speaking passwords


 

I have been using Roboform for probably 15 years and I don't recall a password ever magically disappearing.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 2:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

at least when i can hear what i type i know when i have made a mistake and
backspace to retype the characters before i send them.
and with most sites you only get 3 chances before you are locked out of your
account.
when i got locked out of kiaser site i had to wait a week for them to snale
mail me a tempory password to reset my account.
password managers?
what good are they when they forget the passwords they have stored in them?
this happened several times a month when i was useing lastpass. no thanks. had
to request a account password reset each time this happened.


-----Original Message-----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



People are under the misconception that if you can hear your password as you
type it, you’ll somehow magically be a better typist or make less typos in this
particular field. Yeah. No . . . You’ll at best only hear yourself make a typo
or more likely second guess what you typed.

This really is much ado about nothing. We make typos. Sighted folks make typos.
This won’t be some sort of magic bullet.

And again, folks should be using some sort of password manager anyway.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords





Unfortunately, I have had happen several times, when I am in the proper
password field where the password is being spoken as I type and I have to tab
and shift to correct that, probably a focus issue, but I don’t like it when it
happens.







From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords







I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters. When typed as pass
words. The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being
an option is this: There are times I find myself in a user name form field.
Rather than in the pass word form field. In fact, I did so today. When I
heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong
form field. Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar
problem. Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they
were. Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?



----- Original Message -----



From: Bill White



To: main@jfw.groups.io



Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM



Subject: Re: speaking passwords







By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen,
only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo
characters.



Bill White

billwhite92701@dslextreme.com



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not. And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to
VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to
be accidentally turned on. That alone is reason enough on security grounds to
say, "No"

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the
right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


Jeremy <jeremy.richards7@...>
 

In my experience, I can usually tell when I have incorrectly entered my password, so I simply select all, delete, and type the password once again. I don't have to leave the edit field at all so its all incredibly easy to fix typing errors in a password field.

As for password managers, there's several of them, so LastPass isn't your only option. I really like KeePass and have been using it for about 8 years problem-free. KeePass has never failed me.

Most of the time, its user error or the user's lack of experience with a software product which can explain problems with an application.

HTH

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 2:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

at least when i can hear what i type i know when i have made a mistake and backspace to retype the characters before i send them.
and with most sites you only get 3 chances before you are locked out of your account.
when i got locked out of kiaser site i had to wait a week for them to snale mail me a tempory password to reset my account.
password managers?
what good are they when they forget the passwords they have stored in them?
this happened several times a month when i was useing lastpass. no thanks. had to request a account password reset each time this happened.


-----Original Message-----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



People are under the misconception that if you can hear your password as you
type it, you’ll somehow magically be a better typist or make less typos in this
particular field. Yeah. No . . . You’ll at best only hear yourself make a typo
or more likely second guess what you typed.

This really is much ado about nothing. We make typos. Sighted folks make typos.
This won’t be some sort of magic bullet.

And again, folks should be using some sort of password manager anyway.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords





Unfortunately, I have had happen several times, when I am in the proper
password field where the password is being spoken as I type and I have to tab
and shift to correct that, probably a focus issue, but I don’t like it when it
happens.







From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords







I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters. When typed as pass
words. The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being
an option is this: There are times I find myself in a user name form field.
Rather than in the pass word form field. In fact, I did so today. When I
heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong
form field. Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar
problem. Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they
were. Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?



----- Original Message -----



From: Bill White



To: main@jfw.groups.io



Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM



Subject: Re: speaking passwords







By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen,
only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo
characters.



Bill White

billwhite92701@dslextreme.com



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not. And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to
VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to
be accidentally turned on. That alone is reason enough on security grounds to
say, "No"

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the
right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


Cristóbal
 

Yeah well... Don't know what to tell you. Can't recall the last time if at all I've had an issue with 1Password forgetting a password. Not saying it hasn’t' happened or that it's possible, but considering the sheer number of times I log into God knows how many sites and services a day be it on either one of my computers or iPhone, if there's a random hiccup every so often, then I can't say it would be enough to get my undies all in a bunch. And if it's that much of an issue, then maybe consider switching products. Not the method per say. Otherwise, good luck on not getting hacked or a service's user info compromised or losing your list of saved passwords etc. Sure, there's always going to be an exception to the rule or random outlier scenario, but enough to change a fundamental security function/behavior? I'm not holding my breath.
Funny that. I don't even know my Kaiser PW. Why? Because I use a password manager. I find it more surprising that a major service like that still uses snail mail for a password reset type of deal. I mean, who is still doing that? And being locked out of your online account isnt' the same as being locked out of your account/info.
Anyway . . . all this really is like drowning in a glass of water.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 2:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

at least when i can hear what i type i know when i have made a mistake and backspace to retype the characters before i send them.
and with most sites you only get 3 chances before you are locked out of your account.
when i got locked out of kiaser site i had to wait a week for them to snale mail me a tempory password to reset my account.
password managers?
what good are they when they forget the passwords they have stored in them?
this happened several times a month when i was useing lastpass. no thanks. had to request a account password reset each time this happened.


-----Original Message-----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



People are under the misconception that if you can hear your password as you
type it, you’ll somehow magically be a better typist or make less typos in this
particular field. Yeah. No . . . You’ll at best only hear yourself make a typo
or more likely second guess what you typed.

This really is much ado about nothing. We make typos. Sighted folks make typos.
This won’t be some sort of magic bullet.

And again, folks should be using some sort of password manager anyway.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords





Unfortunately, I have had happen several times, when I am in the proper
password field where the password is being spoken as I type and I have to tab
and shift to correct that, probably a focus issue, but I don’t like it when it
happens.







From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords







I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters. When typed as pass
words. The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being
an option is this: There are times I find myself in a user name form field.
Rather than in the pass word form field. In fact, I did so today. When I
heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong
form field. Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar
problem. Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they
were. Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?



----- Original Message -----



From: Bill White



To: main@jfw.groups.io



Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM



Subject: Re: speaking passwords







By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen,
only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo
characters.



Bill White

billwhite92701@dslextreme.com



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not. And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to
VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to
be accidentally turned on. That alone is reason enough on security grounds to
say, "No"

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the
right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


netbat66
 

at least when i can hear what i type i know when i have made a mistake and backspace to retype the characters before i send them.
and with most sites you only get 3 chances before you are locked out of your account.
when i got locked out of kiaser site i had to wait a week for them to snale mail me a tempory password to reset my account.
password managers?
what good are they when they forget the passwords they have stored in them?
this happened several times a month when i was useing lastpass. no thanks. had to request a account password reset each time this happened.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



People are under the misconception that if you can hear your password as you type it, you’ll somehow magically be a better typist or make less typos in this particular field. Yeah. No . . . You’ll at best only hear yourself make a typo or more likely second guess what you typed.

This really is much ado about nothing. We make typos. Sighted folks make typos. This won’t be some sort of magic bullet.

And again, folks should be using some sort of password manager anyway.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords





Unfortunately, I have had happen several times, when I am in the proper password field where the password is being spoken as I type and I have to tab and shift to correct that, probably a focus issue, but I don’t like it when it happens.







From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords







I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters. When typed as pass words. The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being an option is this: There are times I find myself in a user name form field. Rather than in the pass word form field. In fact, I did so today. When I heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong form field. Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar problem. Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they were. Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?



----- Original Message -----



From: Bill White



To: main@jfw.groups.io



Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM



Subject: Re: speaking passwords







By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.



Bill White

billwhite92701@dslextreme.com



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords



On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not. And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on. That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No"

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


Cristóbal
 

People are under the misconception that if you can hear your password as you type it, you’ll somehow magically be a better typist or make less typos in this particular field. Yeah. No . . . You’ll at best only hear yourself make a typo or more likely second guess what you typed.

This really is much ado about nothing. We make typos. Sighted folks make typos. This won’t be some sort of magic bullet.

And again, folks should be using some sort of password manager anyway.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 1:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

Unfortunately, I have had happen several times, when I am in the proper password field where the password is being spoken as I type and I have to tab and shift to correct that, probably a focus issue, but I don’t like it when it happens.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters.  When typed as pass words.  The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being an option is this:  There are times I find myself in a user name form field.  Rather than in the pass word form field.  In fact, I did so today.  When I heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong form field.  Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar problem.  Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they were.  Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill White

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not.   And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on.  That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No"
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Steve
 

Unfortunately, I have had happen several times, when I am in the proper password field where the password is being spoken as I type and I have to tab and shift to correct that, probably a focus issue, but I don’t like it when it happens.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters.  When typed as pass words.  The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being an option is this:  There are times I find myself in a user name form field.  Rather than in the pass word form field.  In fact, I did so today.  When I heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong form field.  Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar problem.  Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they were.  Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill White

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not.   And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on.  That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No"
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Jeremy <jeremy.richards7@...>
 

Hi Netbat,

Using JAWS, try activating the password edit field (any edit field) then press Insert+2 until you hear "None." You can now enter a password and not hear any feedback whatsoever.

You are activating the JAWS "Typing echo setting."

You will likely have to return the setting back to the way it was before you modified it. Simply press and hold the Jawskey then press the #2 repeatedly until you find the setting of your choice.

To make life easier on yourself, you should find a website for which you are asked to enter a password and practice entering the password while JAWS is conveying "star, star, star). At some point you will get use to it. There are thousands of JAWS users out there, and this is not a prevalent problem.

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 4:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

been there. did that.
i use window eyes for passwords then reload jaws.
a complete waste of time when they could give us the option to turn keypresses on or off in settings.
they could set it up so it needed a password to change this setting. then only the administrator would be able to change it.
this would meet the vfo criteria for security in the work place.




-----Original Message-----
From: Feliciano G
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 2:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords




For your security, speaking passwords is not available on some screen readers
like JAWS for Windows. A workaround that sometimes works is to type the
password on your choice of word processor and then copy and paste it onto the
password textfield. #Privacy #TypingEcho

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE
www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v


On Aug 17, 2018, at 11:50 PM, netbat66 <netbat66@gmail.com> wrote:


because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star
star star with every key press.

-----Original Message----- From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.


David & his pack of dogs
 

It was indeed an African gray and yes they do have the ability to mimic anything one guy dog users told her doc to go to the bathroom and the African gray mimicked her voice so the guy dog dropped his load in the middle of the floor


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 8:49:22 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords
 
On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 03:31 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
Here is a true story. 
And I have no doubt it is true if the parrot was an Amazon or African Gray, particularly the latter.  I have two parrots, a blue and gold macaw and an African gray, that are both rescues.  Pepper, the gray, when we got him could and did produce the answering machine messages from his former owner as if he were a tape recorder.  I cannot imagine how long his previous owner must have kept messages before deleting them, as they don't learn anything without hearing it again and again and practicing (and you can hear when they're doing that).

I'm sure if I kept any screen reader on for long enough, and on the same document, he'd start "reading" that document at random in the voice used by the screen reader.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


netbat66
 

been there. did that.
i use window eyes for passwords then reload jaws.
a complete waste of time when they could give us the option to turn keypresses on or off in settings.
they could set it up so it needed a password to change this setting. then only the administrator would be able to change it.
this would meet the vfo criteria for security in the work place.

-----Original Message-----
From: Feliciano G
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 2:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords




For your security, speaking passwords is not available on some screen readers like JAWS for Windows. A workaround that sometimes works is to type the password on your choice of word processor and then copy and paste it onto the password textfield. #Privacy #TypingEcho

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v


On Aug 17, 2018, at 11:50 PM, netbat66 <netbat66@gmail.com> wrote:


because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star star star with every key press.

-----Original Message----- From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.


Feliciano G
 

For your security, speaking passwords is not available on some screen readers like JAWS for Windows. A workaround that sometimes works is to type the password on your choice of word processor and then copy and paste it onto the password textfield. #Privacy #TypingEcho 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v 


On Aug 17, 2018, at 11:50 PM, netbat66 <netbat66@...> wrote:

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star star star with every key press.

-----Original Message----- From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in.  I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.




















 

On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 03:31 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
Here is a true story. 
And I have no doubt it is true if the parrot was an Amazon or African Gray, particularly the latter.  I have two parrots, a blue and gold macaw and an African gray, that are both rescues.  Pepper, the gray, when we got him could and did produce the answering machine messages from his former owner as if he were a tape recorder.  I cannot imagine how long his previous owner must have kept messages before deleting them, as they don't learn anything without hearing it again and again and practicing (and you can hear when they're doing that).

I'm sure if I kept any screen reader on for long enough, and on the same document, he'd start "reading" that document at random in the voice used by the screen reader.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


David & his pack of dogs
 

As a method of levity on this topic.  Here is a true story.  A man had a parrot and the man gave his credit card # over the phone to an agency.  As time went by he sold the parrot to someone else.  Thankfully she was a Bank of America employee.  Why?  Because the parrot resighted the man’s credit card number verbatim including the security code on the back to her. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Stevens
Sent: August 18, 2018 9:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

That is quite different than not being able to type the password due to blindness or lack of typing skills. And in your case I wouldn’t have hired you in the first place. I ran an IT business and we all did a lot of typing .

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

Let us see I am a former aerospace Engineer and hold a masters in

computer science.  My old fingers are stiff in my old age from all the

typing I have done in the past.

 

On 8/18/2018 7:50 PM, Gene Stevens wrote:

> As a blind person and former employer there is no way I’d allow this at

> my work place. If you can’t remember and type your password well enough

> to not hear it echoed back to you you aren’t computer literate enough to

> hold the job you have.

>

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

> Windows 10

>

> *From: *Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>

> *Sent: *Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:48 PM

> *To: *main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>

> *Subject: *Re: speaking passwords

>

> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:34 PM, Bill White wrote:

>

>     By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on

>     the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we

>     have JAWS set to echo characters.

>

> I understand precisely what's being asked for, and it should not be

> provided if one has a scintilla of concern for keeping passwords secure.

>

> After 35 years in IT, and witnessing firsthand all the things that

> "can't happen" and "shouldn't happen," particularly when there is the

> high potential for human error, one puts in place roadblocks to

> precisely that kind of error.

>

> Anyone, and I do mean anyone, should be able to remember their own

> chosen password or use a password manager.

>

> The convenience of hearing one's keystrokes echoed with the letters

> struck for a password field cannot be justified, though as I've

> witnessed, repeatedly, many will try.

>

> --

>

> Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

>

> /The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the

> right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment./

>

>            ~ Dorothy Nevill

>

>

 

 

 

 


Gene Stevens
 

That is quite different than not being able to type the password due to blindness or lack of typing skills. And in your case I wouldn’t have hired you in the first place. I ran an IT business and we all did a lot of typing .

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

Let us see I am a former aerospace Engineer and hold a masters in

computer science.  My old fingers are stiff in my old age from all the

typing I have done in the past.

 

On 8/18/2018 7:50 PM, Gene Stevens wrote:

> As a blind person and former employer there is no way I’d allow this at

> my work place. If you can’t remember and type your password well enough

> to not hear it echoed back to you you aren’t computer literate enough to

> hold the job you have.

>

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

> Windows 10

>

> *From: *Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>

> *Sent: *Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:48 PM

> *To: *main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>

> *Subject: *Re: speaking passwords

>

> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:34 PM, Bill White wrote:

>

>     By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on

>     the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we

>     have JAWS set to echo characters.

>

> I understand precisely what's being asked for, and it should not be

> provided if one has a scintilla of concern for keeping passwords secure.

>

> After 35 years in IT, and witnessing firsthand all the things that

> "can't happen" and "shouldn't happen," particularly when there is the

> high potential for human error, one puts in place roadblocks to

> precisely that kind of error.

>

> Anyone, and I do mean anyone, should be able to remember their own

> chosen password or use a password manager.

>

> The convenience of hearing one's keystrokes echoed with the letters

> struck for a password field cannot be justified, though as I've

> witnessed, repeatedly, many will try.

>

> --

>

> Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

>

> /The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the

> right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment./

>

>            ~ Dorothy Nevill

>

>

 

 

 

 


Dennis Brown
 

Hi,
I am a rare exception to your list of should-be’s.  I use a telegraph key as input because of a loss of hands, and need to get assurance that the key sequence of dit’s and dah’s are correct.
Espectually when you get two or three chances only to get it right.
Most in work environments use headphones so as not to have speech interfere with co-workers, so the user would be the only one hearing it.
Being libertarian, I want the freedom to make choices for myself—let me be the one to decide if I think any particular time I want to hear it or not.  If I think it is high-risk, then that is one time I’ll turn it off.  But, for most situations at home, I’d want it on.
Government web sites are generally set for a fixed number of attempts at getting it right then you are shut out for 24 hours, , and rightfully so, but when you have typing stability disabilities, echoing the characters will allow me to backspace and reenter that character before continuing.
Password Managers are an easy fix, but there will always be that one time or two when the situation requires a manual type-in.
Thanks,
Dennis
 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords
 
On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:34 PM, Bill White wrote:
By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.
I understand precisely what's being asked for, and it should not be provided if one has a scintilla of concern for keeping passwords secure.

After 35 years in IT, and witnessing firsthand all the things that "can't happen" and "shouldn't happen," particularly when there is the high potential for human error, one puts in place roadblocks to precisely that kind of error.

Anyone, and I do mean anyone, should be able to remember their own chosen password or use a password manager.

The convenience of hearing one's keystrokes echoed with the letters struck for a password field cannot be justified, though as I've witnessed, repeatedly, many will try.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Gene. This wouldn’t be an option likely to be implemented in the workplace anyway. Not all of us use JAWS only in the workplace.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Stevens
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

As a blind person and former employer there is no way I’d allow this at my work place. If you can’t remember and type your password well enough to not hear it echoed back to you you aren’t computer literate enough to hold the job you have.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:34 PM, Bill White wrote:

By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.

I understand precisely what's being asked for, and it should not be provided if one has a scintilla of concern for keeping passwords secure.

After 35 years in IT, and witnessing firsthand all the things that "can't happen" and "shouldn't happen," particularly when there is the high potential for human error, one puts in place roadblocks to precisely that kind of error.

Anyone, and I do mean anyone, should be able to remember their own chosen password or use a password manager.

The convenience of hearing one's keystrokes echoed with the letters struck for a password field cannot be justified, though as I've witnessed, repeatedly, many will try.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill

 


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Security wise, it could not be a default option, and should only be able to be implemented by an administrator.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:40 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

I forgot the particular situation in which this took place.  But, I recall being on the phone with another totally blind person.  I was amazed to hear his screen reader, as we spoke.  Apparently, he was educated in Africa.  He was delegated to do the typing, when he was a child, for the nuns who ran the residential school in which he was educated, in the 1960's.  The head phones, then available, were quite heavy; and caused much distress to those who wore them.  As a result, to this day, he refuses to wear them.  He is a professor, at a University.  I can imagine how his attitude concerning the use of head phones might effect any perceived security issues.  However, he has been such a fine typist.  He would not require such an option.  I also have a further question.  If Foe were to incorporate this option, would it be a default option?  I would hope it wouldn't.  I, personally, would find it to be a bother to turn such an option off. 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:54 PM

Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:50 PM, Bill White wrote:

I would never advocate using spoken passwords in a public or employment situation. Even if we are employed at home, if we are on the phone with someone, they could hear our spoken password.

The problem being, Bill, while yours is a sensible position having this be a user toggle is, from a computer security assessment perspective, an accident waiting to happen.  And it would.

VFO is erring on the side of caution in a situation where caution is desirable, nay, necessary.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

They could have such a problem, I suppose, until they Tabbed, and found another form field.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

I was unaware other screen readers echoed the characters.  When typed as pass words.  The question I have for those who advocate the pass word key echo being an option is this:  There are times I find myself in a user name form field.  Rather than in the pass word form field.  In fact, I did so today.  When I heard the beginning of my pass word, I immediately realized I was in the wrong form field.  Wouldn't those advocating pass words being echoed have a similar problem.  Should their request not be honored by the web site on which they were.  Due to their not understanding they were using the incorrect form field?

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill White

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not.   And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on.  That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No"
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


netbat66
 

if vfo required a administrator password to turn this option on or off it couldn't be turned on accidently. grin

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:
The security argument is spurious.No, it's not. And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on. That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No."

--


Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


netbat66
 

one problem i had with one password manager last pass was it would forget some of the passwords and i had to re enter them again. if i was not useing my own passwords saved on a flash drive i would of been locked out of my accounts.
maybe the web sites were blocking the use of password managers? i don't know.
so i don't use them anymore.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Tessore
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Hi all,
The only security risk I can’t imagine eliminating is that of a shoulder surfer. If I were concerned about my password being captured while entering it, I’d have it ready to refer to it in either a braille format (like a braille note taker or a 3x5 card) so a synthesizer won’t announce it, or on some synthesizer enabled device (like a smart phone) and a head set to let me hear the characters and no one else. Yes, it’s a pain to have no feed back during keying, but that’s where practice, patience, and sometimes a pair of ear buds come in handy. Alternatively, I’d use a password manager and bypass the storage device and headset altogether. But then I prefer to depend on my own skills for access and security.

Shabbat shalom,

Bill Tessore
billtessore@gmail.com





On Aug 18, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:
The security argument is spurious.No, it's not. And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on. That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No."

--


Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


Don H
 

Let us see I am a former aerospace Engineer and hold a masters in computer science. My old fingers are stiff in my old age from all the typing I have done in the past.

On 8/18/2018 7:50 PM, Gene Stevens wrote:
As a blind person and former employer there is no way I’d allow this at my work place. If you can’t remember and type your password well enough to not hear it echoed back to you you aren’t computer literate enough to hold the job you have.
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
*From: *Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:48 PM
*To: *main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: speaking passwords
On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:34 PM, Bill White wrote:
By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on
the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we
have JAWS set to echo characters.
I understand precisely what's being asked for, and it should not be provided if one has a scintilla of concern for keeping passwords secure.
After 35 years in IT, and witnessing firsthand all the things that "can't happen" and "shouldn't happen," particularly when there is the high potential for human error, one puts in place roadblocks to precisely that kind of error.
Anyone, and I do mean anyone, should be able to remember their own chosen password or use a password manager.
The convenience of hearing one's keystrokes echoed with the letters struck for a password field cannot be justified, though as I've witnessed, repeatedly, many will try.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment./
          ~ Dorothy Nevill