Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Dave...
 

Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development, etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support (and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


cecropia64
 

good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development, etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support (and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly, that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Richard Holloway
 

Thanks, I agree with your position too with just a slight twist-- surely there are vastly more Windows and Apple users and the cost to develop is the key factor to divide out per license. I also suspect that support may be more complicated (costly per user) with JAWS, partly because there are so many fewer users such that more of the problems have to get solved by FS directly, as opposed to in forums like this-- just a gut feeing there.

The fact remains however that there is no real "Pepsi" to their "Coke" (maybe there is the odd "store brand" cola), and that always leaves more room for the one item I think you did leave from your list: profit margin.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:

Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development, etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.


wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.

On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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Dave...
 

Ed,

Nice. Without your experience I could not have come even close to stating it
so eloquently.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:04
Subject: RE: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
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wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
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Dave...
 

Richard,

Ed put it forth very well, but you mentioned profit margin, which of course
keeps FS operating. Presuming that they are privately-owned, the profit goes
back into development and other recurring costs, after removing the money
that the owners need to put food on their own tables and for investments and
for retirement, perhaps. There is definitely a profit motive -- it's the
economic engine that drives so much of our lives, for good or bad.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:10
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Thanks, I agree with your position too with just a slight twist-- surely
there are vastly more Windows and Apple users and the cost to develop is the
key factor to divide out per license. I also suspect that support may be
more complicated (costly per user) with JAWS, partly because there are so
many fewer users such that more of the problems have to get solved by FS
directly, as opposed to in forums like this-- just a gut feeing there.

The fact remains however that there is no real "Pepsi" to their "Coke"
(maybe there is the odd "store brand" cola), and that always leaves more
room for the one item I think you did leave from your list: profit margin.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:

Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


sandy stegmayer <ssteg@...>
 

It's none of your business. FS is a private company functioning in a capitalist country... Thank heavens. If there were no such thing as a profit margin, what would be the motivation tpo invest very large sums of money into R&D.
Yes, computers have been wonderful for the blind but amazingly some of us old folks managed to get through school and get jobs back in the "Dark Ages" or should I say BC (before computers).

Don't you think it's about time to end this conversation. I thought the list's purpose had something to do with helping it's members with tasks relevent to JAWS usage.

Sandy


--------------------------------------------------
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:16 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
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Sugar <sugarsyl71@...>
 

Amen, thank you sandy.
this is getting very old
sugar

"Let Your Light So Shine before men,
so that they may see your good works and glorify our heavenly father in heaven.
`Matthew 5:16"
~Be Blessed, Sugar

----- Original Message -----
From: "sandy stegmayer" <ssteg@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


It's none of your business. FS is a private company functioning in a capitalist country... Thank heavens. If there were no such thing as a profit margin, what would be the motivation tpo invest very large sums of money into R&D.
Yes, computers have been wonderful for the blind but amazingly some of us old folks managed to get through school and get jobs back in the "Dark Ages" or should I say BC (before computers).

Don't you think it's about time to end this conversation. I thought the list's purpose had something to do with helping it's members with tasks relevent to JAWS usage.

Sandy


--------------------------------------------------
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:16 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
#############################################################################################################

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deadcatbounce <JAWS@...>
 

I would hope that if you're able to purchase a computer that you would be able to afford the software you would want to use on it as well.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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deadcatbounce <JAWS@...>
 

I don't believe that FS is publically traded.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
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#############################################################################################################

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cecropia64
 

i think the whole thing is that when someone has a label put on them such as "blind" or"disabled", all bets are off and the companies who make products for that very specialized market have a field day with it. they know we need many of their products and i don't think they really care too much as long as they sell what they make. but if someone in their realm of reality gets hit with the same label, they react very differently. then everything is too expensive and they think it's unfair. funny when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?

On 2/4/2012 1:41 PM, deadcatbounce wrote:
I don't believe that FS is publically traded.
----- Original Message ----- From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
#############################################################################################################

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@...>
 

And worst of all is that there's actually blind people working for FS
and they know exactly what we need and that we have no other options
but to pay for the product.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
i think the whole thing is that when someone has a label put on them
such as "blind" or"disabled", all bets are off and the companies who
make products for that very specialized market have a field day with
it. they know we need many of their products and i don't think they
really care too much as long as they sell what they make. but if
someone in their realm of reality gets hit with the same label, they
react very differently. then everything is too expensive and they think
it's unfair. funny when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?

On 2/4/2012 1:41 PM, deadcatbounce wrote:
I don't believe that FS is publically traded.
----- Original Message ----- From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it
make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price
discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the
disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than
101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can
discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those
who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't
buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be
smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions
that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no
possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price
jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world
countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten
illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The
effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the
above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn
from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the
process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say
the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i
certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price
charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for
development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in
Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of
users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying
for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be
much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you
support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really
foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer
is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts.
At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough
people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I
don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday,
February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants
short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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Adrian Spratt
 

Freedom scientific is a company that emerged from the combination of three
existing access technology companies at the beginning of the last decade.
Richard Chandler reportedly came up with the idea as pricing power became
more problematical for his previous company, Sunrise Medical. A starting
point for anyone interested is a 2001 Accessworld article at
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw020102in

Even in a capitalist system, industries are treated differently from others
if they are deemed essential to a functioning community. Electric, gas and
water utilities are subject to varying degrees of regulation. Capitalism
promotes initiative, and disabled people have benefited from so many
accessibility initiatives, among them screenreaders. But people like Juan
and Wogg, who seem to be saying that JAWS has the attributes of a utility in
the lives of disabled people, do raise valid concerns.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar and His Beamer
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:16 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Ed,

Nice. Without your experience I could not have come even close to stating it
so eloquently.

Dave Carlson Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:04
Subject: RE: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot. Those who can pay more are
charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay the high price, pay less. So,
the firm makes more money on those who can pay and makes incremental revenue
on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I could demonstrate this geometrically,
but that's a little beyond the purpose of this list. The above principle
would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to discriminate in
price. There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions
that tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization. First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no
possibility for arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price
jurisdiction to sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with
the firm. Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on
this very list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly, that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world
countries than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified). I'm not
making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above actually
articulated. So, unfortunately, that's the way it is. As much as you would
like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its paw, it is still
likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't afford
to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because they
can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't have
access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I say
that computer access very definitely is a human right for the blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote: good point. i still don't
like some of this stuff, but i certainly do get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote: Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development, etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support (and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7 yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices
of this stuff is so out of reach for many. because of slimy people like this
guy who wants short cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal
to all of you who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us
who try to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote: this is not the place for this kind of
thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!


wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

What did you end up doing before Computers?

And is FS actually a private company - a close corporation - or is it
quoted on the stock market?

If the latter, then its accounts ought to be available publicly.

Even if it's actually private (closely held) most jurisdictions
require that it files accounts.

On 2/4/12, Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@gmail.com> wrote:
And worst of all is that there's actually blind people working for FS
and they know exactly what we need and that we have no other options
but to pay for the product.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
i think the whole thing is that when someone has a label put on them
such as "blind" or"disabled", all bets are off and the companies who
make products for that very specialized market have a field day with
it. they know we need many of their products and i don't think they
really care too much as long as they sell what they make. but if
someone in their realm of reality gets hit with the same label, they
react very differently. then everything is too expensive and they think
it's unfair. funny when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?

On 2/4/2012 1:41 PM, deadcatbounce wrote:
I don't believe that FS is publically traded.
----- Original Message ----- From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it
make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price
discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the
disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than
101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can
discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those
who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't
buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be
smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions
that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no
possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price
jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world
countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten
illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The
effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the
above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn
from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the
process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say
the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i
certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price
charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for
development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in
Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of
users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying
for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be
much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you
support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really
foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer
is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts.
At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough
people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I
don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday,
February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants
short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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#############################################################################################################


ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################


This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

The prices of medical devices are regulated right across Europe.
That doesn't mean that capitalism is abolished. Still lot's of money
to be made if you come up with cool new drugs that save lives. Still a
return on investment.

However, the Government make's sure that there isn't this kind of
price gouging. If blind people were a significant constituency, in
electoral terms, something similar would have been attempted.

Previous argument remind's me of the line in Totel Recall where the
Governer of Mars says that if "if you don't want to buy our air, you
don't have to breathe"

On 2/4/12, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@adrianspratt.com> wrote:
Freedom scientific is a company that emerged from the combination of three
existing access technology companies at the beginning of the last decade.
Richard Chandler reportedly came up with the idea as pricing power became
more problematical for his previous company, Sunrise Medical. A starting
point for anyone interested is a 2001 Accessworld article at
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw020102in

Even in a capitalist system, industries are treated differently from others
if they are deemed essential to a functioning community. Electric, gas and
water utilities are subject to varying degrees of regulation. Capitalism
promotes initiative, and disabled people have benefited from so many
accessibility initiatives, among them screenreaders. But people like Juan
and Wogg, who seem to be saying that JAWS has the attributes of a utility in
the lives of disabled people, do raise valid concerns.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar and His Beamer
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:16 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Ed,

Nice. Without your experience I could not have come even close to stating it
so eloquently.

Dave Carlson Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:04
Subject: RE: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot. Those who can pay more are
charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay the high price, pay less. So,
the firm makes more money on those who can pay and makes incremental revenue
on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I could demonstrate this geometrically,
but that's a little beyond the purpose of this list. The above principle
would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to discriminate in
price. There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions
that tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization. First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no
possibility for arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price
jurisdiction to sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with
the firm. Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on
this very list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly, that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world
countries than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified). I'm not
making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above actually
articulated. So, unfortunately, that's the way it is. As much as you would
like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its paw, it is still
likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't afford
to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because they
can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't have
access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I say
that computer access very definitely is a human right for the blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote: good point. i still don't
like some of this stuff, but i certainly do get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote: Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development, etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support (and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7 yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices
of this stuff is so out of reach for many. because of slimy people like this
guy who wants short cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal
to all of you who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us
who try to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote: this is not the place for this kind of
thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


sandy stegmayer <ssteg@...>
 

Before computers I used readers, braille and recorded books. I completged much of my graduate school education before computers. Ath the time I worked as a teacher of kids with learning disabilities. It wasn't easy and it took more time for me to complete tasks than my sighted peers but I did it. As I told my students, life isn't, not will it ever be, fair and if you want to succeed you need to put out the extra effort to be/do what you want. Unfortunately manu blind ( and sighted too) people allow well meaning people to "enable" them. From all the blind persons I have known, the happiest and most productive are those who have been responsible for themselves and have worked hard with the opportunities they have had... and haven't had.
Please, I don't mean to offend anyone but the tome of many of the posts have taken a "poor me" tone. In the long run, that is not helpful. And as for pirating, it is nothing more than theft and in my opinion, that is breaking the law and there sould be some sort of negative consequences.

Sandy


--------------------------------------------------
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:15 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

What did you end up doing before Computers?

And is FS actually a private company - a close corporation - or is it
quoted on the stock market?

If the latter, then its accounts ought to be available publicly.

Even if it's actually private (closely held) most jurisdictions
require that it files accounts.



On 2/4/12, Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@gmail.com> wrote:
And worst of all is that there's actually blind people working for FS
and they know exactly what we need and that we have no other options
but to pay for the product.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
i think the whole thing is that when someone has a label put on them
such as "blind" or"disabled", all bets are off and the companies who
make products for that very specialized market have a field day with
it. they know we need many of their products and i don't think they
really care too much as long as they sell what they make. but if
someone in their realm of reality gets hit with the same label, they
react very differently. then everything is too expensive and they think
it's unfair. funny when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?

On 2/4/2012 1:41 PM, deadcatbounce wrote:
I don't believe that FS is publically traded.
----- Original Message ----- From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it
make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price
discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the
disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than
101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can
discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those
who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't
buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be
smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions
that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no
possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price
jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world
countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten
illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The
effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the
above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn
from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the
process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say
the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i
certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price
charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for
development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in
Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of
users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying
for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be
much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you
support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really
foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer
is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts.
At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough
people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I
don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday,
February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants
short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Charles Coe
 

Before computers the blind did what others did, make do with what was
available. Jobs for the blind were not easily acquired and accessing info
was very difficult to say the least.

Computers in the 80s were in the several thousands of dollars and text to
speech software was over $1,000 not to mention the synthesizer cost that had
to be purchased in order to accommodate the text to speech software. Yes
there was more than one or two companies who produced screen readers, but
they are no longer in business.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:16 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

What did you end up doing before Computers?

And is FS actually a private company - a close corporation - or is it quoted
on the stock market?

If the latter, then its accounts ought to be available publicly.

Even if it's actually private (closely held) most jurisdictions require that
it files accounts.



On 2/4/12, Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@gmail.com> wrote:
And worst of all is that there's actually blind people working for FS
and they know exactly what we need and that we have no other options
but to pay for the product.

On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
i think the whole thing is that when someone has a label put on them
such as "blind" or"disabled", all bets are off and the companies who
make products for that very specialized market have a field day with
it. they know we need many of their products and i don't think they
really care too much as long as they sell what they make. but if
someone in their realm of reality gets hit with the same label, they
react very differently. then everything is too expensive and they
think it's unfair. funny when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?

On 2/4/2012 1:41 PM, deadcatbounce wrote:
I don't believe that FS is publically traded.
----- Original Message ----- From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it
make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price
discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument
is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates
are blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this
instead of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a
way of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets
where the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is
on the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the
disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection
than 101, it is an accepted principle of economics that a firm
which can discriminate in price will make more money than one
which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise
couldn't pay the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more
money on those who can pay and makes incremental revenue on those
who otherwise wouldn't buy. I could demonstrate this
geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose of this
list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would
be smart to discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and
assumptions that tend to undermine the price discrimination
strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no
possibility for arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the
low-price jurisdiction to sell into the high price jurisdiction
in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on
this very list points out the problem. It is generally believed,
rightly or wrongly, that regard for copyright rules and laws is
less in third world countries than is the case here. So, firms
often believe that for every one legitimate copy of a product
sold into a third world country, ten illegal copies will be made.
So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of the piracy
is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all
the above actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the
thorn from its paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while
you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who
can't afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well
because they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people
don't have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general
community. I say that computer access very definitely is a human
right for the blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say
the 3rd world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind
people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i
certainly do get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price
charged for a product is based on what it cost to develop, what
it costs to duplicate, what it costs to support, what the
employees earn in salary, what it costs to rent the building,
what the next version will need for development, etc.; all
divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in
Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of
users so a large cost borne by a small group = high cost per
copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell
Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We
had no alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS
available for our young daughter to grow up with and learn
about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have
the same problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep
actually paying for them as opposed to choosing the route of
theft, which would clearly be much more practical for my family
financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you
support (and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really
foolish to me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy
of the program easily and legally for as long as you like (to
my understanding) with free upgrades and all, but apparently
the frequent restarting of the computer is too inconvenient for
you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag about
it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding,
the product is still being paid for. The issue is that the
company and PEOPLE who develop and support the product also
have to get paid for their efforts.
At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if
enough people are stealing their products they'll just stop
developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I
don't get paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of
business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday,
February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff
is so out of reach for many. because of slimy people like
this guy who wants short cuts instead of doing things the
correct way. thanks pal to all of you who try similar things
it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to do things
the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the- jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg
le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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