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Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Dave... #9239 Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html>
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Karen Hughes <khughes8@...> #9254 this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Adrian Spratt #9255 No, that isn't Dave's intention. I, too, have noticed your frequent suggestions that JAWS users resort to this free software, and I've wondered if it truly is comparable to JAWS. Other listers who posted today have pointed out a number of advantages that JAWS has. We'd very much like to know why, apart from price, you think people needn't use an expensive program like JAWS. toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Karen Hughes Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:33 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201204 17/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...> #9256 Hardly Karen, Dave was just asking for some evidence or elaboration on your statements in favor of NVDA. Do you actually use it? Let's start there. At 05:33 PM 4/17/2012, you wrote: this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING! http://www.ctsmastering.com Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt
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Dave... #9257 Karen, Whatever. Just hoping you'd come up with something to contribute, instead of simply to bash JAWS. We all have our peeves with JAWS, but at least we also add to the content with suggestions that build up while we criticize. This list is by nature an open forum, so my message to you was in that context -- an open invitation to express your reasons why JAWS is inferior to NVDA, or vice-versa. I personally tire of reading noise, and was hoping you had more to contribute. IF someone asking you a question is a threat, then you are on the wrong list. But thanks for replying, nonetheless. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 14:33 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Cristóbal #9258 It's cliché to bash Jaws, and though there is legitimate criticism to be made at this or that part of JFW, the free/cheaper alternatives really aren't going to give you what you need if you actually have to make heavy use of the word editing and spread sheet applications and other programs for a work related environment. The Jaws bugs with a certain aspect of IE or Firefox or maybe even Windows media can get on my nerves, but I can live with them because I am able to do so much with Word and Excel which are important to my ability to run my business and just get work done. Proof reading, track changes, multi-language switching in-depth spread sheet usage, digging around in Windows for this or that obscure setting or configuration, etc. Farting around online or emailing and having to review documents for a business proposal or preparing a budget for a customer with highlights, tables and god knows what else are two different things. Sometimes, you just have to pay or at the very least, you get what you pay for. And that hardly sounded like a threat. Luke, I am your father... toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:19 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, Whatever. Just hoping you'd come up with something to contribute, instead of simply to bash JAWS. We all have our peeves with JAWS, but at least we also add to the content with suggestions that build up while we criticize. This list is by nature an open forum, so my message to you was in that context -- an open invitation to express your reasons why JAWS is inferior to NVDA, or vice-versa. I personally tire of reading noise, and was hoping you had more to contribute. IF someone asking you a question is a threat, then you are on the wrong list. But thanks for replying, nonetheless. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 14:33 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201204 17/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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George B #9259 well you know what karen, if you do not like the list and people go back to your mac list... toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@... jdh.com] On Behalf Of Karen Hughes Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 14:33 To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low- cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the- jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave... #9263 Chris, Interesting quote there at the end. I failed to see the irony in my being considered a Father, boss, or otherwise. My handle actually means Grandfather (Father's Father) in Swedish. Very apropos. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cristobal" <crismunoz54@...> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 15:41 Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution It's cliché to bash Jaws, and though there is legitimate criticism to be made at this or that part of JFW, the free/cheaper alternatives really aren't going to give you what you need if you actually have to make heavy use of the word editing and spread sheet applications and other programs for a work related environment. The Jaws bugs with a certain aspect of IE or Firefox or maybe even Windows media can get on my nerves, but I can live with them because I am able to do so much with Word and Excel which are important to my ability to run my business and just get work done. Proof reading, track changes, multi-language switching in-depth spread sheet usage, digging around in Windows for this or that obscure setting or configuration, etc. Farting around online or emailing and having to review documents for a business proposal or preparing a budget for a customer with highlights, tables and god knows what else are two different things. Sometimes, you just have to pay or at the very least, you get what you pay for. And that hardly sounded like a threat. Luke, I am your father... -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:19 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, Whatever. Just hoping you'd come up with something to contribute, instead of simply to bash JAWS. We all have our peeves with JAWS, but at least we also add to the content with suggestions that build up while we criticize. This list is by nature an open forum, so my message to you was in that context -- an open invitation to express your reasons why JAWS is inferior to NVDA, or vice-versa. I personally tire of reading noise, and was hoping you had more to contribute. IF someone asking you a question is a threat, then you are on the wrong list. But thanks for replying, nonetheless. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 14:33 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution this sounds like a threat. I don't appreciate this. You are not my father, boss or even a person I know. So why should I discuss this or anything with you, a stranger. This feels like a long distance bully making demands. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201204 17/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Karen Hughes <khughes8@...> #9264 Dave Johnston, I did not do research on comparison on programs because I didn't know it was expected of me. nor do I think it is my job. if anyone wants to know the difference between programs they have computers and they can check it out themselves. there have been several emails by different folks complaining about problems with the jaws upgrades. I think it is sad that blind people have spent their money on these upgrades for jaws and disappointed with bad upgrades. in my mind if you purchase an upgrade it should work and be an improved version. it should not be with problems and be of lesser quality. it has just left me to scratch my head and wonder who is stirring the ship. it is a free country and we are left to check out the competition as to what else is out there good luck with your research, Karen toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Karen Hughes <khughes8@...> #9265 dave, i never received your request. perhaps, i deleted it without reading it. so sorry to disappoint you. karen toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...> #9267 Karen. Stirring the ship? You're funny! Anyway, if you don't like Jaws, use something else. There are lots of choices out there nowadays. -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING! http://www.ctsmastering.com Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt
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Gary King #9268 I guess that's supposed to read "steering the ship." I wasn't sure there for a minute. Your the one that stated that NVDA was just like JAWS, but free. We agree that it's free, but you didn't back up the rest of your statement with facts. That's where you got in trouble with Grandfather Dave and the rest of the list. BE careful what you say; we may ask you to prove it! Gary King w4wkz@... toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Cc: "Jim Noseworthy" <jim.noseworthy@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Dave Johnston, I did not do research on comparison on programs because I didn't know it was expected of me. nor do I think it is my job. if anyone wants to know the difference between programs they have computers and they can check it out themselves. there have been several emails by different folks complaining about problems with the jaws upgrades. I think it is sad that blind people have spent their money on these upgrades for jaws and disappointed with bad upgrades. in my mind if you purchase an upgrade it should work and be an improved version. it should not be with problems and be of lesser quality. it has just left me to scratch my head and wonder who is stirring the ship. it is a free country and we are left to check out the competition as to what else is out there good luck with your research, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave... #9269 Karen, In Human Relations, one of the most important things stressed is to always pay attention to a person's name, if you want their respect. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Cc: "Jim Noseworthy" <jim.noseworthy@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 17:49 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Dave Johnston, I did not do research on comparison on programs because I didn't know it was expected of me. nor do I think it is my job. if anyone wants to know the difference between programs they have computers and they can check it out themselves. there have been several emails by different folks complaining about problems with the jaws upgrades. I think it is sad that blind people have spent their money on these upgrades for jaws and disappointed with bad upgrades. in my mind if you purchase an upgrade it should work and be an improved version. it should not be with problems and be of lesser quality. it has just left me to scratch my head and wonder who is stirring the ship. it is a free country and we are left to check out the competition as to what else is out there good luck with your research, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave... #9272 Karen, In Human Relations, one of the most important things stressed is to always pay attention to a person's name, if you want their respect. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Cc: "Jim Noseworthy" <jim.noseworthy@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 17:49 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Dave Johnston, I did not do research on comparison on programs because I didn't know it was expected of me. nor do I think it is my job. if anyone wants to know the difference between programs they have computers and they can check it out themselves. there have been several emails by different folks complaining about problems with the jaws upgrades. I think it is sad that blind people have spent their money on these upgrades for jaws and disappointed with bad upgrades. in my mind if you purchase an upgrade it should work and be an improved version. it should not be with problems and be of lesser quality. it has just left me to scratch my head and wonder who is stirring the ship. it is a free country and we are left to check out the competition as to what else is out there good luck with your research, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar, Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday" <dgcarlson@...> To: "JFW Mailing List" <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen, You've been a staunch advocate of not updating JAWS and seeking out the alternatives that are available at no cost, such as NVDA. After your recent suggestion, I've asked politely if you would highlight the comparisons between JAWS and NVDA (we know about the price difference) and give us some perspective, from your experience, as to why it would make sense to not continue to purchase JAWS upgrades. Looking back at past messages, I've noticed that you occasionally post in a sort of "shoot and run" to suggest your opinions on no-cost or low-cost alternatives to JAWS and FS, but I have failed to see any substantive information to support your point of view in follow-up messages. So I throw down the gauntlet, so to speak and ask for you to give us something to "chew on" with regard using NVDA in lieu of JAWS in the Enterprise environment. I am sincerely interested. Thanks! Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120417/b949208c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave... #9273 Chris, You may not recall, but Karen is an Apple advocate, so perhaps she's writing all this on a Mac and has no access to, nor any interest in, JAWS or NVDA. I do wonder who is actually stirring the pot. I've just added her to my list where our nemesis Mostafa Al'mahdy resides. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 18:06 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen. Stirring the ship? You're funny! Anyway, if you don't like Jaws, use something else. There are lots of choices out there nowadays. -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING! http://www.ctsmastering.com Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...> #9278 Strange. Why she is on a Jaws list, I have no idea. Also, she's in Canada, and I would bet that the government paid for her computer, so her comments about blind people wasting their money on expensive Jaws probably don't even apply in her case. At 12:57 AM 4/18/2012, you wrote: Chris, You may not recall, but Karen is an Apple advocate, so perhaps she's writing all this on a Mac and has no access to, nor any interest in, JAWS or NVDA. I do wonder who is actually stirring the pot. I've just added her to my list where our nemesis Mostafa Al'mahdy resides. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@...> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 18:06 Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution Karen. Stirring the ship? You're funny! Anyway, if you don't like Jaws, use something else. There are lots of choices out there nowadays. -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING! http://www.ctsmastering.com Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING! http://www.ctsmastering.com Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...> #9279 Karen, I notice Cogeco is your internet provider. If that means you reside in Ontario, can I assume the Assistive Devices Program (ADP) paid for your computer? Why then, do you gripe about the high cost of Jaws, if you didn't have to pay for it? -------------------------------------------------- CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING! http://www.ctsmastering.com Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt
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Christopher Bartlett <themusicalbrewer@...> #9293 I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader, with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's worth, here are my experiences. NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works, it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and indicates some of its limitations. I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW, then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact with. NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature in a computing center environment. Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW. There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature. There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW. Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access is a lot more primitive. I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated content on successive web pages. In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a workable alternative have made this less urgent. And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change readers. Christopher Bartlett
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Dave... #9294 Christopher, Very nice. And that actually makes me want to try NVDA much more than what Karen provided. It does sound like NVDA may eventually grow in flexibility and functionality to give a viable alternative in my environment, which is heavily involved with Excel and Outlook, with some forays into Powerpoint and Word. Much appreciated. Dave Carlson Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Bartlett" <themusicalbrewer@...> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 13:16 Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader, with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's worth, here are my experiences. NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works, it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and indicates some of its limitations. I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW, then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact with. NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature in a computing center environment. Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW. There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature. There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW. Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access is a lot more primitive. I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated content on successive web pages. In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a workable alternative have made this less urgent. And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change readers. Christopher Bartlett _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) #9298 Nothing wrong with the right tool for the right job. Both the freebies I know about can be run in portable mode, which could be great for either location or occasional use. Ted toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader, with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's worth, here are my experiences. NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works, it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and indicates some of its limitations. I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW, then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact with. NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature in a computing center environment. Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW. There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature. There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW. Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access is a lot more primitive. I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated content on successive web pages. In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a workable alternative have made this less urgent. And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change readers. Christopher Bartlett _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@... http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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