moderated how does one join the new JAWS list


JM Casey
 

Yeah, not a fan of that approach at all!

Even though it wasn’t official as such, I always thought the old JAWS list mods worked too hard to supress negative commentary. I am aware complaining can just go too far at times, but I think a “community” that’s not geared toward mere propaganda has a right to discuss something that they feel is an issue or not being properly addressed by the makers of certain software.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: August 26, 2019 8:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

I have to agree with Brian here, regarding lists run by an agency.  On a guide dog list which was supposed to be an authorized group by the school.  It Was, and anything perceived as negative was quickly dealt with by school administrators.  Problem was the snitch was adept at the cut and paste method.  Thus would cut out of messages important details then forward the altered message to the powers that be. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: August 26, 2019 4:44 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

I personally did not know about this one until the other one failed.

I was considering creating one myself because of the manner that the old one was managed.

Then the other one closed and someone informed me of this one.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:03 PM

Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

Brian,

I could not agree more.

Why people were so quick to recreate a group when this one was running fine is a mystery to me.

 

Richard

 

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 

 

 

On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.

And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


David Diamond
 

I left the NVDA list a long time ago because of petty discussions and debates.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Groups.Io
Sent: August 26, 2019 3:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list


Not any more.  There will soon be a second list devoted to NVDA, just as a second list has been created for JAWS users. Apparently, the creator of the new NVDA list, who has had a long history of being argumentative and confrontational on every list he belongs to, was stripped of his co-moderator status on the original NVDA list because of complaints from other list members and so, like the creator of the new JFW Users list, he decided to get even  and start his own NVDA list, where he can be as confrontational as he wants. I won't mention his name, but anyone who belongs to the Blind Tech or Tech Talk lists knows who I'm talking about.

Gerald



On 8/26/2019 5:34 PM, Mario wrote:
I agree. there should be one list for JAWS, just like there's one for
NVDA, Windows 10, Thunderbird, etc. questions.

------- Original Message --------
From: JM Casey [mailto:jmcasey@teksavvy.com]
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 26, 2019, 5:17 PM
Subject: how does one join the new JAWS list

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists
essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on
both/all of them, what’ll happen is that you’ll end up seeing the same
question repeated multiple times.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian
Vogel
*Sent:* August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not
find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on
Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the
now defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to
our island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information
sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why
not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at
least within any given language community? What am I missing?


David Diamond
 

I have to agree with Brian here, regarding lists run by an agency.  On a guide dog list which was supposed to be an authorized group by the school.  It Was, and anything perceived as negative was quickly dealt with by school administrators.  Problem was the snitch was adept at the cut and paste method.  Thus would cut out of messages important details then forward the altered message to the powers that be. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: August 26, 2019 4:44 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

I personally did not know about this one until the other one failed.

I was considering creating one myself because of the manner that the old one was managed.

Then the other one closed and someone informed me of this one.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:03 PM

Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

Brian,

I could not agree more.

Why people were so quick to recreate a group when this one was running fine is a mystery to me.

 

Richard

 

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 

 



On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.

And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Kendra Schafer <redwing731@...>
 

Hi all! 
I went ahead and joined this group when all of my other blindness related email lists kept sending around the way to subscribe to this group. I’m glad they did because I’m a user of JAWS and this is one way to keep updated and ask questions regarding JAWS as they come up. 

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", Author Unknown. 
Thank you for reading this email! Also, please note that I have eighth grade spelling. I'm well known for spelling mistakes. Ironicly, writing is one of my gifts. 
Blessed  Be! 
Kendra Schaber, 
Student of Chemeketa Community College, 
member of 350.ORG Salem, 
Member of the National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter. 
Writing on my Polaris Braille Sense. 
Using both Gmail and Outlook. 
Go Detroit, Red Wings! Go Pittsburgh, Penguins! Go Portland, Winterhawks! Go Baltimore, Oriels!  Go Baltimore, Ravens! Go Oregon State Beavers, baseball and football teams!   
 

On Aug 26, 2019, at 16:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:

I personally did not know about this one until the other one failed.
I was considering creating one myself because of the manner that the old one was managed.
Then the other one closed and someone informed me of this one.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

Brian,
I could not agree more.
Why people were so quick to recreate a group when this one was running fine is a mystery to me.


Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.
And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


James Homuth
 

This is actually the longest running list for JAWS I know of. It started I believe in the late 90’s or early 2000’s. This website alone has archives going back as far as 2011, when I hosted it myself. Freelists has older ones than that, and if you feel like giving yourself brain damage, I think Yahoo Groups still has the original. The only one I don’t have admin rights on is the Yahoo group—that’s before my time, but not by much. So, basically what I’m saying is clearly I need to get this list out more. LOL

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: August-26-19 7:44 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

I personally did not know about this one until the other one failed.

I was considering creating one myself because of the manner that the old one was managed.

Then the other one closed and someone informed me of this one.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:03 PM

Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

Brian,

I could not agree more.

Why people were so quick to recreate a group when this one was running fine is a mystery to me.

 

Richard

 

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 

 



On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.

And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


David Diamond
 

Well, speaking for myself, the moderator of the group determines whether I stay or leave. On one group that I am on with some of you, the moderator wants all the glory but seems to be unwilling to do any work. I was put on moderated status by a moderator that left.  No one knew why I was put on moderated status.  The narcistic moderator was unwilling to look into it however, their co-moderator was, and found out why it took sometimes a entire week for my posts to be posted. Why was I put on moderated status?  Because I foolishly praised the mods for the job they were doing and one of the mods decided I was brown nosing, so put me on moderated status.  Btw, the rules stated that list members were supposed to be informed of a violation of the rules. I was not informed of anything.  Just all of a sudden, my posts were taking hours or days to be posted. Oh, Richard, I love your tag line at the end of your messages.      

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: August 26, 2019 2:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

The only issue is that people can create groups almost at the drop of the hat.

I guess, if people decided to only join one group, eventually the other group would go away.

 

But, which group?

Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.

I know there are multiple groups out there for most every topic, but I personally only belong to I think 4 distinct groups.

Well, as far as I know, there are no officially sponsored groups for most things.

Anyone can start a group, so good luck with getting the number of groups narrowed down.

 

Richard

 

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 

 



On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Mario <mrb620@...> wrote:

I agree. there should be one list for JAWS, just like there's one for
NVDA, Windows 10, Thunderbird, etc.  questions.

------- Original Message --------
From: JM Casey [mailto:jmcasey@...]
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 26, 2019, 5:17 PM
Subject: how does one join the new JAWS list

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists
essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on
both/all of them, what’ll happen is that you’ll end up seeing the same
question repeated multiple times.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not
find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on
Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now
defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our
island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information
sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why
not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least
within any given language community? What am I missing?

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

          ~ Eric Hoffer






Glenn / Lenny
 


I personally did not know about this one until the other one failed.
I was considering creating one myself because of the manner that the old one was managed.
Then the other one closed and someone informed me of this one.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

Brian,
I could not agree more.
Why people were so quick to recreate a group when this one was running fine is a mystery to me.


Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.
And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Gerald Levy
 

Not any more.  There will soon be a second list devoted to NVDA, just as a second list has been created for JAWS users. Apparently, the creator of the new NVDA list, who has had a long history of being argumentative and confrontational on every list he belongs to, was stripped of his co-moderator status on the original NVDA list because of complaints from other list members and so, like the creator of the new JFW Users list, he decided to get even  and start his own NVDA list, where he can be as confrontational as he wants. I won't mention his name, but anyone who belongs to the Blind Tech or Tech Talk lists knows who I'm talking about.

Gerald

On 8/26/2019 5:34 PM, Mario wrote:
I agree. there should be one list for JAWS, just like there's one for
NVDA, Windows 10, Thunderbird, etc. questions.

------- Original Message --------
From: JM Casey [mailto:jmcasey@teksavvy.com]
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 26, 2019, 5:17 PM
Subject: how does one join the new JAWS list

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists
essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on
both/all of them, what’ll happen is that you’ll end up seeing the same
question repeated multiple times.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not
find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on
Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now
defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our
island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information
sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why
not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least
within any given language community? What am I missing?


Cristóbal
 

Same reason why I’m not signed up to every single social media service out there. At one point, you end up following the same people and same topics. Can also be applied for communication platforms. No matter if I have FB messenger, Skype or sign up to WhatsApp, it’s still the same folks in my contacts. How many ways do I need to contact you or vice versa?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 2:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.

And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Richard Turner
 

Brian,
I could not agree more.
Why people were so quick to recreate a group when this one was running fine is a mystery to me.


Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:54 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.
And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:42 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.
And for this I am grateful, as I do not want my support groups beholden to the companies that make any given product or service.  User groups need to allow users to be entirely free to criticize the maker of the product being discussed, provided it's constructive or brief venting.  Intractable rants don't help anyone and drive serious participants away.

I realize that there sometimes more than one group/list for a given product, and a lot of that can be the result of history.   But when you have several groups, covering the same territory in the same first language on the same venue, common sense dictates trying to integrate them.  In this case, it was a perfectly convenient time to do that, but apparently it won't happen secondary to the "rush to reconstitute" rather than coming into this fold.

Unless there is some compelling case, I stand against fragmentation of information sharing for a given arena/product on principle.  It makes it harder to find what you need to know.

And I hasten to add that this is, in no way, saying that this group is superior to any other on the same topic.  It's just that it is one with a large membership and well-established reputation and track record with regard to JAWS.  Others (and I have been on some, typically briefly) have paled in comparison in my opinion and when they dissolve it would be nice to try to encourage those displaced to transfer allegiances rather than setting up replacements.   If this were the group that had less than half the membership of "its next competitor" and it were to go out of existence, I'd certainly say, "Well, it's time to join the one that's still standing."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Richard Turner
 

The only issue is that people can create groups almost at the drop of the hat.
I guess, if people decided to only join one group, eventually the other group would go away.

But, which group?
Since, as far as know, there isn't an official group run by Freedom Scientific, nor one run by Mozilla for Thunderbird, etc.
I know there are multiple groups out there for most every topic, but I personally only belong to I think 4 distinct groups.
Well, as far as I know, there are no officially sponsored groups for most things.
Anyone can start a group, so good luck with getting the number of groups narrowed down.


Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 26, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Mario <mrb620@...> wrote:

I agree. there should be one list for JAWS, just like there's one for
NVDA, Windows 10, Thunderbird, etc.  questions.

------- Original Message --------
From: JM Casey [mailto:jmcasey@...]
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 26, 2019, 5:17 PM
Subject: how does one join the new JAWS list

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists
essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on
both/all of them, what’ll happen is that you’ll end up seeing the same
question repeated multiple times.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not
find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on
Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now
defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our
island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information
sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why
not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least
within any given language community? What am I missing?

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

          ~ Eric Hoffer







Mario
 

I agree. there should be one list for JAWS, just like there's one for
NVDA, Windows 10, Thunderbird, etc. questions.

------- Original Message --------
From: JM Casey [mailto:jmcasey@teksavvy.com]
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 26, 2019, 5:17 PM
Subject: how does one join the new JAWS list

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists
essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on
both/all of them, what’ll happen is that you’ll end up seeing the same
question repeated multiple times.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not
find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on
Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now
defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our
island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information
sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why
not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least
within any given language community? What am I missing?

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


cecropia64
 

well, you know the old adage, the grass is greener??? well, maybe that is it.?? problem is if all the info is the same, and it will be, i agree.?? what is the point??? oh well, onward and upward.


stew

On 8/26/2019 5:17 PM, JM Casey wrote:

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on both/all of them, what???ll happen is that you???ll end up seeing the same question repeated multiple times.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our island.?? Why on earth form another island, again, for information sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here??? Why not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least within any given language community? What am I missing?

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit,??Version 1903, Build 18362

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

~ Eric Hoffer


JM Casey
 

Sounds reasonable to me. Besides which, if there are 2+ lists essentially covering the same ground, and a bunch of people are on both/all of them, what’ll happen is that you’ll end up seeing the same question repeated multiple times.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: August 26, 2019 4:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least within any given language community? What am I missing?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


 

OK, I hope that our estimable group owner here on this group will not find what I'm about to do upsetting, but now I must:

Why, oh why, does there even need to be another JAWS users group on Groups.io?

It seems that all the refugees (for lack of a better term) from the now defunct group that have landed on our shores have been welcomed to our island.  Why on earth form another island, again, for information sharing about exactly the same software that we share about here?  Why not just come here and join our happy family?

What is the pressing need for JAWS user's groups two through N, at least within any given language community? What am I missing?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


David Diamond
 

Not sure of the subscribe info however, if you contact the owner at jfw-users+owner@groups.io
He can help you with this endeavor.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Hozefa Tambawala
Sent: August 25, 2019 8:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

Hi David,

Please share the subscription mail Id.

On 8/25/19, Jessica D <jldail13@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, How do I join?
I'm very sad to hear about the closure of the other jaws list.
Why did this happen?

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2019, at 10:47 PM, David & his pack of dogs
<myguidedogis@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is an email being circulated widely. Hello Lists,

Michael Capelle recently started the jfw-users@groups.io list in
response to the closure of the jaws-users-list@groups.io list. I am
the moderator of this new list and am seeking new members in order to
make it the best resource possible for JAWS information.
I will do my best to keep topics on point while encouraging
communication.
But we need as many JAWS savvy users as possible in order to have the
best knowledgebase. Hope to see you on the list.

Alan Lemly










--
"Life is like a piano.
White keys are happy moments
& Black keys are sad moments.
But remember both keys are played together to give sweet music."

"Focus on your abilities, not your disability."

Follow me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/starhoze

Skype ID:
star.hoze

Warm Regards,
Hozefa...


David Moore
 

Hi Jessica!

The subscription address for Mike Capelle’s JAWS list is:

Jfw-users+subscribe@groups.io

David Faren closed his list all of a sudden, because he said that people were giving him a very hard time with threatening emails and the like!

His list was getting too strict!

The new list is so much better already!

Almost 200 people have subscribed already!

Take care, Jessica!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Hozefa Tambawala
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how does one join the new JAWS list

 

Hi David,

 

Please share the subscription mail Id.

 

On 8/25/19, Jessica D <jldail13@...> wrote:

>> Hi, How do I join?

>> I'm very sad to hear about the closure of the other jaws list.

> Why did this happen?

> Thanks,

> Jessica

>> 

>> Sent from my iPhone

>> 

>> On Aug 24, 2019, at 10:47 PM, David & his pack of dogs

>> <myguidedogis@...> wrote:

>> 

>> Here is an email being circulated widely.  Hello Lists,

>> 

>> Michael Capelle recently started the jfw-users@groups.io list in response

>> to

>> the closure of the jaws-users-list@groups.io list. I am the moderator of

>> this new list and am seeking new members in order to make it the best

>> resource possible for JAWS information.

>> I will do my best to keep topics on point while encouraging

>> communication.

>> But we need as many JAWS savvy users as possible in order to have the

>> best

>> knowledgebase. Hope to see you on the list.

>> 

>> Alan Lemly

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

 

 

--

"Life is like a piano.

White keys are happy moments

& Black keys are sad moments.

But remember both keys are played together to give sweet music."

 

"Focus on your abilities, not your disability."

 

Follow me on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/starhoze

 

Skype ID:

star.hoze

 

Warm Regards,

Hozefa...

 

 

 


Hozefa Tambawala
 

Hi David,

Please share the subscription mail Id.

On 8/25/19, Jessica D <jldail13@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, How do I join?
I'm very sad to hear about the closure of the other jaws list.
Why did this happen?

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2019, at 10:47 PM, David & his pack of dogs
<myguidedogis@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is an email being circulated widely. Hello Lists,

Michael Capelle recently started the jfw-users@groups.io list in response
to
the closure of the jaws-users-list@groups.io list. I am the moderator of
this new list and am seeking new members in order to make it the best
resource possible for JAWS information.
I will do my best to keep topics on point while encouraging
communication.
But we need as many JAWS savvy users as possible in order to have the
best
knowledgebase. Hope to see you on the list.

Alan Lemly









--
"Life is like a piano.
White keys are happy moments
& Black keys are sad moments.
But remember both keys are played together to give sweet music."

"Focus on your abilities, not your disability."

Follow me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/starhoze

Skype ID:
star.hoze

Warm Regards,
Hozefa...


Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi, How do I join?
I'm very sad to hear about the closure of the other jaws list.
Why did this happen?

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2019, at 10:47 PM, David & his pack of dogs <myguidedogis@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is an email being circulated widely. Hello Lists,

Michael Capelle recently started the jfw-users@groups.io list in response to
the closure of the jaws-users-list@groups.io list. I am the moderator of
this new list and am seeking new members in order to make it the best
resource possible for JAWS information.
I will do my best to keep topics on point while encouraging communication.
But we need as many JAWS savvy users as possible in order to have the best
knowledgebase. Hope to see you on the list.

Alan Lemly