Amazon.com "Cart" page
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Hello All,
During a session today I encountered something I've never encountered before with JAWS: An inaccessible link that's clearly visible to me. In addition I could not find a workaround that allowed for what I consider a reasonable way to hear the list of what's in your cart. I would have expected that the item links that show up in the cart would have been implemented as headings, much like the item links are all headings at level 2 on the search results page. They don't show up in the headings list, though. The closest I can get to the items list is to go to the Shopping Cart heading and start reading from there. For each item in the cart there exists a "Delete" link which allows you to do exactly what it says. Almost anyone has occasional need or desire to nuke an item or items from their cart, but I can find absolutely no way to access these Delete links for each item. They do not show up even in the list of links for the page. In playing with this same page with NVDA the results are the same when I look at either a list of the headings or links. What's interesting though is if I change the element being looked at to "Form Fields" these delete links show up in that list. If these things are form fields then they're the best disguised form fields I've ever seen. They are visually presented as links and I'd expect they'd be in a list of links, not form fields. They also show up in NVDA's list of Buttons, and they certainly are not presented as buttons. I've done the NVDA experimentation this evening, at my leisure, so I had no idea about this when I first encountered it. It still seems utterly bizarre. What, if anything, am I doing wrong here? It's also interesting to see how Amazon went overboard with alternate text for item images. When you get JAWS to begin reading the cart in its long and meandering way the full item name is always presented twice since the alternate text for the item image is a word for word copy of the click-through text used for the item link itself. It makes the whole process of even trying to review one's cart incredibly tedious. I notice that when JAWS is being used there is a link that shows up for Disability Support (or a very similar phrase) and I can't seem to find that using NVDA, but I could also be on a different version of the cart page than I was looking at earlier today. If anyone knows "the collection of slick tricks" for efficiently interacting with the Amazon Cart page I'd love to hear them. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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Robin Frost
Hi,
The text of the disability oriented link you referred to by me says:
“
Click to call our Disability Customer Support line, or reach us directly at
1-888-283-1678”
Sadly let me say from the outset I come not to offer help exactly but
rather to say I’ve experienced similar inconsistencies in Amazon land. I’ve also
never encountered so many elements that don’t report as buttons or links but
rather words which if you’re adventurous enough to try and click upon might or
might not do something depending on the day or the direction of the wind or any
other random thing you can imagine. I also regularly experience links on the
Amazon site reported correctly by screen readers even when clicking on them with
whatever manner of your choosing but resulting in you landing on an unintended
destination page. It is positively maddening and happens on that site more than
anywhere else no matter the browser or screen reader in use.
amazon has made great strides in the accessibility of many of its own
products but sadly their attention to their main site seems woefully
neglected.
I hope you and we all see some improvement on this one day.
Robin
From: Brian
Vogel
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 7:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Amazon.com "Cart" page Hello
All, During a session today I encountered something I've never encountered before with JAWS: An inaccessible link that's clearly visible to me. In addition I could not find a workaround that allowed for what I consider a reasonable way to hear the list of what's in your cart. I would have expected that the item links that show up in the cart would have been implemented as headings, much like the item links are all headings at level 2 on the search results page. They don't show up in the headings list, though. The closest I can get to the items list is to go to the Shopping Cart heading and start reading from there. For each item in the cart there exists a "Delete" link which allows you to do exactly what it says. Almost anyone has occasional need or desire to nuke an item or items from their cart, but I can find absolutely no way to access these Delete links for each item. They do not show up even in the list of links for the page. In playing with this same page with NVDA the results are the same when I look at either a list of the headings or links. What's interesting though is if I change the element being looked at to "Form Fields" these delete links show up in that list. If these things are form fields then they're the best disguised form fields I've ever seen. They are visually presented as links and I'd expect they'd be in a list of links, not form fields. They also show up in NVDA's list of Buttons, and they certainly are not presented as buttons. I've done the NVDA experimentation this evening, at my leisure, so I had no idea about this when I first encountered it. It still seems utterly bizarre. What, if anything, am I doing wrong here? It's also interesting to see how Amazon went overboard with alternate text for item images. When you get JAWS to begin reading the cart in its long and meandering way the full item name is always presented twice since the alternate text for the item image is a word for word copy of the click-through text used for the item link itself. It makes the whole process of even trying to review one's cart incredibly tedious. I notice that when JAWS is being used there is a link that shows up for Disability Support (or a very similar phrase) and I can't seem to find that using NVDA, but I could also be on a different version of the cart page than I was looking at earlier today. If anyone knows "the collection of slick tricks" for efficiently interacting with the Amazon Cart page I'd love to hear them. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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Robin,
Thanks much. As perverse as it sounds knowing that the insanity I'm experiencing is consistent is a comfort of sorts. There are times when I become convinced that I must have overlooked something rather than thinking "this website is an accessibility nightmare." It's not that I wish accessibility nightmares on anyone, but knowing that's what's going on is a screwed up website restores my sanity (as much as it can be restored). -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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William Vandervest
As regards navigating the Amazon cart page, I just move thru the page by pressing “G” and moving by graphic, I don’t ever recall having the delete link or button not working
Using win10, I E 11, and JFW2018, all latest builds and updates, 64bit system
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Robin Frost
Hi,I giggle out of empathy. I so identify with every word you’ve written
sir (smile).
Robin
From: Brian
Vogel
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 9:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon.com "Cart" page Robin, Thanks much. As perverse as it sounds knowing that the insanity I'm experiencing is consistent is a comfort of sorts. There are times when I become convinced that I must have overlooked something rather than thinking "this website is an accessibility nightmare." It's not that I wish accessibility nightmares on anyone, but knowing that's what's going on is a screwed up website restores my sanity (as much as it can be restored). -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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William,
Thanks. I'll give that a try. I have absolutely nothing against whatever works and spent quite a bit of time today trying a lot of what didn't work. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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Dale Heltzer
Amen!
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Robin Frost
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 9:43 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon.com "Cart" page
Hi,I giggle out of empathy. I so identify with every word you’ve written sir (smile). Robin
From: Brian Vogel Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Amazon.com "Cart" page
Robin, Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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Hope Williamson <isepic@...>
This is strange because I use this page on a regular basis. Everything seems to work fine for me, including the delete buttons, and they're definitely treated as buttons, not links. However, I exclusively use Chrome and/or Firefox with Amazon and most other things as well.
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Hope,
I don't doubt that it does. What I'm trying to figure out is how to get the cart page to "distill" the list of items in the cart down. I can get this stuff to read, but in a way that's so long and convoluted that it makes one wish to slash one's wrists. I do think William Vandervest's solution about navigating by graphic just to hear what's in the cart would fill the bill for a quick review. With regard to the Delete function being a button, not a link, it's sort of a "reverse accessibility" issue. I base what I tell my clients on what is presented visually, and it is a big no-no to present one object type in the guise of another. The Delete function is visually presented as a link, so that's what I thought it was. Now that I know it's a button that makes life far easier and it will make me check for this sort of nonsense in the future. I'd like to throttle the designer of that webpage as it violates every rule of standard presentation to do what they did. By the way, I'm using Firefox with this client, as it's his preferred browser (and one of mine, Chrome being the other - I haven't touched IE in years and won't unless forced and Edge remains "not ready for prime time" in my opinion) -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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Hope Williamson <isepic@...>
Hi Brian, yeah it can be long if there are more than a few items. However, I'd rather go through everything before checkout and make sure I have all the right stuff in there etc. That's just me being extra thorough though, and paying attention, so I don't have to return something because I got 2 instead of just one or whatever. The navigating by graphics trick does seem to work, I just tested it.
I don't use Edge for anything either, and I only tend to use IE if I'm listening to a long stream, (I have several of those I like to listen to.) Chrome is my default right now simply because it opens links in Thunderbird without asking me to refresh it every single time like Firefox does for some strange reason. Lol yeah I know that whole thing about clicking links in email, but there are just some you have to click. |
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Hope,
Thanks for confirming that the navigation by graphic in the cart is an effective trick. It's always good to hear that it works for at least two people, though I certainly didn't doubt the person who posted it, either. I can understand entirely wanting to thoroughly review a cart before checkout. As to links in e-mails, like all other things, I am far from doctrinaire with regard to that. If you know the source of the message, they're a person or entity you trust, and there's noting in the message otherwise that sets off your alarm bells then click/activate away. That's why the facility is there: convenience. One need only be reasonably cautious, not paranoid. In fact, I see an excess of caution through outright paranoia cause far more problems in life than being reasonably cautious to even just the slightest bit cavalier ever does. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~ Dorothy Nevill |
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