1/5/2016 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it" button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian



judith bron
 

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point. They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
 

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers. There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point. They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


judith bron
 

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers. There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point. They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


Mario
 

in addition, the websites that do use CAPTCHAs sometimes do not offer an audio version.

On 1/5/2016 8:08 PM, Maria Campbell wrote:
Well of course, we can't see the letters, numbers, etc., but to add
insult to injury, the audible presentation is so garbled, it's hard to
tell, what to enter what one is supposed to hears. And that doesn't
even come close to the additional problems for people with hearing loss,
such as myself.


On 1/5/2016 6:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
. . . and I ask that question in all sincerity, since I haven't yet had
a client complain to me about not being able to get past them.

The version I'm seeing these days always includes a "pronounce it"
button an a "reload another" button attached to the Captcha, and I'm
wondering if those simply don't work when working with JAWS.

I may have to include "Captcha practice" at some point in the future, as
I know they're fairly ubiquitous.

Brian


Gerald Levy
 

And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald

-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers. There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point. They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


judith bron
 

Agreed

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point.
They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


 

Judith,

            I will do my best to explain the function of Captchas as a security mechanism and some of the "side benefits" that have been derived from them.

            Captchas work extremely well in differentiating human beings from robots (mostly spambots).  The technology is evolving, and there is actually a move away from the conventional Captcha, but it's happening slowly.  Originally, virtually every Captcha text you would be presented with was literally scanned from old books and was usually two words.  These were words that were difficult to read and there was controversy about what they actually were, but only regarding a letter or two.  Having millions of humans see these, and give their typewritten responses as to what they were, gave researchers a way to narrow down what these words probably are as more and more people leaned toward a given answer.  They are excellent for preventing robots from using them like humans (sighted ones, anyway) do because they are not characters displayed in a way that technology can just skim off and spit back out, thus they prevent automated registrations and various sorts of automated attacks by programs.   The same idea carries over to the recordings used if you can't see these items.  They're not meant to be crystal clear because there does exist speech recognition software that can easily take "clean" recordings and translate them to the necessary text.  It's only humans that can hear recordings that have imperfections such as those that characterize old records with their pops and cracks (among other distractions) and zero in on what's signal (what they want you to type) and what's noise.

            Captchas, at least the ones that are actual Captchas, do not require that you give "the correct answer" but just one that's "correct enough."  The very nature of the beast is such that there is ambiguity about certain parts of the image, and so long as the response is unambiguous about the characters that are unambiguous, but could be anything for the characters that are ambiguous, the test is passed.  It really was a brilliant way to separate the human from the computerized intruder.  The addition of the audio portion was done after the light bulb went off that the blind and visually impaired are never going to be reading Captchas from the scanned images, but the audio is meant to be at least somewhat ambiguous as well for precisely the same reasons.

            I'm not trying to defend Captchas from an accessibility standpoint here.  But, contrary to your assertions, they are very, very, very effective at differentiating humans from robot programs and if you think about some of the places where you're encountering them you will see why that might be a security priority at that particular juncture.

            Security features are designed to be barriers.  What they ideally should not be are accessibility barriers.  If you go to the official website of the "classic Captcha" and click on anything you are immediately redirected to Google's site for the new reCaptcha (which, by the way, I'd really wonder if it is accessible by design, as it should be) where the next generation of the technology, which does not require any reading, but is "point and click" in a way that remains confusing to machines but quite clear to humans (and I think to screen readers, too).  I've seen lots of reCaptchas already.  This may let you know that what's coming next is better, or let you start complaining (and legitimately) about accessibility issues ahead of the broader use of this technology.

Brian


Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
 

Gerald, do you belong to a blind advocacy group? Either one of them? It is pretty amazing to make a statement like this if you don't: And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.
We who are blind are all responsible for helping to make the changes. Much change has been made; some of this issue has been worked on as well. Probably the reason for audio captchas has something to do with blind advocacy groups. I don't for the life understand how people self-righteously make statements like this, yet they are not willing to stand with us and work on the problems.
Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 8:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point.
They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


 

Cindy Ray,

           You are entitled to your anger, which is justifiable, but not to your assertion that Captchas value at thwarting hackers is "dubious at best."  They functioned (and function) brilliantly at preventing machine-based attacks of all sorts.  They were and are a brilliant idea that had "the law of unintended consequences" attached.  They've also been modified with audio, at least genuine Captcha captchas have, due to accessibility concerns.

           Gerald's assertion is dubious, at best, as advocacy from individuals and groups is precisely what has driven the changes that have already occurred and continue to occur.  When it comes down to it the old adage, "It's not all about you," (and that's for the generic you) applies here.  Businesses and entities are only trying to protect themselves and their assets, and, by extension, their clients.  There is no malicious intent and there is far more awareness, and responsiveness, with regard to accessibility issues when those are identified.

           There is no "one size fits all" solution to any problem, and there is no utility in creating a completely permeable barrier when a partial barrier is actually needed.  Input from those negatively affected is an incredibly valuable and necessary part of working through some issues that really had not been anticipated.


Mario
 

I think the reason why website authors used the idea of the CAPTCHA is because it was the only solution they could think of to provide some way of thwarting spammers and web bots at the time, and therefore the wide spread use of these little devils, to add to what Gerald said.

On 1/6/2016 9:53 AM, Cindy Ray wrote:
Gerald, do you belong to a blind advocacy group? Either one of them? It is pretty amazing to make a statement like this if you don't: And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.
We who are blind are all responsible for helping to make the changes. Much change has been made; some of this issue has been worked on as well. Probably the reason for audio captchas has something to do with blind advocacy groups. I don't for the life understand how people self-righteously make statements like this, yet they are not willing to stand with us and work on the problems.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 8:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point.
They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane