Freedom Scientific Petition


Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Gerald Levy
 

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS. There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on any facts or evidence.

Gerald

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Jerald, all excelent points, especially the one about most users not being part of these mailing lists.

There is one thing to keep in mind here Mark and all:

Years ago, if commercial broadcasters received complaints about a program, they assumed that each complaint letter represented thousands of people who wern't motivated enough to actually contact them.
Also consider that in the days of consumer surveys done through postal mail, a 2% return rate was standard.

I don't know how those numbers compare to today, since it is much more convenient for people to tweat or facebook their disapproval, or type something nasty into the comment field on a newspaper site. But, it is fair to assume that for every person who signs the petition, there are still a number of others equally annoyed who for whatever reason, don't bother signing.

If you can find recent credible data on this phenomenon, recent enough that it reflects the move to social media and other digital forms of expressing one's displeasure, that should be included to bolster our case. If you find out that one signature represents a hundred who are equally ticked off, and cite credible academic sources, that will be harder for FS to ignore.

Chris
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering: http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


Dave...
 

Ed,

As alluded before, I suspect that no one except the various national
governments have any idea how many blind people there are, and only FS will
know how many active customers they have. Either data will likely be
impossible to get due to laws covering privacy.

So a suggestion is to pick a number like 100. That may be more than the
number of people on this list, but I'm guessing less than the total number
of users on the 5 lists to which I currently subscribe. And of course there
are lists to which I don't .

See what other substantive suggestions you get, and then pick a number that
at least shows a strong mandate.

Can't help with an alternate web site, sorry.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 08:45
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple
of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up goal.
I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that should
sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping with
the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all blind
persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people that is? What
would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although this is
JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes to
screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than intuitive
prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most accessible public
petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list perhaps know of a site
for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to
accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in
some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to
do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@...>
 

Don't forget the power of social media in all this. All of us with
facebook and twitter have a number of jaws user friends on the
respective platforms and in turn they are connected to more jaws users
so I think the message can be spread quite far and won't be limited to
a few mailing lists.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Ed,

As alluded before, I suspect that no one except the various national
governments have any idea how many blind people there are, and only FS will

know how many active customers they have. Either data will likely be
impossible to get due to laws covering privacy.

So a suggestion is to pick a number like 100. That may be more than the
number of people on this list, but I'm guessing less than the total number
of users on the 5 lists to which I currently subscribe. And of course there

are lists to which I don't .

See what other substantive suggestions you get, and then pick a number that

at least shows a strong mandate.

Can't help with an alternate web site, sorry.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 08:45
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple
of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up goal.

I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that should

sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping with

the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all blind
persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people that is? What

would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although this is

JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions
again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes to

screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than intuitive
prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most accessible public
petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list perhaps know of a site

for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to
accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in
some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to
do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Adrian Spratt
 

I am responding to Gerald's message, below, and Chris's reply.
Unfortunately, Chris didn't attach Gerald's initial post.

According to the AFB, 1.5 million people with vision loss use computers.
Obviously, the definition of vision loss is a question, but AFB's
definition may embrace it in this case. The page, in a section that has lots
of other relevant statistics, is at:
http://www.afb.org/section.aspx?SectionID=15&TopicID=413&DocumentID=4900

But even taking your lowest customer base estimate of 50,000, Gerald, FS's
annual revenue would be half a million dollars on SMA payments alone. In
reality, most revenue will come from new users, users whose SMAs have
lapsed, government and corporate purchasers and presumably also government
grants.

Consumer complaints are always seen as the tip of the iceberg. The number
that will generate action depends on many factors. One is the nature of the
business. One or two food poisoning complaints will get action, but a
hundred mail-order complaints might not.

As several listers have noted, FS is a non-public entity, and it is
difficult to imagine what it will take for individual consumers, even when
organized, to influence policy. I suggest that for any petition to succeed,
it should also be sent to the US Education Department, the Federal Trade
Commission, the ACB, the NFB and state and local commissions for the blind.
The larger organizations can use the number of dissatisfied customers
signing the petition to prevail on FS to change its practices. It will be
important to keep the petition focused and to have maybe no more than three
specific recommendations.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 12:25 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as legally
blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use computers with
screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind people do not use
computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is probably quite small.
Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are unemployed, so they would have
little or no means of acquiring computers or commercial screen readers. And
the vast majority of JAWS users do not belong to this or other blind-tech
related mailing lists, so they would have no way of learning about the
petition. FS keeps the number of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret,
so nobody really knows how many blind people are actually using it. But if I
had to venture a guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be
somewhere between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not
based on any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple
of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those
helping with the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds
of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people
that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect?
Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line.
Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic
discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes
to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than
intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or more
accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to
accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in
some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to
do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Jon Pierson <joncpierson@...>
 

Hi,
When the site and petition are finally up, a good healthy, but respectful
email signature with a pointer in that direction could gin up quite a bit of
support.
Then a few well-placed stories in the media about the issue should be taken
seriously if the number of signatories is great enough.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:08 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

Don't forget the power of social media in all this. All of us with facebook
and twitter have a number of jaws user friends on the respective platforms
and in turn they are connected to more jaws users so I think the message can
be spread quite far and won't be limited to a few mailing lists.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Ed,

As alluded before, I suspect that no one except the various national
governments have any idea how many blind people there are, and only FS
will

know how many active customers they have. Either data will likely be
impossible to get due to laws covering privacy.

So a suggestion is to pick a number like 100. That may be more than
the number of people on this list, but I'm guessing less than the
total number of users on the 5 lists to which I currently subscribe.
And of course there

are lists to which I don't .

See what other substantive suggestions you get, and then pick a number
that

at least shows a strong mandate.

Can't help with an alternate web site, sorry.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 08:45
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal.

I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that
should

sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping
with

the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all
blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people
that is? What

would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although
this is

JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions
again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to

screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than
intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site

for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE> Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A
TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL
REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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_______________________________________________
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Robert Logue <bobcat11@...>
 

I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Dave...
 

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Soronel Haetir
 

Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com


Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...>
 

Uhrn, and as usual, a vocal minority of complainers will puff themselves up
into an unwarranted semblance of majority... This will be traditional
"democracy" by loudness. Guido

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon Pierson
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:30 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Freedom Scientific Petition

Hi,
When the site and petition are finally up, a good healthy, but respectful
email signature with a pointer in that direction could gin up quite a bit of
support.
Then a few well-placed stories in the media about the issue should be taken
seriously if the number of signatories is great enough.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:08 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

Don't forget the power of social media in all this. All of us with facebook
and twitter have a number of jaws user friends on the respective platforms
and in turn they are connected to more jaws users so I think the message can
be spread quite far and won't be limited to a few mailing lists.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Ed,

As alluded before, I suspect that no one except the various national
governments have any idea how many blind people there are, and only FS
will

know how many active customers they have. Either data will likely be
impossible to get due to laws covering privacy.

So a suggestion is to pick a number like 100. That may be more than
the number of people on this list, but I'm guessing less than the
total number of users on the 5 lists to which I currently subscribe.
And of course there

are lists to which I don't .

See what other substantive suggestions you get, and then pick a number
that

at least shows a strong mandate.

Can't help with an alternate web site, sorry.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 08:45
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal.

I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that
should

sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping
with

the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all
blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people
that is? What

would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although
this is

JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions
again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to

screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than
intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site

for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE> Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A
TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL
REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave...
 

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may
be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,
and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Morey Worthington
 

I might throw a little monkey in your reasoning. My serial number starts with 20---, but I started with version 3.2. HTH
Moss


Gerald Levy
 

I don't think there is any correlation between JAWS version number and serial number. I purchased JAWS 8 in August, 2007, and my serial number is 426XXX. I doubt whether there are over 400,000 JAWS users worldwide. According to another list member, about 1.5 million blind people in this country use computers. But most of them do not use screen readers; the majority probably use some sort of screen magnification. And if there were, in fact, over 400,000 JAWS users worldwide, it would not be unreasonable to expect the membership of this and the other two JAWS-related mailing lists to be much higher. But the three lists combined have a total membership of only about 1200.

Gerald

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may
be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,
and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Cristóbal
 

50xxx over here and I started at 3.7 back in the year 2000.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:24 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may
be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,
and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Soronel Haetir
 

No, I started using jaws during the transition period between jfw8 and
9. I have had several SMAs in the meantime as well as purchasing the
remote access option, but my SN has not changed.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com


Soronel Haetir
 

Okay, thanks Cristobal,

Given your 50k around 2000, and my 427k later in the decade I would
say that comfortably gives us a total user population of somewhere
around .5M at the high end (assuming that all SN come from the same
series, that say government contracts don't have some different pile -
I am a self-purchaser of jaws personally).

On 10/2/12, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com> wrote:
No, I started using jaws during the transition period between jfw8 and
9. I have had several SMAs in the meantime as well as purchasing the
remote access option, but my SN has not changed.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it
may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per
version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use
JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring
computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com


Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

hmm I have 49747 but I believe my first version was 4.0. I can't remember clearly enough to be certain.



At 06:24 PM 10/2/2012, you wrote:
Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may
be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,
and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users
they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people
use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than
10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring
computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS
users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists,
so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps
the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really
knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be
somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not
based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific
"Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I
have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires)
a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of
JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a
success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has
information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have
any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable
percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to
accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't
want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward
when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are
some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on
the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on
the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better
and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting
assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere
even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always
congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




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AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
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Ian D. Nichols
 

Hi,

My serial number is 56,xxx, and my first version was 4.0, purchased late in 2001.

It would seem that the serial number is not related to the version first purchased.

Ian

Ian D. Nichols

-----Original Message-----
From: Morey Worthington
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:38 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

I might throw a little monkey in your reasoning. My serial number
starts with 20---, but I started with version 3.2. HTH
Moss


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Dave...
 

I think we need a whole lot more data points before we can make that
assumption.

But it's a start.

Now we should throw away 10% to 20% of the quantity due to death and those
who decided to stop purchasing updates. In fact, that may be conservative.

But it's a start.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 16:17
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Okay, thanks Cristobal,

Given your 50k around 2000, and my 427k later in the decade I would
say that comfortably gives us a total user population of somewhere
around .5M at the high end (assuming that all SN come from the same
series, that say government contracts don't have some different pile -
I am a self-purchaser of jaws personally).

On 10/2/12, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com> wrote:
No, I started using jaws during the transition period between jfw8 and
9. I have had several SMAs in the meantime as well as purchasing the
remote access option, but my SN has not changed.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it
may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per
version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use
JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring
computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

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--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

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