moderated having trouble with a web page


Jed Barton
 

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk


Joseph Hudson
 

Hi Jed, the states and jobs are split I'm going to Collins, so you have to interact with the column in that state jobs as you want. Does that help you any? There's no pop up box or anything.

On Aug 24, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk



dennis
 

after it says state there is a blank line. press enter to activate forms mode. press alt plus down arrow like you would open a dialog box. then just down and up arrow till you find your state and press enter. i'm using latest jaws and waterfox. hope this helps.

On 8/24/2019 4:29 PM, Jed Barton wrote:
Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state.  It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state.  I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk




--
Dennis Cornelison

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Jed Barton
 

ok, what is waterfox? I'm using firefox

On 8/24/19, dennis <dennisc67@gmail.com> wrote:
after it says state there is a blank line. press enter to activate forms
mode. press alt plus down arrow like you would open a dialog box. then just
down and up arrow till you find your state and press enter. i'm using latest
jaws and waterfox. hope this helps.

On 8/24/2019 4:29 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk



--
Dennis Cornelison

[image]
Virus-free. www.avast.com


Jed Barton
 

so i have no idea how to interact with this. I can't believe someone
would design a web page like this. When i hit the enter button on the
edit box, it makes like a beep sound like it's going into forms mode.
Then when i hit alt and down arrow, it sounds like it's coming out off
forms mode.
I arrow down to Rhode Island, depress the enter key, and it keeps
telling me something about edge, like it's launching the edge web
browser. Now i'm really confused. Any help guys?

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:
ok, what is waterfox? I'm using firefox

On 8/24/19, dennis <dennisc67@gmail.com> wrote:
after it says state there is a blank line. press enter to activate forms
mode. press alt plus down arrow like you would open a dialog box. then
just
down and up arrow till you find your state and press enter. i'm using
latest
jaws and waterfox. hope this helps.

On 8/24/2019 4:29 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk



--
Dennis Cornelison

[image]
Virus-free. www.avast.com



Jed Barton
 

so when i am going through this form, after the zipcode, there is an
edit box, after that, it says black down pointing small triangle.
What the hell is that supposed to mean. so i depress the enter key.
Then as i am arrowing through the states, they just look like words.
So i get to rhode island and depress the enter key. Then it says
starting microsoft edge.
Why would it launch edge, i'm not even running edge, i'm running
firefox. What am i missing here guys. I have to get this form filled
out this weekend.

Cheers,

Jed

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:
so i have no idea how to interact with this. I can't believe someone
would design a web page like this. When i hit the enter button on the
edit box, it makes like a beep sound like it's going into forms mode.
Then when i hit alt and down arrow, it sounds like it's coming out off
forms mode.
I arrow down to Rhode Island, depress the enter key, and it keeps
telling me something about edge, like it's launching the edge web
browser. Now i'm really confused. Any help guys?

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:
ok, what is waterfox? I'm using firefox

On 8/24/19, dennis <dennisc67@gmail.com> wrote:
after it says state there is a blank line. press enter to activate forms
mode. press alt plus down arrow like you would open a dialog box. then
just
down and up arrow till you find your state and press enter. i'm using
latest
jaws and waterfox. hope this helps.

On 8/24/2019 4:29 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk



--
Dennis Cornelison

[image]
Virus-free. www.avast.com





dennis
 

i'm lost on that one.

On 8/24/2019 5:48 PM, Jed Barton wrote:
so when i am going through this form, after the zipcode, there is an
edit box, after that, it says  black down pointing small triangle.
What the hell is that supposed to mean.  so i depress the enter key.
Then as i am arrowing through the states, they just look like words.
So i get to rhode island and depress the enter key.  Then it says
starting microsoft edge.
Why would it launch edge, i'm not even running edge, i'm running
firefox.  What am i missing here guys.  I have to get this form filled
out this weekend.

Cheers,

Jed

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@...> wrote:
so i have no idea how to interact with this.  I can't believe someone
would design a web page like this.  When i hit the enter button on the
edit box, it makes like a beep sound like it's going into forms mode.
Then when i hit alt and down arrow, it sounds like it's coming out off
forms mode.
I arrow down to Rhode Island, depress the enter key, and it keeps
telling me something about edge, like it's launching the edge web
browser.  Now i'm really confused.  Any help guys?

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@...> wrote:
ok, what is waterfox?  I'm using firefox

On 8/24/19, dennis <dennisc67@...> wrote:
after it says state there is a blank line. press enter to activate forms
mode. press alt plus down arrow like you would open a dialog box. then
just
down and up arrow till you find your state and press enter. i'm using
latest
jaws and waterfox. hope this helps.

On 8/24/2019 4:29 PM, Jed Barton wrote:
Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state.  It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state.  I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk




--
Dennis Cornelison

[image]
Virus-free. www.avast.com










--
Dennis Cornelison

Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

Jed,

           No snark whatsoever is intended with what follows.

           Try a different web browser (pick any Chromium based one), screen reader, or both.

           What I get when I hit the state box is a bit odd, but if you begin typing out the whole state name the correct one appears as soon as you've given enough characters to make it distinct.  For example, typing V shows Virginia, Vermont, and Virgin Islands.  Add the letter I and Vermont disappears, add the "rgini" and you only have Virginia as the choice.  When I hit Enter it fills in Virginia and says something like "Virginia link" or similar.   This thing is not a conventional combo box.  It is a new thing that I have never encountered before, and I actually like it far better than a conventional combo box.  I cannot figure out why the list of options is not being read as one arrows down through them, but either this new object is not exposing the text to the screen reader or screen readers have not yet been updated to deal with this new web object.  I was using NVDA and Brave (which is Chromium-based) for my quick test.

             If you need to fill in Rhode Island then all you need to do is type the letter R and hit Enter.  The screen reader should tell you that Rhode Island now appears in the state box.

             Over time I have certainly learned that different browsers and different screen readers may "play better" with specific web pages.  When push comes to shove I change one variable at a time, typically changing the browser first, and the screen reader second.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Jed Barton
 

Well, that was the ticket. That's certainly interesting. It does
make it confusing for sure. Thanks a ton guys, sorry to drive you
crazy.

On 8/24/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Jed,

No snark whatsoever is intended with what follows.

Try a different web browser (pick any Chromium based one), screen reader, or
both.

What I get when I hit the state box is a bit odd, but if you begin typing
out the whole state name the correct one appears as soon as you've given
enough characters to make it distinct.  For example, typing V shows
Virginia, Vermont, and Virgin Islands.  Add the letter I and Vermont
disappears, add the "rgini" and you only have Virginia as the choice.  When
I hit Enter it fills in Virginia and says something like "Virginia link" or
similar.   This thing is not a conventional combo box.  It is a new thing
that I have never encountered before, and I actually like it far better than
a conventional combo box.  I cannot figure out why the list of options is
not being read as one arrows down through them, but either this new object
is not exposing the text to the screen reader or screen readers have not yet
been updated to deal with this new web object.  I was using NVDA and Brave
(which is Chromium-based) for my quick test.

If you need to fill in Rhode Island then all you need to do is type the
letter R and hit Enter.  The screen reader should tell you that Rhode Island
now appears in the state box.

Over time I have certainly learned that different browsers and different
screen readers may "play better" with specific web pages.  When push comes
to shove I change one variable at a time, typically changing the browser
first, and the screen reader second.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

~ Eric Hoffer




Dean Martineau <topdot@...>
 

This is a non-standard control, but it doesn't look unusable. With Chrome, I tab to the edit box, and type in the first two letters of Rhode island. Then I tab and there it is in the box. You might have to arrow up to fill it in, I'm not sure, but henceforth, when I tabbed through the form, Rhode Island came up when I hit the State field. So try that and see if you can submit the form. The zip code is the same kind of field. I don't know if the form allows you to select them from a map, or what the deal is.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 6:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: having trouble with a web page

so when i am going through this form, after the zipcode, there is an
edit box, after that, it says black down pointing small triangle.
What the hell is that supposed to mean. so i depress the enter key.
Then as i am arrowing through the states, they just look like words.
So i get to rhode island and depress the enter key. Then it says
starting microsoft edge.
Why would it launch edge, i'm not even running edge, i'm running
firefox. What am i missing here guys. I have to get this form filled
out this weekend.

Cheers,

Jed

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:
so i have no idea how to interact with this. I can't believe someone
would design a web page like this. When i hit the enter button on the
edit box, it makes like a beep sound like it's going into forms mode.
Then when i hit alt and down arrow, it sounds like it's coming out off
forms mode.
I arrow down to Rhode Island, depress the enter key, and it keeps
telling me something about edge, like it's launching the edge web
browser. Now i'm really confused. Any help guys?

On 8/24/19, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:
ok, what is waterfox? I'm using firefox

On 8/24/19, dennis <dennisc67@gmail.com> wrote:
after it says state there is a blank line. press enter to activate forms
mode. press alt plus down arrow like you would open a dialog box. then
just
down and up arrow till you find your state and press enter. i'm using
latest
jaws and waterfox. hope this helps.

On 8/24/2019 4:29 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://www.embracehomeloans.com/recruiting/lets-talk



--
Dennis Cornelison

[image]
Virus-free. www.avast.com





 

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 07:08 PM, Jed Barton wrote:
That's certainly interesting. It does
make it confusing for sure.
I, truly, cannot imagine what it's like for screen reader users faced with the continuous changes to web coding that have gone on for years and show no sign of stopping.

No matter how quickly screen reader makers integrate access to what shakes out as "gonna stick around" after a short time, the next round of "let's come up with something else, that doesn't do anything all that much different than established method X, just for the fun of it" occurs.    There are times, and from what I can see on this page as a sighted user, and how that search box works, this would be a major improvement if the screen reader and web object/control played well together, which clearly they do not at the moment.  Maybe eventually they will.

This is one reason, when it's readily available, that I tell my clients not to hesitate to seek sighted assistance when something just isn't working.   You can often spend hours and hours, getting more and more [justifiably] frustrated, and still not achieve the end you're looking for.   The control/object in question was entirely new to me, too, but being able to see what was happening and what the screen reader was/was not doing in response to it made all the difference.  It's about accomplishing something with the minimum of time and trouble possible, which often involves calling for help (whether sighted or not, as this group illustrates on a regular basis).

If you do the above every two seconds, that's when people eventually come at you with knives!  ;-)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Don Mauck
 

Can you get to that field, and type in it? Maybe, if you just get to that field, and type in it the state will populate automatically. Hope this helps.

Sent from my iPhone7

On Aug 24, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@twc.com> wrote:

Hi Jed, the states and jobs are split I'm going to Collins, so you have to interact with the column in that state jobs as you want. Does that help you any? There's no pop up box or anything.
On Aug 24, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Jed Barton <jed@jedbarton.com> wrote:

Hey guys
So i am trying to apply for a position, but am running into an issue
with their web page.
So i can fill out most of the form, until i get to the state. It
comes up as an edit box, but it also looks like it's a dropdown to
select a state. I don't understand why people don't use combo boxes
the way they are supposed to.
Can someone look at it, to figure out how i am supposed to enter the
state, cause i can't submit the form.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.embracehomeloans.com_recruiting_lets-2Dtalk&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=EQ0xAgqxGediPFS2iJyMwtaJACO0PE04qO0-xFG1duE&m=byESqo4eCg6aIMMRhBOmfquePOIP64qw9vHRC-qfo28&s=fpcmWVGQLUUu7sXuNsHvexCIoAFjOvmVdu1Os6jbkSw&e=





The Iowa Gal <iowagal728@...>
 

Hi brian, I agree with you about sighted assistance, which is what I finally had to do when I encountered this same situation on a job application. I know exactly what the original poster went through. Perhaps this new weird combo box thing is popular with developers of job application sites or whatever. Once I had it explained to me, I understood it, but it is still pretty unconventional, at least in my view. I really feel for those who run into something like this with no where to turn. A show stopper, unfortunately. Norma

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:46 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: having trouble with a web page

 

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 07:08 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

That's certainly interesting. It does
make it confusing for sure.

I, truly, cannot imagine what it's like for screen reader users faced with the continuous changes to web coding that have gone on for years and show no sign of stopping.

No matter how quickly screen reader makers integrate access to what shakes out as "gonna stick around" after a short time, the next round of "let's come up with something else, that doesn't do anything all that much different than established method X, just for the fun of it" occurs.    There are times, and from what I can see on this page as a sighted user, and how that search box works, this would be a major improvement if the screen reader and web object/control played well together, which clearly they do not at the moment.  Maybe eventually they will.

This is one reason, when it's readily available, that I tell my clients not to hesitate to seek sighted assistance when something just isn't working.   You can often spend hours and hours, getting more and more [justifiably] frustrated, and still not achieve the end you're looking for.   The control/object in question was entirely new to me, too, but being able to see what was happening and what the screen reader was/was not doing in response to it made all the difference.  It's about accomplishing something with the minimum of time and trouble possible, which often involves calling for help (whether sighted or not, as this group illustrates on a regular basis).

If you do the above every two seconds, that's when people eventually come at you with knives!  ;-)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


 

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:41 AM, The Iowa Gal wrote:
I agree with you about sighted assistance, which is what I finally had to do when I encountered this same situation on a job application. I know exactly what the original poster went through.
As do I.   As a tutor I've frequently encountered new "web objects" for which no conventional interaction techniques, as most of us know them, work.  The nature of the web is such that these will be perpetually being created and screen reader developers will perpetually playing catch-up, at least for the ones that end up lasting.

This is another case where self-advocacy in regard to lack of accessibility is really necessary.   If you (the generic you) do not inform the entities that have this stuff out there that it's posing an accessibility roadblock it is very, very highly unlikely that they will ever know it.   I am not saying it's right that accessibility is not taken into account in many cases, but it is a fact that this occurs, and the smaller the entity the more likely that they have no idea of how to fix that or even consider accessibility.   And even if a given entity has a virtually perfect track record on accessibility, just one change adding one of these objects where extensive regression testing focused on accessibility was not performed can allow it to get out there.  No one can fix what they don't know is broken, and if they're unaware of accessibility issues as part of design, you can bring that to their attention for the first time.

But, if time is of the essence, get sighted help or try to get the HR folks from the place you're applying on the phone.  One way or another there will likely be a way to get an application completed even if that means intervention by someone else to "fill in the blanks" while things are still inaccessible.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Kevin Meyers <kevinmeyers@...>
 

Brian, I totally agree with you about web sites. I even took a class in web development. This gave me a much better idea of what to tell owners of a web site what is wrong and what would help correct the issues. No I’m not an expert and anything helps. What I found during the class is two web sites that work with individuals that are disabled. Neither sites follow the 508C and WCAG standards. One of the sites has links to pages that don’t exist. I tried to help the one site and they didn’t want any input. This site’s web developer has a disability in which he has limitted use of his hands. Soon he won’t be able to use a mouse. I will keep providing my input and hope something happens.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:22 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: having trouble with a web page

 

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:41 AM, The Iowa Gal wrote:

I agree with you about sighted assistance, which is what I finally had to do when I encountered this same situation on a job application. I know exactly what the original poster went through.

As do I.   As a tutor I've frequently encountered new "web objects" for which no conventional interaction techniques, as most of us know them, work.  The nature of the web is such that these will be perpetually being created and screen reader developers will perpetually playing catch-up, at least for the ones that end up lasting.

This is another case where self-advocacy in regard to lack of accessibility is really necessary.   If you (the generic you) do not inform the entities that have this stuff out there that it's posing an accessibility roadblock it is very, very highly unlikely that they will ever know it.   I am not saying it's right that accessibility is not taken into account in many cases, but it is a fact that this occurs, and the smaller the entity the more likely that they have no idea of how to fix that or even consider accessibility.   And even if a given entity has a virtually perfect track record on accessibility, just one change adding one of these objects where extensive regression testing focused on accessibility was not performed can allow it to get out there.  No one can fix what they don't know is broken, and if they're unaware of accessibility issues as part of design, you can bring that to their attention for the first time.

But, if time is of the essence, get sighted help or try to get the HR folks from the place you're applying on the phone.  One way or another there will likely be a way to get an application completed even if that means intervention by someone else to "fill in the blanks" while things are still inaccessible.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer