Topics

moderated Esoteric punctuation question.


fenderwal@...
 

Hi, folks.
 
I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.
 
Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.
 
Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?
 
Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.


Steve Matzura
 

Sorry, it's one of many such settings not included for user control. That, along with being able to construct dictionary pronunciation of foreign words JAWS just can't handle, or doesn't handle well. I think this latter is more an Eloquence thing than a JAWS thing, but then again, I have not seen this particular capability available in any other text-to-speech system except DECTalk, and even then, you get just so much and then there is no more. For example, I read a lot of things that have Japanese words and/or names  in them. No matter how I try to respell those, no text-to-speech system I have ever used has done what I would consider to be even a passable job at rendering these repronunciations.


On 8/17/2019 7:04 AM, fenderwal@... wrote:
Hi, folks.
 
I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.
 
Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.
 
Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?
 
Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.


Mike B
 

Hi Lou,
 
Here are a couple of things you can try to see if they help.  It's the same setting change, but 1 changes the setting per application and the other makes the say all change across all applications.

For an individual application:
1. While in the application / program press, Insert + V, to open quick settings.
2. Navigate to the, Say All options, and right arrow to open if closed.
3. Arrow down to, Say all reads by..., and here you press the spacebar to toggle through your choices.  Below are your choices.
 
Line without pauses
1 of 4
Line with pauses
2 of 4
Sentence
3 of 4
Paragraph
4 of 4
4. After making your selection tab to, Okay, press enter to save and close.
 
For all applications:
1. Open the Settings Center in either of these 2 ways.
A. Press, Insert / Jaws Key + 6, on the number row above the main keyboard.
B. Press, Insert / Jaws Key + F2, to open the, Jaws Manager, arrow down, to Settings Center, & press enter.
With the Settings Center open press, control, shift , + D, to open the Settings Center Default All Applications.
2. Down arrow to, Say All options, and right arrow to open.
3. Down arrow 1 time and you will find the same thing as in step# 3 from above, so use the steps from above to make changes.  If you make any changes tab to, Apply, press the spacebar, tab to, Okay, press enter to save and close.
 
Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!
I believe that everything happens for a reason. Usually, the reason is that somebody screwed up.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 4:04 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.
 
I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.
 
Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.
 
Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?
 
Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.


JM Casey
 

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So some synths will insert longer ones, others won’t. By default, the 1core voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don’t think Eloquence has anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this isn’t exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft voices.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of fenderwal@...
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

Hi, folks.

 

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

 

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

 

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

 

Thank you in advance for your help,

Lou N.


David Csercsics
 

Yes, all these human-sounding voices have long comma pauses, as well as other things. It's a shame, that for those that want it, the older synths aren't still available. Even the latest eSpeak-ng with rate boost enabled has odd distortion and clipping, particularly at the beginning of utterances. Otherwise it's fast and responsive compared to other options, but it's not nearly as responsive as older hardware synths. It's sad times, really.


Van Lant, Robin
 

I don’t think Vocalizer is any better.  Much of the time the pause is an acceptable level, but there are enough times when it’s almost as if there is no pause at all.  I’ll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find one there, but Vocalizer doesn’t pause as I would hope.   I’ll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So some synths will insert longer ones, others won’t. By default, the 1core voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don’t think Eloquence has anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this isn’t exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft voices.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of fenderwal@...
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

Hi, folks.

 

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

 

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

 

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

 

Thank you in advance for your help,

Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114


If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


Mario
 

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it
doesn't make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that
it's an NVDA issue? if not, what can I do about it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if
there is no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a
period and find one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause
between both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can
adjust this in a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think
Eloquence has anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate
(although I know this isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or
one of the Microsoft voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS
kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation
pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character
after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause
interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To
my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential
information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you
are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from
disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If
you received this communication in error, please contact the sender
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic
or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal
information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or
redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the
services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or
services from Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the
SUBJECT line.


JM Casey
 

I find that Vocalizer will not pause much after a period – if it is not followed by a capital letter. This is actually a good way for me to hear when I have mistyped. Now that I have a braille display though, such nuances don’t seem so necessary.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
Sent: August 19, 2019 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

I don’t think Vocalizer is any better.  Much of the time the pause is an acceptable level, but there are enough times when it’s almost as if there is no pause at all.  I’ll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find one there, but Vocalizer doesn’t pause as I would hope.   I’ll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So some synths will insert longer ones, others won’t. By default, the 1core voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don’t think Eloquence has anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this isn’t exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft voices.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of fenderwal@...
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

Hi, folks.

 

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

 

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

 

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

 

Thank you in advance for your help,

Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114


If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


netbat66
 

i know sighted people would complain about puntuation. But the only way i can get the vocalizer voices to pause at the end of a sentence is to use a comma instead of a period.
BTW.
i noticed that this message did pause on sentences.
so i investigated. grin. If you don't capatalize the first letter of the sentence jaws will not pause with the vocalizer voices.

-----Original Message-----
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
Sent: monday, August 19, 2019 7:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.



I don’t think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an acceptable level, but there are enough times when it’s almost as if there is no pause at all. I’ll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find one there, but Vocalizer doesn’t pause as I would hope. I’ll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.













From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.





I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So some synths will insert longer ones, others won’t. By default, the 1core voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don’t think Eloquence has anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this isn’t exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft voices.







From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of fenderwal@...
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.







Hi, folks.







I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries, and, a few puzzles.







Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.







Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?







Thank you in advance for your help,



Lou N.







This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114



If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


JM Casey
 

Yes, that's what I just said. If a capital letter is not seen after a period, it "assumes" that the period is present for some other purpose besides ending a sentence, and thus does not pause.\
See, it's encouraging us to follow proper grammar/language rules. A good thing, surely! 8grins*

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: August 19, 2019 1:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

i know sighted people would complain about puntuation. But the only way i can get the vocalizer voices to pause at the end of a sentence is to use a comma instead of a period.
BTW.
i noticed that this message did pause on sentences.
so i investigated. grin. If you don't capatalize the first letter of the sentence jaws will not pause with the vocalizer voices.

-----Original Message-----
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
Sent: monday, August 19, 2019 7:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.



I don’t think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it’s almost as if there is no
pause at all. I’ll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find one
there, but Vocalizer doesn’t pause as I would hope. I’ll play with the
recommended tweaks someone posted.













From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.





I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So some
synths will insert longer ones, others won’t. By default, the 1core voices from
Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between both period
and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in a very well
hidden and protected .ini file. I don’t think Eloquence has anything similar.
Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this isn’t exactly what
you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft voices.







From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.







Hi, folks.







I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries,
and, a few puzzles.







Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work
with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.







Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?







Thank you in advance for your help,



Lou N.







This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It
is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing
or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error,
please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety,
whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic
personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose
such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which
you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114



If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from
Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in
the SUBJECT line.


Mario
 

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after
a period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if
this is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read,
then why does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence
following a period and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it
doesn't make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that
it's an NVDA issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if
there is no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a
period and find one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause
between both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can
adjust this in a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think
Eloquence has anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate
(although I know this isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or
one of the Microsoft voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS
kind of rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation
pause intervals. With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character
after char.chr dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause
interval. This does not work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To
my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential
information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you
are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from
disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If
you received this communication in error, please contact the sender
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic
or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal
information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or
redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the
services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or
services from Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the
SUBJECT line.








.


JM Casey
 

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying,
distributing or using any of this information. If you received this
communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy
the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This
communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers
subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not
directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose
other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the
information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services
from Key send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.








.


Marty Hutchings
 

I remember back in my keyboarding class that you are to put 2 spaces after a period at the end of each sentence. I notice too many times lately in things that I read that there is only 1 space after the period. this could make some difference.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13

-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying,
distributing or using any of this information. If you received this
communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy
the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This
communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers
subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not
directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose
other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the
information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services
from Key send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.








.


Richard Turner
 

Good point Marty. That was the standard. But, like many things, standards have slipped. 
But, the synthesizers may have been programmed under the old standard.
It would be worth someone who is having these issues to write a few sentences with each sentence separated by one space and then some separated with two spaces and see if they have more natural pauses when two spaces separate them.


Richard

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 


On Aug 19, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Marty Hutchings <mhutchings152730@...> wrote:

I remember back in my keyboarding class that you are to put 2 spaces after a period at the end of each sentence.  I notice too many times lately in things that I read that there is only 1 space after the period.  this could make some difference.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13
-----Original Message----- From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better.  Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all.  I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
  I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying,
distributing or using any of this information. If you received this
communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy
the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This
communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers
subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not
directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose
other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the
information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services
from Key send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.








.












JM Casey
 

I don’t believe I have ever heard a synth take the number of spaces into account in this way. The reason for this is that some people still have the habit of leaving two spaces after a period. I don’t think this was ever the standard everywhere, but certainly in for example letter writing and other types of documents. I believe in printed books, a single space has been the standard for a really long time.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: August 19, 2019 4:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

 

Good point Marty. That was the standard. But, like many things, standards have slipped. 

But, the synthesizers may have been programmed under the old standard.

It would be worth someone who is having these issues to write a few sentences with each sentence separated by one space and then some separated with two spaces and see if they have more natural pauses when two spaces separate them.

 

Richard

 

Always look out for #1, and be careful not to step in #2. 

 



On Aug 19, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Marty Hutchings <mhutchings152730@...> wrote:

I remember back in my keyboarding class that you are to put 2 spaces after a period at the end of each sentence.  I notice too many times lately in things that I read that there is only 1 space after the period.  this could make some difference.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13
-----Original Message----- From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better.  Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all.  I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
  I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying,
distributing or using any of this information. If you received this
communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy
the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This
communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers
subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not
directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose
other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the
information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services
from Key send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.








.











JM Casey
 

Hi.

At the risk of going a bit off-topic for the list -- how long ago was your
keyboarding class?
The reason people used to put two spaces after periods had to do with manual
typewriters and the "monospace" font style they used. Every character took
up exactly the same amount of horizontal space on a piece of paper, so as a
result, it could sometimes be difficult to tell there was a space at all at
the end of some sentences unless the typist used two of them. This has
changed since the advent of electric typewriters, and, indeed, computers,
with their myriad numbers of proportional font styles. In fact though, the
so-called two space rule you would have learned in keyboarding class was
introduced *only* because of the typewriter. You would not have seen a
professionally typeset book done this way.

The tone is maybe a little bit strident, but this article from Slate
explains the history of it all pretty well.
https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/two-spaces-after-a-period-why-you-shoul
d-never-ever-do-it.html

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Hutchings
Sent: August 19, 2019 4:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I remember back in my keyboarding class that you are to put 2 spaces after a
period at the end of each sentence. I notice too many times lately in
things that I read that there is only 1 space after the period. this could
make some difference.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers,
against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the
spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist
in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13
-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying,
distributing or using any of this information. If you received this
communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy
the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This
communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers
subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not
directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose
other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the
information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services
from Key send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.








.


netbat66
 

i stopped useing capital letters years ago because this is considered yelling at the readers. grin

-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 11:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

Yes, that's what I just said. If a capital letter is not seen after a period, it "assumes" that the period is present for some other purpose besides ending a sentence, and thus does not pause.\
See, it's encouraging us to follow proper grammar/language rules. A good thing, surely! 8grins*


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: August 19, 2019 1:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

i know sighted people would complain about puntuation. But the only way i can get the vocalizer voices to pause at the end of a sentence is to use a comma instead of a period.
BTW.
i noticed that this message did pause on sentences.
so i investigated. grin. If you don't capatalize the first letter of the sentence jaws will not pause with the vocalizer voices.

-----Original Message-----
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
Sent: monday, August 19, 2019 7:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.



I don’t think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it’s almost as if there is no
pause at all. I’ll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find one
there, but Vocalizer doesn’t pause as I would hope. I’ll play with the
recommended tweaks someone posted.













From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.





I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So some
synths will insert longer ones, others won’t. By default, the 1core voices from
Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between both period
and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in a very well
hidden and protected .ini file. I don’t think Eloquence has anything similar.
Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this isn’t exactly what
you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft voices.







From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.







Hi, folks.







I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting discoveries,
and, a few puzzles.







Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not work
with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.







Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?







Thank you in advance for your help,



Lou N.







This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It
is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing
or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error,
please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety,
whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic
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Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose
such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which
you are receiving the information.

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If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from
Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in
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Marty Hutchings
 

Firefox said that this is a 404 page.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13

-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 4:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi.

At the risk of going a bit off-topic for the list -- how long ago was your
keyboarding class?
The reason people used to put two spaces after periods had to do with manual
typewriters and the "monospace" font style they used. Every character took
up exactly the same amount of horizontal space on a piece of paper, so as a
result, it could sometimes be difficult to tell there was a space at all at
the end of some sentences unless the typist used two of them. This has
changed since the advent of electric typewriters, and, indeed, computers,
with their myriad numbers of proportional font styles. In fact though, the
so-called two space rule you would have learned in keyboarding class was
introduced *only* because of the typewriter. You would not have seen a
professionally typeset book done this way.

The tone is maybe a little bit strident, but this article from Slate
explains the history of it all pretty well.
https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/two-spaces-after-a-period-why-you-shoul
d-never-ever-do-it.html


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Hutchings
Sent: August 19, 2019 4:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I remember back in my keyboarding class that you are to put 2 spaces after a
period at the end of each sentence. I notice too many times lately in
things that I read that there is only 1 space after the period. this could
make some difference.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers,
against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the
spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist
in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13
-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying,
distributing or using any of this information. If you received this
communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy
the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This
communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers
subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not
directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose
other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the
information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114
If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services
from Key send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional
E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.








.


 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:54 PM, Marty Hutchings wrote:
Firefox said that this is a 404 page.
That's because the e-mail client broke the full link across two lines, so when you're activating it's not got the full URL.

Here it is, naked:  https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/two-spaces-after-a-period-why-you-should-never-ever-do-it.html

and, in case this should be broken, too, as click through text:  Space Invaders:  Why you should never, ever use two spaces after a period.

I happen to disagree, but hey.  I still use two spaces after the end of a sentence as I still find it easier to read text, even word processed text, where that convention is followed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer


Marty Hutchings
 

Thanks brian.  This one worked.  What an issue.  One more thing to bring division among folks.  Rediculas!
 
Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13
 

Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.
 
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:54 PM, Marty Hutchings wrote:
Firefox said that this is a 404 page.
That's because the e-mail client broke the full link across two lines, so when you're activating it's not got the full URL.

Here it is, naked:  https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/two-spaces-after-a-period-why-you-should-never-ever-do-it.html

and, in case this should be broken, too, as click through text:  Space Invaders:  Why you should never, ever use two spaces after a period.

I happen to disagree, but hey.  I still use two spaces after the end of a sentence as I still find it easier to read text, even word processed text, where that convention is followed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.

         ~ Eric Hoffer