NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution


Adrian Spratt
 

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonboy13@...>
 

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes. Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


David <davidwhitehead1957@...>
 

Yummy voices?

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


David <davidwhitehead1957@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Claudia
 

Wow,

Thanks for the very well-summarized review of NVDA.
Where can I obtain it from?
I could see me using this in tandem with Jaws, on my personal computers, when needed.

Claudia

On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Claudia
 

One more question.

Are the voices or voice for NVDA horrible like the one for Narrator?
Thanks.

Claudia

On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dave...
 

Brandon,

"yummy voices"? What is that all about?

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonboy13@comcast.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 13:37
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution


Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

The installed voice is pretty bad, but it'll take any SAPI5 voice.
Incidentally, Narrator is what it is, but the default voice in 7 is a
vast improvement over Sam.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 5:10 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

One more question.

Are the voices or voice for NVDA horrible like the one for Narrator?
Thanks.

Claudia


On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from
Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA.
Between your comments and Gary's occasional references to using it
when JAWS fails, I am now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it
won't incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen
reader, with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't
work, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not
going to take the apparent position of Karen, as I use both and
couldn't really advise a serious or business user to kick the shark
habit. In fact, this conversation stuck out at me and I don't know
the history, but for what it's worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight
and more responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.
When it works, it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.
Its command structure is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes
it easier to learn, and indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it,
rather like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system
and application objects both as objects and with the text in each
object. This allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the
html-like elements in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't
been able to get to in JFW, then set focus there and interact with the
controls smoothly. This mode gives access in some situations where
JFW can't find a hook to interact with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is
no video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a
thumb drive and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.
This promise is almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this
being a major feature in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to
JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing
feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really
get access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well
enough, except the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically
and calendar access is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move
to the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages
like Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out
repeated content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday
use I use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming
with, I would not recommend flying solo with it in a business
environment. I certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say
yet, because it looks like there is a growing body of plug-ins for
NVDA (which function something like JFW scripts) which are starting to
add functionality that didn't exist before. It may be that the user
community will yet provide missing functionality and make it an even
more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro should be careful as it is
already capable of moving many users away from the upgrades. I
haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if
you don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you
change readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

And, http://www.blindaccesstraining.com/main_files/training_courses.php
Is a sign up page for individuals who are interested with learning NVDA in
real time, instead of
Reading through manuals and sorting through mailing lists.
Take care.
Kimsansong@aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:28 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com