Advice needed


Susan Ledder <susan.e.ledder@...>
 

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to a
database type management software for all our records. I am currently using
Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at several
demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of the fields or
forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are currently looking at
"Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone" and "Church Management
Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software with a
picture imbedded.



Susan

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Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Those are a little off the beaten path. You might try quizzing the
manufacturers on the subject of assistive technology, but, chances are
they'll work fine out of the box.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Susan Ledder
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Advice needed

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to
a database type management software for all our records. I am currently
using Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at
several demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of
the fields or forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are
currently looking at "Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone"
and "Church Management Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software
with a picture imbedded.



Susan

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Adrian Spratt
 

Ted,

I'm surprised to find you this optimistic, considering your past comments
here on access to MS Access.

These applications are, indeed, obscure. It was a good idea to contact this
list, just in case someone does have information. I'd also call Freedom
Scientific to ask if they have experience with any of them. Then, as you
said, I'd contact the application's tech people to see how aware they are of
assistive technology.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:15 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Advice needed

Those are a little off the beaten path. You might try quizzing the
manufacturers on the subject of assistive technology, but, chances are
they'll work fine out of the box.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Susan Ledder
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Advice needed

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to a
database type management software for all our records. I am currently using
Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at several
demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of the fields or
forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are currently looking at
"Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone"
and "Church Management Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software with a
picture imbedded.



Susan

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Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

That issue pertained to 11 and 12, but I haven't had enough experience
with other Windows database managers to generalize. I guess my reason
for optimism is JAWS overall track record. It's inherent in the nature
of the list that we spend most of our time analyzing gotchas and
glitches, but it handles obscure programs better than most.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:39 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Advice needed

Ted,

I'm surprised to find you this optimistic, considering your past
comments here on access to MS Access.

These applications are, indeed, obscure. It was a good idea to contact
this list, just in case someone does have information. I'd also call
Freedom Scientific to ask if they have experience with any of them.
Then, as you said, I'd contact the application's tech people to see how
aware they are of assistive technology.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:15 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Advice needed

Those are a little off the beaten path. You might try quizzing the
manufacturers on the subject of assistive technology, but, chances are
they'll work fine out of the box.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Susan Ledder
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Advice needed

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to
a database type management software for all our records. I am currently
using Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at
several demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of
the fields or forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are
currently looking at "Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone"
and "Church Management Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software
with a picture imbedded.



Susan

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John ESherrer
 

You can look at the training information on Excel from the Freedom
Scientific web site and see if Excel will meet your needs. You would have
to get a trial version of those other software packages to find out if any
will work.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Susan Ledder
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Advice needed

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to a
database type management software for all our records. I am currently using
Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at several
demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of the fields or
forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are currently looking at
"Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone" and "Church Management
Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software with a
picture imbedded.



Susan

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Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

Sorry to be a little late here. I really think you have to try the applications with demonstration installation. Usually, these will run for 30 days and then die. You can talk to the software vendors and ask about accessibility, but that is usually a waste. Sighted developers almost never have a clue. At the same time, you do not want to take months installing and uninstalling demo packages. From my experience, here is how to put a priority on your testing:
1. Anything that is "on-line" or "web-based," meaning that you really don't install anything locally, but access everything through a browser should be immediately sorted to the bottom of the list. There are a few exceptions, but my experience is that anything which is Web-based is slower, more awkward, and likely to be loaded with inaccessible garbage that some programmer thought was cute or pretty.
2. Do your research and read the reviews on the software. If sighted reviewers are excited about the interface, sort those near the bottom. There almost seems to be an inverse relationship between how the sighted world rates an interface and accessibility. If a reviewer criticizes an interface as "old-fashioned" or "clunky," sort those applications toward the top.
3. Again, gleaning from reviews of the software, the more times you hear "drag and drop" the further down the priority list the software should go.
None of the above is fail-safe, and there are always exceptions, but if you follow the above, you should hit something that works sooner rather than later.
You should also remember that JAWS has some amazing features that make some pretty bad applications work pretty well.
For instance, fields that have no labels can be labeled in JAWS. Some fields that appear to be inaccessible can often be reached using the JAWS cursor. It doesn't always take longer with the JAWS cursor. The Applications Key is your friend. Some functions that require lots of mouse clicks can be reached in a menu with the applications key, which is the rough equivalent of a right mouse click.
Your pastor is right, church records cannot be handled effectively with Excel. You need a relational database that handles one-to-many relationships. There used to be a DOS-based integrated package called Enable, with a little thought, you could design a church database application that could (and did) run circles around the commercial databases. Relational database theory, alas, is outside the scope of this list.
Good luck!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of John Sherrer
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:59 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Advice needed

You can look at the training information on Excel from the Freedom
Scientific web site and see if Excel will meet your needs. You would have
to get a trial version of those other software packages to find out if any
will work.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Susan Ledder
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Advice needed

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to a
database type management software for all our records. I am currently using
Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at several
demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of the fields or
forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are currently looking at
"Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone" and "Church Management
Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software with a
picture imbedded.



Susan

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John ESherrer
 

This email is very good, I will save it.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 2:47 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Advice needed

Sorry to be a little late here. I really think you have to try the
applications with demonstration installation. Usually, these will run for
30 days and then die. You can talk to the software vendors and ask about
accessibility, but that is usually a waste. Sighted developers almost never
have a clue. At the same time, you do not want to take months installing
and uninstalling demo packages. From my experience, here is how to put a
priority on your testing:
1. Anything that is "on-line" or "web-based," meaning that you really don't
install anything locally, but access everything through a browser should be
immediately sorted to the bottom of the list. There are a few exceptions,
but my experience is that anything which is Web-based is slower, more
awkward, and likely to be loaded with inaccessible garbage that some
programmer thought was cute or pretty.
2. Do your research and read the reviews on the software. If sighted
reviewers are excited about the interface, sort those near the bottom.
There almost seems to be an inverse relationship between how the sighted
world rates an interface and accessibility. If a reviewer criticizes an
interface as "old-fashioned" or "clunky," sort those applications toward the
top.
3. Again, gleaning from reviews of the software, the more times you hear
"drag and drop" the further down the priority list the software should go.
None of the above is fail-safe, and there are always exceptions, but if you
follow the above, you should hit something that works sooner rather than
later.
You should also remember that JAWS has some amazing features that make some
pretty bad applications work pretty well.
For instance, fields that have no labels can be labeled in JAWS. Some
fields that appear to be inaccessible can often be reached using the JAWS
cursor. It doesn't always take longer with the JAWS cursor. The
Applications Key is your friend. Some functions that require lots of mouse
clicks can be reached in a menu with the applications key, which is the
rough equivalent of a right mouse click.
Your pastor is right, church records cannot be handled effectively with
Excel. You need a relational database that handles one-to-many
relationships. There used to be a DOS-based integrated package called
Enable, with a little thought, you could design a church database
application that could (and did) run circles around the commercial
databases. Relational database theory, alas, is outside the scope of this
list.
Good luck!


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of John Sherrer
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:59 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Advice needed

You can look at the training information on Excel from the Freedom
Scientific web site and see if Excel will meet your needs. You would have
to get a trial version of those other software packages to find out if any
will work.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Susan Ledder
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Advice needed

Hi,

I am an office manager for 3 churches and my pastor wants us to go to a
database type management software for all our records. I am currently using
Microsoft Excel.



Does anyone use this type of software with Jaws? I have looked at several
demos and purchased one only to find out later that not all of the fields or
forms are available to a non-sighted user. We are currently looking at
"Church Windows", "Excellerate", "Fellowshipone" and "Church Management
Online".



We need one that will integrate financial records with the membership
records and we want to be able to make a directory with the software with a
picture imbedded.



Susan

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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
############################################################################
#################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
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message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
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