moderated Headings List Behaving Erratically


 

On a smile.amazon.com page, in this one a search for car GPS:

                 https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_7?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=car+gps&sprefix=car+gps%2Caps%2C204&crid=3PV9DKR2H61VR

the results of interest are all Level 2 headings, and it's far easier to cruise through those to decide what one would like to explore further than it is to try dealing with the list of links on an Amazon search results page.

That being the case, I encourage clients to bring up the list of headings with INS+F6, scan through the headings then hit enter once one encounters an item of interest, then hitting Enter again if one wants the link for that product represented by the header (which also happens to be a link) to open in the same tab as one is viewing the search results in or to use CTRL+Enter if they want it to open in a tab of its own.

The weird thing is that this technique is unpredictably erratic in the end result.  Earlier today, when using the page I gave the link to.  If one followed that technique for the first level 2 heading (which is the first product search result), it works perfectly - you zoom right over to the webpage with the product info.  However, if you pick a level 2 heading for another product that's further down the list of headings it simply doesn't; you go nowhere.  I also find it weird that no matter what heading you go to the output from JAWS is "blank."  I would think it should repeat the heading text when you use the "move to heading" function, but it doesn't.

What, if anything, am I doing wrong here?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


Nermin
 

Hi Brian,
 
here is the history window output from JAWS 2018 with firefox. This is using JAWS in German, hence the German word for heading.
I never use the links list, I almost exclusively just go heading by heading using h or shift+h, or I use the numbers on the number row. This time, I used the number 2 to jump from heading to heading directly, and this is the output I’m getting:
 
Amazon.com: car gps: Electronics - Mozilla Firefox
Garmin DriveSmart 51 NA LMT-S with Lifetime Maps/Traffic, Live… Überschrift Link
Garmin DriveSmart 51 NA LMT-S with Lifetime Maps/Traffic, Live Parking, Bluetooth,WiFi, Smart Notifications, Voice Activation, Driver Alerts, TripAdvisor, Foursquare
The best car GPS
Überschrift Link Garmin DriveSmart 51 NA LMT-S with Lifetime Maps/Traffic, Live…
Garmin
TomTom GO 520 5-Inch GPS Navigation Device with Free…
Überschrift Link
Garmin DriveAssist 51 NA LMT-S w/Lifetime Maps/Traffic, Dash…
Überschrift Link
Garmin Drive 50 USA LM GPS Navigator System with Lifetime Maps, Spoken Turn-By-Turn Directions, Direct Access, Driver Alerts, and Foursquare Data
Überschrift Link
Car GPS Navigation, 7 inch Touch Screen + 8GB Voice Prompt GPS Navigation for Car with Lifetime Maps and Built-in Multi-Media and FM
Überschrift Link
GPS Navigation for Car, 5 Inch Touch Screen Voice Reminding Vehicle GPS Navigator 128MB 8GB System Lifetime Free Map
Überschrift Link
Teeno GPS Navigation for Car (5inch) Car GPS Navigator built-in Satellite Navigation System, Voice Notification, Lifetime Maps and Traffic, Driver Alerts
Überschrift Link
Car GPS Navigation, 7-inch HD capacitive screen voice navigation system, 256MB, extend 32GB Memory Multi-functional car charger and high-speed data cable
- Lifetime map update
Überschrift Link
Garmin DriveSmart 61 NA LMT-S with Lifetime Maps/Traffic, Live Parking, Bluetooth,WiFi, Smart Notifications, Voice Activation, Driver Alerts, TripAdvisor,
Foursquare
Überschrift Link
GPS Tracker Vyncs No Monthly Fee OBD, Real Time 3G Car GPS Tracking, Trips, Free 1 Year Data Plan, Teen Unsafe Driving Alert, Engine Data, Fleet Monitoring,
Fuel Report, Optional Roadside Assistance
Überschrift Link
GPS Navigation for Car, 7 Inch Car GPS Navigation System 8GB Touch Screen Vehicle GPS Navigator with Lifetime Map Update
Überschrift Link
Garmin Drive 50 USA LMT GPS Navigator System with Lifetime Maps and Traffic, Driver Alerts, Direct Access, and Foursquare data
Überschrift Link
7 inch HD GPS Car Navigation System, 128MB System 8GB Memory Capacitive Touch Screen, Real Man and Woman Broadcast Top Loading North America Map, Map Lifetime
Free Update (Black)
Überschrift Link
GPS Holder for Car, Cell Phone Holder Car Dashboard, Reusable Silicone Pad Universal Car Mount Cradle for Garmin GPS, Iphone 6 Plus 7 Plus 8 Plus X,Samsung
Galaxy S9 S8,3-6.8 Inch Smartphones - Black
Überschrift Link
TomTom VIA 1515M 5-Inch GPS with Lifetime Map Updates
Überschrift Link
SHENEN GPS Navigation for Car, Vehicle GPS SAT NAV 7 Inches 8GB Capacitive Touchscreen, Spoken Turn-to-Turn Navigation Included Overall America Maps with
Lifetime Free Updates and 2 Car Charger
Überschrift Link
junsun 7" Car GPS Navigation Vehicle GPS Capacitive Touchscreen Built-in 8GB FM MP3 MP4 Sat nav Navigator with Lifetime Maps
Überschrift Link
ADiPROD Car GPS, Car GPS Navigation system, GPS Navigation for Car, SAT NAV, 7 inch HD Real Voice Navigator, Dash Board Mount & USB Cable & Car Charger,
Free Lifetime Map Update
Überschrift Link
TomTom VIA 1415M 4.3-Inch Portable Touchscreen Car GPS Navigation Device - Lifetime Map Updates (Certified Refurbished)
Überschrift Link
GPS Navigator,CCsky 7" Drive GPS Navigator with Free Lifetime Maps,800x480 Touch Screen GPS Navigation Stereo System with 8GB Memory for Car,Advanced Lane
Guidance and Spoken Turn-By-Turn Directions
Überschrift Link
Dashboard Pad Mounting Disk for Dashboard Suction Cup Car Mount Phone Holder GPS Holder Universal Plastic Mounting Pad Non-Slip Mat with 3M Adhesive for
Suction Cup Phone Holder Cradle 3 Pcs
Überschrift Link
Spy Tec STI GL300 Mini Portable Real Time Personal and Vehicle GPS Tracker
Überschrift Link
 
Regards,
Nermin

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 12:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Headings List Behaving Erratically
 
On a smile.amazon.com page, in this one a search for car GPS:

                 https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_7?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=car+gps&sprefix=car+gps%2Caps%2C204&crid=3PV9DKR2H61VR

the results of interest are all Level 2 headings, and it's far easier to cruise through those to decide what one would like to explore further than it is to try dealing with the list of links on an Amazon search results page.

That being the case, I encourage clients to bring up the list of headings with INS+F6, scan through the headings then hit enter once one encounters an item of interest, then hitting Enter again if one wants the link for that product represented by the header (which also happens to be a link) to open in the same tab as one is viewing the search results in or to use CTRL+Enter if they want it to open in a tab of its own.

The weird thing is that this technique is unpredictably erratic in the end result.  Earlier today, when using the page I gave the link to.  If one followed that technique for the first level 2 heading (which is the first product search result), it works perfectly - you zoom right over to the webpage with the product info.  However, if you pick a level 2 heading for another product that's further down the list of headings it simply doesn't; you go nowhere.  I also find it weird that no matter what heading you go to the output from JAWS is "blank."  I would think it should repeat the heading text when you use the "move to heading" function, but it doesn't.

What, if anything, am I doing wrong here?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


 

Nermin,

            My issue is not that the headings list, per se, is acting erratically - as they do all show - but what happens after you choose one to move to is.   Since all of the level 2 headings in an Amazon search correspond to the click-through text links for a specific product returned from the search, I expect that if I move to one of those headings, then hit either Enter (if I wish to overlay my search results in the current tab, then use backspace to return to them) or CTRL+Enter (to open in a separate tab) that the link will consistently open based on which command I issued.   It does not.  Sometimes the link opens, sometimes I get nothing.

            This makes no sense to me as I can see said headings/links and if I use "the sighted way" and point and click each and every one of them will open, but they're not doing that under JAWS.

             I can't decide if I'm doing something wrong or the web page is somehow coded peculiarly or if there's a bug of some sort in JAWS 2018.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


Mario
 

rarely I will experience the same issue you described (but not with
Amazon), and believe that the website/webpage had been coded slightly in
a non standard way, thus behaving not as expected and sometimes irradically.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, Jun 27, 2018 11:27 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Headings List Behaving Erratically

Nermin,

            My issue is not that the headings list, per se, is acting
erratically - as they do all show - but what happens after you choose
one to move to is.   Since all of the level 2 headings in an Amazon
search correspond to the click-through text links for a specific product
returned from the search, I expect that if I move to one of those
headings, then hit either Enter (if I wish to overlay my search results
in the current tab, then use backspace to return to them) or CTRL+Enter
(to open in a separate tab) that the link will consistently open based
on which command I issued.   It does not.  Sometimes the link opens,
sometimes I get nothing.

            This makes no sense to me as I can see said headings/links
and if I use "the sighted way" and point and click each and every one of
them will open, but they're not doing that under JAWS.

             I can't decide if I'm doing something wrong or the web
page is somehow coded peculiarly or if there's a bug of some sort in
JAWS 2018.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

    Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and
many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome,
charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in
one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

        ~ Mark Twain


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Brian. I think what you need to do is to move a couple of characters to the right when you go to one of these inconsistent headings. A lot of times, even when you think you are focused on a link, the JAWS virtual Cursor is not properly focused on the link. Moving a couple of characters forward on the link often resolves this problem.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 8:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Headings List Behaving Erratically

 

Nermin,

            My issue is not that the headings list, per se, is acting erratically - as they do all show - but what happens after you choose one to move to is.   Since all of the level 2 headings in an Amazon search correspond to the click-through text links for a specific product returned from the search, I expect that if I move to one of those headings, then hit either Enter (if I wish to overlay my search results in the current tab, then use backspace to return to them) or CTRL+Enter (to open in a separate tab) that the link will consistently open based on which command I issued.   It does not.  Sometimes the link opens, sometimes I get nothing.

            This makes no sense to me as I can see said headings/links and if I use "the sighted way" and point and click each and every one of them will open, but they're not doing that under JAWS.

             I can't decide if I'm doing something wrong or the web page is somehow coded peculiarly or if there's a bug of some sort in JAWS 2018.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


Nermin
 

Hi Brian,
 
try Bill’s suggestion or just use Tab wherever possible. Using any other key, including quick keys, may result in the link not being focused properly.
That’s what blindys have to suffer. I’m used to that on the web though...
 
Regards,
Nermin
 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Headings List Behaving Erratically
 
Nermin,

            My issue is not that the headings list, per se, is acting erratically - as they do all show - but what happens after you choose one to move to is.   Since all of the level 2 headings in an Amazon search correspond to the click-through text links for a specific product returned from the search, I expect that if I move to one of those headings, then hit either Enter (if I wish to overlay my search results in the current tab, then use backspace to return to them) or CTRL+Enter (to open in a separate tab) that the link will consistently open based on which command I issued.   It does not.  Sometimes the link opens, sometimes I get nothing.

            This makes no sense to me as I can see said headings/links and if I use "the sighted way" and point and click each and every one of them will open, but they're not doing that under JAWS.

             I can't decide if I'm doing something wrong or the web page is somehow coded peculiarly or if there's a bug of some sort in JAWS 2018.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


 

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 09:06 am, Bill White wrote:
I think what you need to do is to move a couple of characters to the right when you go to one of these inconsistent headings.
And am I correct in assuming that just right arrowing a couple of times after using the "Move to heading" option from the headings list is what I should be doing?   I just want to be absolutely certain.

I will definitely give this a try when we get the "won't open the link when we've landed on a heading that is a link as well" syndrome.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


 

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 09:28 am, Nermin wrote:
That’s what blindys have to suffer. I’m used to that on the web though...
I am not foolish enough to even begin to believe that I've "encountered it all" with regard to the web and screen reader use, not even close to it, but this is the first time I've encountered this behavior with regard to using headings as what I call "click landmarks" that give you the descriptive information you need to decide whether a click is worth it.  Using INS+F6 on newspaper webpages, search engine results pages, product search results pages, and the list goes on allows you to eliminate having to look at a proverbial sea of garbage and come down to a  "pond of content with a few bits of floating detritus" in comparison.

It's just infuriating to me, and I can only begin to scratch the surface of how much more infuriating it must be to those who are encountering this sort of thing all the time.  What's even worse, at least from my perspective (and as someone sighted that's likely to be different than yours), is that it's often times well-nigh impossible to know if what one is encountering is a screen reader bug, a webpage coding bug, or something else entirely without digging way under the hood.  In my case, if I even have that luxury, it really disrupts the flow of my student learning what I'm hoping to teach them.  And before anyone says it, yes, I do know it teaches them the reality of how this technology sometimes "doesn't work" and that they need to be fluid about thinking about workarounds.  I try to teach that, too, but I prefer that to occur after the more basic skills of how one should be able to do things in "the typical case" have been firmly established.   Lately, with this student, given what he needs to be able to access, that seems to be well-nigh impossible to accomplish in practice.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Yes. Either move a couple of characters forward with the Right Arrow, or, alternatively, Arrow up once, then TAB down to the link again to focus JAWS on the link.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:11 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Headings List Behaving Erratically

 

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 09:06 am, Bill White wrote:

I think what you need to do is to move a couple of characters to the right when you go to one of these inconsistent headings.

And am I correct in assuming that just right arrowing a couple of times after using the "Move to heading" option from the headings list is what I should be doing?   I just want to be absolutely certain.

I will definitely give this a try when we get the "won't open the link when we've landed on a heading that is a link as well" syndrome.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain


Ashleigh Piccinino
 

You might want to contact via phone or the Microsoft disability helpdesk they might be able to helpk


On Jun 27, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Nermin,

            My issue is not that the headings list, per se, is acting erratically - as they do all show - but what happens after you choose one to move to is.   Since all of the level 2 headings in an Amazon search correspond to the click-through text links for a specific product returned from the search, I expect that if I move to one of those headings, then hit either Enter (if I wish to overlay my search results in the current tab, then use backspace to return to them) or CTRL+Enter (to open in a separate tab) that the link will consistently open based on which command I issued.   It does not.  Sometimes the link opens, sometimes I get nothing.

            This makes no sense to me as I can see said headings/links and if I use "the sighted way" and point and click each and every one of them will open, but they're not doing that under JAWS.

             I can't decide if I'm doing something wrong or the web page is somehow coded peculiarly or if there's a bug of some sort in JAWS 2018.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

         ~ Mark Twain