speaking passwords


Don H
 

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.


netbat66
 

rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.


Don H
 

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin
-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords
With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in.  I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.


 

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in.  I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.









netbat66
 

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star star star with every key press.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.









Tom <tomcat509@...>
 

Yes, Jaws should have the ability to either say "star" or the letter as it is typed in. Surely it would not be too difficult to have a toggle in Jaws which would
Allow the user to decide which output was required at the time.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2018 4:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star
star star with every key press.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.









Alan Robbins
 

Agreed, this is exactly the way it works in Safari on my iPhone. Do I use it, no. However, for those that desire the behavior it should be a toggle. Same argument could be made for the ribbons. Jaws offers a toggle to enable their approach or access as sighted users do in Windows. Again, to satisfy all camps make it a choice.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Yes, Jaws should have the ability to either say "star" or the letter as it is typed in. Surely it would not be too difficult to have a toggle in Jaws which would Allow the user to decide which output was required at the time.

Tom



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2018 4:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star star star with every key press.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk
and they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.









netbat66
 

why couldn't vfo give us the toggle to turn the key presses on and off but do it so it would require a administrator password before the feature could be changed.
then no one else could make any changes.
this would satify there security criteria.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:19 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Yes, Jaws should have the ability to either say "star" or the letter as it is typed in. Surely it would not be too difficult to have a toggle in Jaws which would
Allow the user to decide which output was required at the time.

Tom



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2018 4:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
and with me i can not concentrate on the passwords i enter with it saying star
star star with every key press.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:43 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

If sighted users can't see the password why should we?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

Dam shame that FS doesn't think its users have the capacity to make a
decision to speak passwords or not.

On 8/17/2018 4:47 PM, netbat66 wrote:
rots of ruck.
i asked for this last year and vfo told me this was a security risk and
they would not allow this with any versions of jaws.
and why not?
i am not a business this is home with only me. no one else is going to
see the passwords. unless my dog can talk. grin

-----Original Message----- From: Don H
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: speaking passwords

With both Window Eyes and NVDA you have a option to speak passwords as
you type them in. I sure would like to see this feature in JAWS.









 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 02:50 AM, netbat66 wrote:
because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
So?  Most people do not "hunt and peck" type, whether passwords or anything else.  They're not looking at the keyboard in the vast majority of cases.  We (as I am part of the group "sighted people") fat finger our passwords all the time and have to re-enter them.

As far as I'm concerned, VFO has it right.  Passwords should never be spoken, letter by letter, as they are typed in, anywhere.  A user is expected to remember them or use a password manager, and most of those can shoot you right to the webpage and enter the login id and password both, if conventional coding methods, rather than pop-up sign-in boxes, are used.

Speaking password character entry entirely defeats the intention of passwords to begin with.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


 

BTW, I personally hate the whole, "star, star, star, star," thing.  It would be so much less distracting to just use a tone, and a very quick and low volume one, to indicate a key press had occurred.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Angel
 


I also believe, if there is ever the idea given to sighted employers that we blind individuals might required spoken pass words; they will have another excuse not to hire us.  They will believe spoken pass words will further compromise their companies security.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 02:50 AM, netbat66 wrote:
because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
So?  Most people do not "hunt and peck" type, whether passwords or anything else.  They're not looking at the keyboard in the vast majority of cases.  We (as I am part of the group "sighted people") fat finger our passwords all the time and have to re-enter them.

As far as I'm concerned, VFO has it right.  Passwords should never be spoken, letter by letter, as they are typed in, anywhere.  A user is expected to remember them or use a password manager, and most of those can shoot you right to the webpage and enter the login id and password both, if conventional coding methods, rather than pop-up sign-in boxes, are used.

Speaking password character entry entirely defeats the intention of passwords to begin with.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Peter Donahue
 

Hello everyone,

 

                To speak or not to speak passwords should be an option the end user should be able to enable or disable.

 

Peter Donahue

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:31 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

I also believe, if there is ever the idea given to sighted employers that we blind individuals might required spoken pass words; they will have another excuse not to hire us.  They will believe spoken pass words will further compromise their companies security.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:03 PM

Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 02:50 AM, netbat66 wrote:

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.

So?  Most people do not "hunt and peck" type, whether passwords or anything else.  They're not looking at the keyboard in the vast majority of cases.  We (as I am part of the group "sighted people") fat finger our passwords all the time and have to re-enter them.

As far as I'm concerned, VFO has it right.  Passwords should never be spoken, letter by letter, as they are typed in, anywhere.  A user is expected to remember them or use a password manager, and most of those can shoot you right to the webpage and enter the login id and password both, if conventional coding methods, rather than pop-up sign-in boxes, are used.

Speaking password character entry entirely defeats the intention of passwords to begin with.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Angel. We don’t require spoken passwords. It is just a convenience when we are using our own computers at home, and there is no one there to intercept them. I would never advocate using spoken passwords in a public or employment situation. Even if we are employed at home, if we are on the phone with someone, they could hear our spoken password.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:31 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

I also believe, if there is ever the idea given to sighted employers that we blind individuals might required spoken pass words; they will have another excuse not to hire us.  They will believe spoken pass words will further compromise their companies security.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:03 PM

Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 02:50 AM, netbat66 wrote:

because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.

So?  Most people do not "hunt and peck" type, whether passwords or anything else.  They're not looking at the keyboard in the vast majority of cases.  We (as I am part of the group "sighted people") fat finger our passwords all the time and have to re-enter them.

As far as I'm concerned, VFO has it right.  Passwords should never be spoken, letter by letter, as they are typed in, anywhere.  A user is expected to remember them or use a password manager, and most of those can shoot you right to the webpage and enter the login id and password both, if conventional coding methods, rather than pop-up sign-in boxes, are used.

Speaking password character entry entirely defeats the intention of passwords to begin with.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:

To speak or not to speak passwords should be an option the end user should be able to enable or disable.

 

You can say this as many times as you like.   But it is utterly untrue if one is taking the idea of security generally seriously and wanting to put out a product that a very great many third parties in the business and government worlds would be apoplectic were it to be used.

It's not all about you (and that's for any you, not you, Peter Donahue).  Your convenience and desires are far from the only consideration.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:50 PM, Bill White wrote:
I would never advocate using spoken passwords in a public or employment situation. Even if we are employed at home, if we are on the phone with someone, they could hear our spoken password.
The problem being, Bill, while yours is a sensible position having this be a user toggle is, from a computer security assessment perspective, an accident waiting to happen.  And it would.

VFO is erring on the side of caution in a situation where caution is desirable, nay, necessary.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Don H
 

Since in such a situation you would probably have a set of headphones attached so everyone would not be bothered by the noise your idea doesn't hold water.

On 8/18/2018 2:31 PM, Angel wrote:

I also believe, if there is ever the idea given to sighted employers that we blind individuals might required spoken pass words; they will have another excuse not to hire us.  They will believe spoken pass words will further compromise their companies security.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:* Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:03 PM
*Subject:* Re: speaking passwords
On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 02:50 AM, netbat66 wrote:
because sighted people can see the keyboard. we can not.
So?  Most people do not "hunt and peck" type, whether passwords or
anything else.  They're not looking at the keyboard in the vast
majority of cases.  We (as I am part of the group "sighted people")
fat finger our passwords all the time and have to re-enter them.
As far as I'm concerned, VFO has it right.  Passwords should never
be spoken, letter by letter, as they are typed in, anywhere.  A user
is expected to remember them or use a password manager, and most of
those can shoot you right to the webpage and enter the login id and
password both, if conventional coding methods, rather than pop-up
sign-in boxes, are used.
Speaking password character entry entirely defeats the intention of
passwords to begin with.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in
the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment./
       ~ Dorothy Nevill


Don H
 

You sure can tell the people who have been brain washed by FS.

On 8/18/2018 2:52 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
To speak or not to speak passwords should be an option the end user
should be able to enable or disable.
You can say this as many times as you like.   But it is utterly untrue if one is taking the idea of security generally seriously and wanting to put out a product that a very great many third parties in the business and government worlds would be apoplectic were it to be used.
It's not all about you (and that's for any you, not you, Peter Donahue).  Your convenience and desires are far from the only consideration.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment./
          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Brian. There are other options in JAWS, such as, Use JAWS at Logon for All Users, which are subject to administrator approval. If VFO made the Voice Passwords option the same way, security would not be a problem, because, unless the person was administrator, they could not change to Voiced or spoken passwords. The security argument is spurious.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 12:52 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:

To speak or not to speak passwords should be an option the end user should be able to enable or disable.

 

You can say this as many times as you like.   But it is utterly untrue if one is taking the idea of security generally seriously and wanting to put out a product that a very great many third parties in the business and government worlds would be apoplectic were it to be used.

It's not all about you (and that's for any you, not you, Peter Donahue).  Your convenience and desires are far from the only consideration.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:
The security argument is spurious.
No, it's not.   And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on.  That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

By the way, Brian, we’re not asking that the passwords be shown on the screen, only key echoed, the same way keys are echoed when we have JAWS set to echo characters.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: speaking passwords

 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 04:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

The security argument is spurious.

No, it's not.   And just for the record I have no direct or indirect ties to VFO.

If something like this exists it is 100% certain, at one point or another, to be accidentally turned on.  That alone is reason enough on security grounds to say, "No."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill