Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Richard Holloway
 

I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience you may be able to share.

Richard


Matt Dierckens <matt.dierckens@...>
 

Hi,
There is a great program by American Printing House for the Blind caled Talking Typer. THis is a great resource for teaching children how to type. I'm not sure how much it is as an old teacher of mine had it installed on my computer for me at the time.
Hope this helps a little,
Cheers.

Matt
Sent from my macbook pro

On 2012-03-06, at 1:02 PM, Richard Holloway wrote:

I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience you may be able to share.

Richard
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Jimmy Jones
 

Usually you place markers on strategic keys. H and j on home row as well as
the enter key on that row. Maybe on the backspace and tab.

The three programs that are available for purchase is Talking Typer (APh)
Talking typing Teacher (Marval-soft) Typability but I don't know its maker.

There are also typing classess offered through the Hadley School for the
blind in Winnetka Il.

Hope this helps

Jimmy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Richard Holloway
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 1:03 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type on
a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much prefers to
use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping
a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for occasional use for certain
keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to use
a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS feedback
with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about the braille
key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have never yet found a
USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit) I get that
touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would be of little
use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get
reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to
learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the braille
and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad of
an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the best
ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

I never knew any way to learn touch typing except through orderly
repetition. Our typing teacher taught us the home keys, the home row,
and we gradually expanded from there until we could access the entire
keyboard--rather like learning Morse one character group at a time.

Of course, these were the old black and gray Royals--and I mean old! If
we could do that in 1963, I'm sure she'll do fine.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dierckens
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 1:13 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Hi,
There is a great program by American Printing House for the Blind caled
Talking Typer. THis is a great resource for teaching children how to
type. I'm not sure how much it is as an old teacher of mine had it
installed on my computer for me at the time.
Hope this helps a little,
Cheers.

Matt
Sent from my macbook pro

On 2012-03-06, at 1:02 PM, Richard Holloway wrote:

I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for
my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned
to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She
much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker
(Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer
for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn
to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2
style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille
key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted
typists, in that it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you
get distracted, etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It
would be easy enough to remove the braille and go with a standard
keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how
bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp--
I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of
the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Tom Lange
 

Hi,
Besides the Talking Typer program from American Printing House, there is TypeAbility, which was designed by an old friend of mine; it looks pretty good but I haven't used it extensively. There's also Talking Typing Teacher from MarvelSoft. I use it for touch typing instruction where I work. My students seem to find it useful, and, for those with low vision, the screen can be magnified and there are color schemes which make it easier. Be forewarned, though, that tech support for Talking Typing Teacher is absolutely abominable, the worst I've ever run across in my years in the AT business.

If you don't want to spring for one of those programs, good old keyboard help in JAWS (Insert+F1) will put you into keyboard explore mode where all your letters, numbers and punctuation will be spoken, along with other keys. It doesn't do well with modifier keys, though.

Hope this helps.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I never knew any way to learn touch typing except through orderly
repetition. Our typing teacher taught us the home keys, the home row,
and we gradually expanded from there until we could access the entire
keyboard--rather like learning Morse one character group at a time.

Of course, these were the old black and gray Royals--and I mean old! If
we could do that in 1963, I'm sure she'll do fine.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dierckens
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 1:13 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Hi,
There is a great program by American Printing House for the Blind caled
Talking Typer. THis is a great resource for teaching children how to
type. I'm not sure how much it is as an old teacher of mine had it
installed on my computer for me at the time.
Hope this helps a little,
Cheers.

Matt
Sent from my macbook pro

On 2012-03-06, at 1:02 PM, Richard Holloway wrote:

I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for
my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned
to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She
much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker
(Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer
for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn
to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2
style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille
key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted
typists, in that it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you
get distracted, etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It
would be easy enough to remove the braille and go with a standard
keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how
bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp--
I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of
the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Hi.

I'm glad you are kean to see your child learn to type on a qwerty keyboard. :)

I didn't learn to tyep on a modified keyboard. in fact, this was back in the 1980's when electric typewriters were common and manuals were still around. Lucky for me, my mom was a secretary at one time in her life, so she knew how to type properly.

Most computer keyboards have tactile markers on the F and J keys on the home ro already, where your index fingers should rest. I guess if you need more tactile marking you could simply add braille labels to a standard keyboard.

The process is about the same today as it was then. learn the home row and gradually add more letters, punctuation etc.

Use the propper fingers on the keys. It helps if whoever is teaching actually types properly as well! that is, no hunting and pecking, two-fingered looking at the keys typing, but propper touch typing without looking at the keys!

Typing to produce things in print for school, letters to my relatives, playing computer games, and other such activities meant that I was typing a lot, learned fast, and was typing at a good 70 words a minute by the time I entered high school. That's considerably faster than I've seen anybody go on a perkins style keyboard. The more you use your new skill to actually accomplish things, the faster it should come.

Learning that way also gave me a basic grasp of how sighted people like to see things laid out on the page. what margins were, centering... important spacial concepts.

I'm not saying go find an old typewriter and learn how I did. There must be some sort of accessible typing tutor software available. :)

Ah, Google just gave me this:
http://www.yesaccessible.com/

That looks like exactly what you need, Typeability 4.0.

I use their other product in my music work, so I can vouch for the excellent quality of David Pinto's scripts and documentation!

Chris

P.S. I hope your child is also using an abacus to learn basic math, to really get the basic principles ingrained early.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING!
http://www.ctsmastering.com

Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free
http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt


Richard Holloway
 

Thanks Chris,

My daughter has used several of the different programs. The only one she has really taken to is Talking Typing Teacher. Unfortunately has proven to be a little unstable on her computer, and we haven't had the best luck with tech support for the program.

Yes, she's using an cranmer abacus. I agree entirely-- important to know. Math is a challenge for her. She's a very good student but she has to work so hard to be successful with her math as opposed to other subjects. The abacus overall seems most useful. Math window is also very helpful to learn certain concepts, but terribly slow for use on many problems in a row. Some processes also need to be demonstrated on a brailler as well, which seems such an incredible hassle to work with for math problems.

I'll give another look towards Typeability. The CakeTalking software looks interesting as well. Appears to be JAWS friendly too. Is that the audio piece you are using? I'd love to find an accessible multitrack program she can use, though I don't know what sort of interface that program will work with either. I'll have to read up on it. I generally have to do all the button-pushing for her when she wants to do much in the multi-track realm. She's quite recording savvy. (I'm a recording engineer, so I'll take a bit of credit for that!) My first choice is usually Pro Tools on a Mac (if not conventional consoles and old analog recording gear), but I'm not aware of any reasonable adaptation of that package at all.

Thanks again,

Richard

On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Hi.

I'm glad you are kean to see your child learn to type on a qwerty keyboard. :)

I didn't learn to tyep on a modified keyboard. in fact, this was back in the 1980's when electric typewriters were common and manuals were still around. Lucky for me, my mom was a secretary at one time in her life, so she knew how to type properly.

Most computer keyboards have tactile markers on the F and J keys on the home ro already, where your index fingers should rest. I guess if you need more tactile marking you could simply add braille labels to a standard keyboard.

The process is about the same today as it was then. learn the home row and gradually add more letters, punctuation etc.

Use the propper fingers on the keys. It helps if whoever is teaching actually types properly as well! that is, no hunting and pecking, two-fingered looking at the keys typing, but propper touch typing without looking at the keys!

Typing to produce things in print for school, letters to my relatives, playing computer games, and other such activities meant that I was typing a lot, learned fast, and was typing at a good 70 words a minute by the time I entered high school. That's considerably faster than I've seen anybody go on a perkins style keyboard. The more you use your new skill to actually accomplish things, the faster it should come.

Learning that way also gave me a basic grasp of how sighted people like to see things laid out on the page. what margins were, centering... important spacial concepts.

I'm not saying go find an old typewriter and learn how I did. There must be some sort of accessible typing tutor software available. :)

Ah, Google just gave me this:
http://www.yesaccessible.com/

That looks like exactly what you need, Typeability 4.0.

I use their other product in my music work, so I can vouch for the excellent quality of David Pinto's scripts and documentation!

Chris

P.S. I hope your child is also using an abacus to learn basic math, to really get the basic principles ingrained early.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING!
http://www.ctsmastering.com

Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free
http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dondi
 

Hi Richard,

What works very well for me for tactile landmarks on the home row and
anywhere else I want is round Velcro pieces.

Dondi
We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Richard Holloway
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:50 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Thanks Chris,

My daughter has used several of the different programs. The only one she has
really taken to is Talking Typing Teacher. Unfortunately has proven to be a
little unstable on her computer, and we haven't had the best luck with tech
support for the program.

Yes, she's using an cranmer abacus. I agree entirely-- important to know.
Math is a challenge for her. She's a very good student but she has to work
so hard to be successful with her math as opposed to other subjects. The
abacus overall seems most useful. Math window is also very helpful to learn
certain concepts, but terribly slow for use on many problems in a row. Some
processes also need to be demonstrated on a brailler as well, which seems
such an incredible hassle to work with for math problems.

I'll give another look towards Typeability. The CakeTalking software looks
interesting as well. Appears to be JAWS friendly too. Is that the audio
piece you are using? I'd love to find an accessible multitrack program she
can use, though I don't know what sort of interface that program will work
with either. I'll have to read up on it. I generally have to do all the
button-pushing for her when she wants to do much in the multi-track realm.
She's quite recording savvy. (I'm a recording engineer, so I'll take a bit
of credit for that!) My first choice is usually Pro Tools on a Mac (if not
conventional consoles and old analog recording gear), but I'm not aware of
any reasonable adaptation of that package at all.

Thanks again,

Richard




On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Hi.

I'm glad you are kean to see your child learn to type on a qwerty
keyboard. :)

I didn't learn to tyep on a modified keyboard. in fact, this was back in
the 1980's when electric typewriters were common and manuals were still
around. Lucky for me, my mom was a secretary at one time in her life, so she
knew how to type properly.

Most computer keyboards have tactile markers on the F and J keys on the
home ro already, where your index fingers should rest. I guess if you need
more tactile marking you could simply add braille labels to a standard
keyboard.

The process is about the same today as it was then. learn the home row and
gradually add more letters, punctuation etc.

Use the propper fingers on the keys. It helps if whoever is teaching
actually types properly as well! that is, no hunting and pecking,
two-fingered looking at the keys typing, but propper touch typing without
looking at the keys!

Typing to produce things in print for school, letters to my relatives,
playing computer games, and other such activities meant that I was typing a
lot, learned fast, and was typing at a good 70 words a minute by the time I
entered high school. That's considerably faster than I've seen anybody go
on a perkins style keyboard. The more you use your new skill to actually
accomplish things, the faster it should come.

Learning that way also gave me a basic grasp of how sighted people like to
see things laid out on the page. what margins were, centering... important
spacial concepts.

I'm not saying go find an old typewriter and learn how I did. There
must be some sort of accessible typing tutor software available. :)

Ah, Google just gave me this:
http://www.yesaccessible.com/

That looks like exactly what you need, Typeability 4.0.

I use their other product in my music work, so I can vouch for the
excellent quality of David Pinto's scripts and documentation!

Chris

P.S. I hope your child is also using an abacus to learn basic math, to
really get the basic principles ingrained early.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING!
http://www.ctsmastering.com

Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free
http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Hi Richard, ProTools is marginally accessible on the MAC with VoiceOver, the built-in screen reader with OS X. But, plug-in windows and any MIDI features are not yet accessible. You can read about CakeTalking and sonar, and listen to an extensive audio demonstration of what you can accomplish with it at:
http://www.dancingdots.com/prodesc/CakeTalkingForSONAR.htm
CakeTalking also comes with hundreds of pages of tutorial help.

As for an interface, do you mean a keyboard, an audio interface, what exactly? Feel free to take this off-list, since we're straying away from Jaws.
Chris
P.S. Yes an abacus and working problems out on the Brailler are time consuming, but it's the closest thing we have to doing that with pencil and paper.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING!
http://www.ctsmastering.com

Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free
http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt


Cy Selfridge
 

Hi Richard,
A couple of suggestions:
Put blanks on the keyboard that way the student will have to learn touch
typing. I could not touch type until I lost all of my sight and then it
seemed to just come naturally.
Also, how about one of those old type slates? It is a (used to be metal)
board with many holes in it, much like a mini peg board. The "type" are lead
little slugs with a bar on one end and, as I recall, 2 dots on the other
end. You place the problem on the slate by using the "type" and thus the
student can really "see" the problem and work out the solution.
Sorry for the poor description of the type slate and, hopefully, someone
will do a better job.
As for the abacus, it is a great invention and I know many people who are
adept at its use. They are faster than most people with a calculator.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Richard Holloway
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:50 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Thanks Chris,

My daughter has used several of the different programs. The only one she has
really taken to is Talking Typing Teacher. Unfortunately has proven to be a
little unstable on her computer, and we haven't had the best luck with tech
support for the program.

Yes, she's using an cranmer abacus. I agree entirely-- important to know.
Math is a challenge for her. She's a very good student but she has to work
so hard to be successful with her math as opposed to other subjects. The
abacus overall seems most useful. Math window is also very helpful to learn
certain concepts, but terribly slow for use on many problems in a row. Some
processes also need to be demonstrated on a brailler as well, which seems
such an incredible hassle to work with for math problems.

I'll give another look towards Typeability. The CakeTalking software looks
interesting as well. Appears to be JAWS friendly too. Is that the audio
piece you are using? I'd love to find an accessible multitrack program she
can use, though I don't know what sort of interface that program will work
with either. I'll have to read up on it. I generally have to do all the
button-pushing for her when she wants to do much in the multi-track realm.
She's quite recording savvy. (I'm a recording engineer, so I'll take a bit
of credit for that!) My first choice is usually Pro Tools on a Mac (if not
conventional consoles and old analog recording gear), but I'm not aware of
any reasonable adaptation of that package at all.

Thanks again,

Richard




On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Hi.

I'm glad you are kean to see your child learn to type on a qwerty
keyboard. :)

I didn't learn to tyep on a modified keyboard. in fact, this was back in
the 1980's when electric typewriters were common and manuals were still
around. Lucky for me, my mom was a secretary at one time in her life, so she
knew how to type properly.

Most computer keyboards have tactile markers on the F and J keys on the
home ro already, where your index fingers should rest. I guess if you need
more tactile marking you could simply add braille labels to a standard
keyboard.

The process is about the same today as it was then. learn the home row and
gradually add more letters, punctuation etc.

Use the propper fingers on the keys. It helps if whoever is teaching
actually types properly as well! that is, no hunting and pecking,
two-fingered looking at the keys typing, but propper touch typing without
looking at the keys!

Typing to produce things in print for school, letters to my relatives,
playing computer games, and other such activities meant that I was typing a
lot, learned fast, and was typing at a good 70 words a minute by the time I
entered high school. That's considerably faster than I've seen anybody go
on a perkins style keyboard. The more you use your new skill to actually
accomplish things, the faster it should come.

Learning that way also gave me a basic grasp of how sighted people like to
see things laid out on the page. what margins were, centering... important
spacial concepts.

I'm not saying go find an old typewriter and learn how I did. There must
be some sort of accessible typing tutor software available. :)

Ah, Google just gave me this:
http://www.yesaccessible.com/

That looks like exactly what you need, Typeability 4.0.

I use their other product in my music work, so I can vouch for the
excellent quality of David Pinto's scripts and documentation!

Chris

P.S. I hope your child is also using an abacus to learn basic math, to
really get the basic principles ingrained early.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING!
http://www.ctsmastering.com

Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free
http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Charles Krugman
 

Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At thattime my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope this helps.
Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dave...
 

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics -- or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Kimsan Song <kimsansong@...>
 

Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics -- or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Stephanie Switzer
 

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the braille
overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept slipping
off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my Vision
impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I started
writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher
said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the
chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use one until
resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics --
or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At
thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time
while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard
whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my
child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for
occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in
that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Lois
 

You can ppurchase braille/print labels for qwerty keyboards from
http://www.hooleon.com/

Lois Goodine.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie Switzer" <emmanrusty@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the braille
overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept slipping
off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my Vision
impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I started
writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher
said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the
chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use one until
resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics --
or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At
thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time
while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard
whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my
child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for
occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in
that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Typing is learned gradually, usually starting with the home row. No labels were needed when I was ten and learning how to type, on an actual typewriter. That's how long ago it was. *laugh*
Consult any book on typing.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536
Dropbox: Have your stuff when you need it. 2GB is free: http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt


Matt Dierckens <matt.dierckens@...>
 

Hi,
I am not sure if it's still being developed or not, but talking typing teacher is another good program. Made by a Canadian company, and you can purchase it from www.braillebookstore.com.
HTH
Matt
Sent from my mac
Twitter: matt692
msn: matt692@live.com
skype: blindman3221

On 2012-06-25, at 4:17 PM, Stephanie Switzer wrote:

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the braille
overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept slipping
off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my Vision
impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I started
writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher
said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the
chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use one until
resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics --
or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At
thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time
while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard
whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my
child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for
occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in
that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Bill Spiry
 

Just a couple of hints for speed once your "touch typing" starts to
establish... I like placing two or three very small tactile bumps (buy em by
the sheet from Maxi Aids) at a couple of outside keys for reference. Helps
me keep from drifting off on the reach keys when I get smoking.
Suggested keys for bumps would be the left Shift lock (JAWS alternative
insert on laptop layout), the Tilde key (just to the left of the #1 on top),
the Return key and the backspase key. I find these help keep me in the
"frame" for everything else around the edges when the pinky goes for a
stretch.
Some may also appreciate a tiny dot on the #5 key on the top row as well as
it helps have a bit more certainty when doing numbers via touch technique.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the braille
overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept slipping
off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my Vision
impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I started
writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher
said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the
chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use one until
resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics --
or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old
manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At
thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized
the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM.
If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper
fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time
while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard
whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my
child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for
occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in
that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

I guess every school for the blind in the country taught typing, even
back in The Bronze Age. I've heard Ronnie Millsap joke that they only
did it so the house parents wouldn't have to help write letters home,
but it turned out to be one of the best investments of time I ever
made--and I did it for 7 of my 12 years, never dreaming what lay down
the road.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can remember
they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've learned the
entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't really necessary
because the F and J keys have a line or a dot (depending on how old the
computer is) on them. When I took Keyboarding in school the teacher made
us learn touch typing. (I took it with sighted kids because I was main
streamed.) I tried the braille overlays when I was about your daughter's
age and they kept slipping off the keyboard (Do those still exist?)
Finally one of my Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking
typer. Anyway I started writing this to point out that most sighted
people don't look at the keyboard while they type, so why should we? :)
I'm only saying the "sighted people" part because I remember that my
keyboarding teacher said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing
your daughter the chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use
one until resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my
parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a
day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other
topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard
showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is
about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she needs
to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same method
that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for
years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was encouraged for
totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice
for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and
learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn
qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer
and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in
on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn
to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using
JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed?
What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for
keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only
an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing
down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is
is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when
your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn
qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the
braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional
keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how
bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any
experience you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Cy Selfridge
 

Hi,
There is no excuse for *not* learning touch typing.
The secretaries all have to touch type because they are looking at their
short hand to see what they are supposed to say.
660 words per minute is pretty much the norm for a good typest (I ain't no
where near there - LOLLOLLOL) and you can not reach anything near that speed
by looking at the keyboard. JMO, Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I guess every school for the blind in the country taught typing, even back
in The Bronze Age. I've heard Ronnie Millsap joke that they only did it so
the house parents wouldn't have to help write letters home, but it turned
out to be one of the best investments of time I ever made--and I did it for
7 of my 12 years, never dreaming what lay down the road.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can remember they
introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've learned the entire
keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't really necessary because the
F and J keys have a line or a dot (depending on how old the computer is) on
them. When I took Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch
typing. (I took it with sighted kids because I was main
streamed.) I tried the braille overlays when I was about your daughter's age
and they kept slipping off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one
of my Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I
started writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the "sighted
people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher said it over and
over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the chance to use a quarity
keyboard. I didn't get to use one until resently. Though that was more the
school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a
day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other
topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard
showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is
about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she needs
to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same method
that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for
years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was encouraged for
totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice
for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and
learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn
qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer
and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in
on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn
to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using
JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed?
What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for
keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only
an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing
down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is
is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when
your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn
qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the
braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional
keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how
bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any
experience you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com