Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer


 

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Chris
 

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!



On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


JM Casey
 

Probably would be a PR disaster if they did that, I’m guessing.

 

It’s the only browser allowed at my workplace to this day. Yes, this has been brought up, but they’re not budging.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via Groups.Io
Sent: February 8, 2019 7:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Richard Turner
 

Our client database only works with IE. Talk about out of date.
At least we can use other browsers for everything else.
Richard


The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -- Alice Walker



On Feb 8, 2019, at 3:49 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Maria Campbell
 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.



Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!



On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Pat Seed
 


Not to mention how much trouble we have had with the updates. I had trouble with the updates this week, and there was no way I was going to be able to get through all the screens they had with wanting me to accept or not accept this and that about Microsoft. I could not even get Narrator turned on to go through them, no how. Fortunately, I was able to get someone to help, but only because they were coming to help me that day anyway. The only thing that I could do is shut the computer down with (windows x) and (u).
Blessings and All the Very Best,
Pat
Seed

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.



Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:
So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!



On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 10:35 AM, Maria Campbell wrote:
They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!
So?  Chrome has dominated the market for several years now, having over 3/4 of all users.  Microsoft got smart and decided to ditch Edge (as it is implemented now) entirely in favor of a Chromium-based browser (and Chrome is one of those).

You have options, lots of other options.  It's not up to Microsoft to provide all of them.  There was a time when no web browser came with Windows, and it was hugely controversial when Internet Explorer was implemented as part of the Windows OS rather than as a completely freestanding application program.

Software has a service life.  There's nothing wrong with Microsoft, or anyone else, pointing that out to people who clutch on to dying or dead software far past its expiration date.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Dan Longmore
 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Dan Longmore
 

At least IE does not track every item like Chrome.

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 7:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Probably would be a PR disaster if they did that, I’m guessing.

 

It’s the only browser allowed at my workplace to this day. Yes, this has been brought up, but they’re not budging.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via Groups.Io
Sent: February 8, 2019 7:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Richard Turner
 

That is why I was so upset when Vispero bought out AI Squared and dumped Window-Eyes; the only true competition to Jaws.

But, Jaws has its very good points and Im learning to live with it and hoping Narrator can continue to improve, along with NVDA.

 

Richard

 

Richard

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


JM Casey
 

Haha, yes…I seem to recall using netscape with JAWS at some point!

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: February 9, 2019 10:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 10:35 AM, Maria Campbell wrote:

They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

So?  Chrome has dominated the market for several years now, having over 3/4 of all users.  Microsoft got smart and decided to ditch Edge (as it is implemented now) entirely in favor of a Chromium-based browser (and Chrome is one of those).

You have options, lots of other options.  It's not up to Microsoft to provide all of them.  There was a time when no web browser came with Windows, and it was hugely controversial when Internet Explorer was implemented as part of the Windows OS rather than as a completely freestanding application program.

Software has a service life.  There's nothing wrong with Microsoft, or anyone else, pointing that out to people who clutch on to dying or dead software far past its expiration date.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:07 AM, Richard Turner wrote:
That is why I was so upset when Vispero bought out AI Squared and dumped Window-Eyes; the only true competition to Jaws
I hate to say it, but if you considered Window-Eyes to be "the only true competition to Jaws" then they had (and have) no real competition.  Window-Eyes was to the screen reader market much like what MS-Edge is to the web browser market - a distant also-ran.

This is not a comment about Window-Eyes functionality or utility, but this acquisition would and could never have taken place had AI Squared fought it, and they weren't about to fight it because they simply weren't winning in the marketplace.

I'd say that NVDA is giving JAWS a better run for its money (while not demanding any in return) than Window-Eyes did.   As of the release of Version 1809 of Windows 10 Microsoft Narrator has announced itself as a very serious competitor to any other screen reader, and Microsoft is far from "done" with Narrator yet.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

Can you explain more what you mean by “after Microsoft has been breaking Skype”?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Melissa Stott <mstott69@...>
 

They will have to improve Microsoft Edge drastically before I use is.  So far, I cannot stand it!

 

Melissa

 

From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Melissa Stott <mstott69@...>
 

Agreed!

 

Melissa

 

From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Richard Turner
 

Brian,

I will agree to disagree about Window-Eyes, but I have some information you may not that is not appropriate for this list.

 

IN my opinion, Narrator has a good chance of competing with Jaws because of their team and that they are working from the inside, much like VoiceOver for Apple.

 

Enough said.

 

Richard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 9:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:07 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

That is why I was so upset when Vispero bought out AI Squared and dumped Window-Eyes; the only true competition to Jaws

I hate to say it, but if you considered Window-Eyes to be "the only true competition to Jaws" then they had (and have) no real competition.  Window-Eyes was to the screen reader market much like what MS-Edge is to the web browser market - a distant also-ran.

This is not a comment about Window-Eyes functionality or utility, but this acquisition would and could never have taken place had AI Squared fought it, and they weren't about to fight it because they simply weren't winning in the marketplace.

I'd say that NVDA is giving JAWS a better run for its money (while not demanding any in return) than Window-Eyes did.   As of the release of Version 1809 of Windows 10 Microsoft Narrator has announced itself as a very serious competitor to any other screen reader, and Microsoft is far from "done" with Narrator yet.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Dan Longmore
 

Ok, perhaps “awful” was not the best choice but if any product behaved like JAWS in the mainstream business world it would be unacceptable.  Yes, Vespero is dealing with many changes yet without serious competition there is no incentive to be the best.  Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Melissa Stott
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:23 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Agreed!

 

Melissa

 

From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Dan Longmore
 

For years I worked with a programmer and , barring, major changes if software works once it will always work.  JAWS breaks that rule.  That is what I mean by reliability.  JAWS is not consistent each time it interacts with a program.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

“if software works once it will always work”

I am sorry Dan, but that is the funniest statement I have heard in a long time.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:49 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

For years I worked with a programmer and , barring, major changes if software works once it will always work.  JAWS breaks that rule.  That is what I mean by reliability.  JAWS is not consistent each time it interacts with a program.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore