Topics

Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List


Dan Longmore
 

Hi,

  I am using Win 10 and Outlook 2016 and , thus far, the only way I have found to scrool the list is with JAWS cursor.  Using that cursor I can then edit or delete from list.  I can add using PC cursor. 

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 3:47 PM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: FW: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

            I’m re-sending, since I haven’t gotten a response thus far.

 

If it helps, I am using Windows 10 with the latest build of Jaws 2019.

 

See below for more details.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: Tom Behler <tombehler@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:49 AM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hello.

 

Does anyone have some good techniques for navigating entries in an already-created e-mail group list?

 

I used to be able to arrow down through the list with no problem, but that has changed with Outlook 2016 and the last few Jaws updates.

 

I can still use my Jaws cursor, but navigation is a bit awkward, and I can’t cover the entire list that way.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Tom Behler

 

 


Tom Behler
 

Dan:

 

If I use the Jaws cursor, I can only get part of the list.

 

Is there a way to use the Jaws cursor and be able to navigate the entire group list?

 

Thanks!

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hi,

  I am using Win 10 and Outlook 2016 and , thus far, the only way I have found to scrool the list is with JAWS cursor.  Using that cursor I can then edit or delete from list.  I can add using PC cursor. 

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 3:47 PM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: FW: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

            I’m re-sending, since I haven’t gotten a response thus far.

 

If it helps, I am using Windows 10 with the latest build of Jaws 2019.

 

See below for more details.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: Tom Behler <tombehler@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:49 AM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hello.

 

Does anyone have some good techniques for navigating entries in an already-created e-mail group list?

 

I used to be able to arrow down through the list with no problem, but that has changed with Outlook 2016 and the last few Jaws updates.

 

I can still use my Jaws cursor, but navigation is a bit awkward, and I can’t cover the entire list that way.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Tom Behler

 

 


Dan Longmore
 

Tom,

  I use JAWS cursor and then arrow key to get through list.  Once on a name I hit enter if I want to edit that name.  Arrow keys take me through list although I am not certain if the length of list matters.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Dan:

 

If I use the Jaws cursor, I can only get part of the list.

 

Is there a way to use the Jaws cursor and be able to navigate the entire group list?

 

Thanks!

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hi,

  I am using Win 10 and Outlook 2016 and , thus far, the only way I have found to scrool the list is with JAWS cursor.  Using that cursor I can then edit or delete from list.  I can add using PC cursor. 

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 3:47 PM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: FW: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

            I’m re-sending, since I haven’t gotten a response thus far.

 

If it helps, I am using Windows 10 with the latest build of Jaws 2019.

 

See below for more details.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: Tom Behler <tombehler@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:49 AM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hello.

 

Does anyone have some good techniques for navigating entries in an already-created e-mail group list?

 

I used to be able to arrow down through the list with no problem, but that has changed with Outlook 2016 and the last few Jaws updates.

 

I can still use my Jaws cursor, but navigation is a bit awkward, and I can’t cover the entire list that way.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Tom Behler

 

 


Tom Behler
 

Thanks, Dan.

 

The list I’m working with has about 50 members, and I can’t navigate through the entire thing via the Jaws cursor.

 

It used to be so easy when I could use the PC cursor and the arrow keys.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Tom,

  I use JAWS cursor and then arrow key to get through list.  Once on a name I hit enter if I want to edit that name.  Arrow keys take me through list although I am not certain if the length of list matters.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Dan:

 

If I use the Jaws cursor, I can only get part of the list.

 

Is there a way to use the Jaws cursor and be able to navigate the entire group list?

 

Thanks!

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hi,

  I am using Win 10 and Outlook 2016 and , thus far, the only way I have found to scrool the list is with JAWS cursor.  Using that cursor I can then edit or delete from list.  I can add using PC cursor. 

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 3:47 PM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: FW: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

            I’m re-sending, since I haven’t gotten a response thus far.

 

If it helps, I am using Windows 10 with the latest build of Jaws 2019.

 

See below for more details.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: Tom Behler <tombehler@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:49 AM
To: jfw list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

Hello.

 

Does anyone have some good techniques for navigating entries in an already-created e-mail group list?

 

I used to be able to arrow down through the list with no problem, but that has changed with Outlook 2016 and the last few Jaws updates.

 

I can still use my Jaws cursor, but navigation is a bit awkward, and I can’t cover the entire list that way.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Tom Behler

 

 


 

I wonder if there is a bug in Outlook 2016, or possibly JAWS (and NVDA, too).

When I open a Contact Group, whether with a screen reader on or not, I can easily navigate through each and every member with the up and down arrow buttons.  The difference being that the screen reader is not tracking that movement up and down through the list at all corresponding to where Outlook itself has focus at that moment, which is odd.

I cannot imagine this behavior is intentional, and since it's occurring in NVDA, and it sounds like the same thing is happening in JAWS, I wonder if Outlook 2016 is somehow not exposing the fact that you've changed focus from one row/member to another in the list of members of a Contact Group.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

As a quick follow-up, this appears to be an issue of very longstanding.  There has been an issue open for NVDA (which describes exactly the same issue that's reported here, and actually includes a note that it happens under JAWS, too), that was opened all the way back in 2012.

This has been haunting screen readers through multiple Outlook versions going as far back as Outlook 2007.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Tom Behler
 

So, I suspect that calling FS won’t do much good, other than to reinforce the existence of the problem?

 

Very disappointing!

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 11:27 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

As a quick follow-up, this appears to be an issue of very longstanding.  There has been an issue open for NVDA (which describes exactly the same issue that's reported here, and actually includes a note that it happens under JAWS, too), that was opened all the way back in 2012.

This has been haunting screen readers through multiple Outlook versions going as far back as Outlook 2007.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 11:44 AM, Tom Behler wrote:
So, I suspect that calling FS won’t do much good, other than to reinforce the existence of the problem?
It never hurts to cage rattle, though.

As I've often said, with issues like this "the fault" generally lies with the screen reader or the software it's being used with, but seldom both.  From what I've been able to dig up my gut is telling me it's "an Outlook side" issue, and so FS really can't fix it.

Still, MS has shown significantly more interest in accessibility issues in general over the last few years, and the screen reader developers have direct contact with Microsoft's developers.  Sometimes trying to raise the visibility of an "old problem" can make it new-ish again.  It certainly won't hurt.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Tom Behler
 

I hear you, Brian.

 

I’ll try to give them a call tomorrow.

 

If I find out  anything definitive, I’ll post to the list.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 12:02 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 11:44 AM, Tom Behler wrote:

So, I suspect that calling FS won’t do much good, other than to reinforce the existence of the problem?

It never hurts to cage rattle, though.

As I've often said, with issues like this "the fault" generally lies with the screen reader or the software it's being used with, but seldom both.  From what I've been able to dig up my gut is telling me it's "an Outlook side" issue, and so FS really can't fix it.

Still, MS has shown significantly more interest in accessibility issues in general over the last few years, and the screen reader developers have direct contact with Microsoft's developers.  Sometimes trying to raise the visibility of an "old problem" can make it new-ish again.  It certainly won't hurt.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Jason White
 

Using the latest Microsoft Outlook from Office 365 (under Windows 10, JAWS 2019 with latest update), if I access a contact group inside the Address Book, up/down arrow keys move the focus between the names of group members. The braille display is updated as I move the focus, but nothing is spoken. Pressing Insert+numpad-up-arrow speaks the currently focused list entry, however.

 

I suspect it’s a JAWS bug, since the braille output is properly tracking the focus. I’m not sure whether that’s the same interface which Brian was testing, though.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 10:22 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating Entries In An E-mail Group List

 

I wonder if there is a bug in Outlook 2016, or possibly JAWS (and NVDA, too).

When I open a Contact Group, whether with a screen reader on or not, I can easily navigate through each and every member with the up and down arrow buttons.  The difference being that the screen reader is not tracking that movement up and down through the list at all corresponding to where Outlook itself has focus at that moment, which is odd.

I cannot imagine this behavior is intentional, and since it's occurring in NVDA, and it sounds like the same thing is happening in JAWS, I wonder if Outlook 2016 is somehow not exposing the fact that you've changed focus from one row/member to another in the list of members of a Contact Group.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore