JAWS and a tree view


Dondi
 

Hi Everyone,



I'm looking to figure out if something is a feature of JAWS or a program. I
have a new program I'm trying out called Treepad business edition which is a
more advance version then I was using before which is called Treepad lite.
In the lite version I have a tree view of objects just like you would see in
Windows explorer tree view. I will hear JAWS saying object closed or open
depending on whether I right arrow or left arrow opening or closing the
object just like in explorer and the folder tree view. JAWS will also
announce what level I am on in the tree view. This is the lite version of
Treepad in the business version it doesn't say anything. Does anybody have
any ideas how two programs made by the same company would sound different
when I run them with JAWS 12. By the way I'm running Windows 7 32 bit.



Dondi

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Soronel Haetir
 

First I would try the window class reassign, JAWS+F2, then "Window
class reassign" and go from there.

Is the business edition of the same version (1 or 2008 or whatever) as
the lite version? If not I could also see them having moved to less
accessible presentation technology. Unfortunately a great many of the
things MS has been pushing lately suffer greatly as far as
accessibility goes, despite the potential being present to do much
more.

On 12/29/11, Dondi <zidnod63@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone,



I'm looking to figure out if something is a feature of JAWS or a program. I
have a new program I'm trying out called Treepad business edition which is a
more advance version then I was using before which is called Treepad lite.
In the lite version I have a tree view of objects just like you would see in
Windows explorer tree view. I will hear JAWS saying object closed or open
depending on whether I right arrow or left arrow opening or closing the
object just like in explorer and the folder tree view. JAWS will also
announce what level I am on in the tree view. This is the lite version of
Treepad in the business version it doesn't say anything. Does anybody have
any ideas how two programs made by the same company would sound different
when I run them with JAWS 12. By the way I'm running Windows 7 32 bit.



Dondi

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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com


Dondi
 

Hi,

Here's what I heard back from the people at the Treepad company right after
I posted my question to the list.

Thank you for contacting TreePad support.

The difference regarding the tree pane between TreePad Lite and TreePad
Business Edition is that TreePad Lite uses the standard Windows tree control
(a dll inside the Windows directory), while TreePad Business Edition uses a
custom tree control (compiled into the program).

The standard windows tree control is a deliberately crippled and slowed down
thing - we cannot use it for more powerful programs such as TreePad Business
Edition and TreePad X Enterprise. It will become very slow when the number
of nodes increases above a certain point. The cause for this problem is that
Microsoft does not want competing software companies to have a good tree
control in their products, so they have crippled it.

This results in other companies, such as ourselves, needing to create their
own tree controls if more than a certain number of nodes are rquired. The
downside of this, is that reader programs such as JAWS, which expect the
standard windows tree control, are not prepared to read these custom tree
controls.
Perhaps the screen reader JAWS can be configured to read our custom tree
control - you might want to contact them regarding this issue. It is not an
issue of the JAWS reader, nor is it a TreePad issue. But perhaps JAWS can be
configured so that you can utilize our tree control (used in TPBiz as well
as the TPBiz manual).

Dondi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS and a tree view

First I would try the window class reassign, JAWS+F2, then "Window
class reassign" and go from there.

Is the business edition of the same version (1 or 2008 or whatever) as
the lite version? If not I could also see them having moved to less
accessible presentation technology. Unfortunately a great many of the
things MS has been pushing lately suffer greatly as far as
accessibility goes, despite the potential being present to do much
more.

On 12/29/11, Dondi <zidnod63@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone,



I'm looking to figure out if something is a feature of JAWS or a program.
I
have a new program I'm trying out called Treepad business edition which is
a
more advance version then I was using before which is called Treepad lite.
In the lite version I have a tree view of objects just like you would see
in
Windows explorer tree view. I will hear JAWS saying object closed or open
depending on whether I right arrow or left arrow opening or closing the
object just like in explorer and the folder tree view. JAWS will also
announce what level I am on in the tree view. This is the lite version of
Treepad in the business version it doesn't say anything. Does anybody have
any ideas how two programs made by the same company would sound different
when I run them with JAWS 12. By the way I'm running Windows 7 32 bit.



Dondi

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--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com

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Soronel Haetir
 

Well, given that, you may well be out of luck. Still, try the window
class reassign and you may get lucky. Beyond that I suppose you could
potentially do something with scripting, but that would be pretty
painful.

How many nodes are they talking about? I've had tree views with 100k
nodes or more and didn't really notice problems.

On 12/29/11, Dondi <zidnod63@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

Here's what I heard back from the people at the Treepad company right after
I posted my question to the list.

Thank you for contacting TreePad support.

The difference regarding the tree pane between TreePad Lite and TreePad
Business Edition is that TreePad Lite uses the standard Windows tree control
(a dll inside the Windows directory), while TreePad Business Edition uses a
custom tree control (compiled into the program).

The standard windows tree control is a deliberately crippled and slowed down
thing - we cannot use it for more powerful programs such as TreePad Business
Edition and TreePad X Enterprise. It will become very slow when the number
of nodes increases above a certain point. The cause for this problem is that
Microsoft does not want competing software companies to have a good tree
control in their products, so they have crippled it.

This results in other companies, such as ourselves, needing to create their
own tree controls if more than a certain number of nodes are rquired. The
downside of this, is that reader programs such as JAWS, which expect the
standard windows tree control, are not prepared to read these custom tree
controls.
Perhaps the screen reader JAWS can be configured to read our custom tree
control - you might want to contact them regarding this issue. It is not an
issue of the JAWS reader, nor is it a TreePad issue. But perhaps JAWS can be
configured so that you can utilize our tree control (used in TPBiz as well
as the TPBiz manual).

Dondi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS and a tree view

First I would try the window class reassign, JAWS+F2, then "Window
class reassign" and go from there.

Is the business edition of the same version (1 or 2008 or whatever) as
the lite version? If not I could also see them having moved to less
accessible presentation technology. Unfortunately a great many of the
things MS has been pushing lately suffer greatly as far as
accessibility goes, despite the potential being present to do much
more.

On 12/29/11, Dondi <zidnod63@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone,



I'm looking to figure out if something is a feature of JAWS or a program.
I
have a new program I'm trying out called Treepad business edition which is
a
more advance version then I was using before which is called Treepad lite.
In the lite version I have a tree view of objects just like you would see
in
Windows explorer tree view. I will hear JAWS saying object closed or open
depending on whether I right arrow or left arrow opening or closing the
object just like in explorer and the folder tree view. JAWS will also
announce what level I am on in the tree view. This is the lite version of
Treepad in the business version it doesn't say anything. Does anybody have
any ideas how two programs made by the same company would sound different
when I run them with JAWS 12. By the way I'm running Windows 7 32 bit.



Dondi

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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com


Dondi
 

Hi,

Thanks for the help. I talked to Freedom Scientific this morning and we did
the window class reassign and it didn't work. I gave up and went back to the
lite version that worked well with JAWS. Apparently the reason the people
that created Treepad had to go to their own version of a tree control is the
number of folders you can have in the business version. I don't know what
the exact number of folders you can have but the lite version can have 20
thousand folders and the business version can have a lot bore then this.

Dondi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:55 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS and a tree view

Well, given that, you may well be out of luck. Still, try the window class
reassign and you may get lucky. Beyond that I suppose you could potentially
do something with scripting, but that would be pretty painful.

How many nodes are they talking about? I've had tree views with 100k nodes
or more and didn't really notice problems.


On 12/29/11, Dondi <zidnod63@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

Here's what I heard back from the people at the Treepad company right
after I posted my question to the list.

Thank you for contacting TreePad support.

The difference regarding the tree pane between TreePad Lite and
TreePad Business Edition is that TreePad Lite uses the standard
Windows tree control (a dll inside the Windows directory), while
TreePad Business Edition uses a custom tree control (compiled into the
program).

The standard windows tree control is a deliberately crippled and
slowed down thing - we cannot use it for more powerful programs such
as TreePad Business Edition and TreePad X Enterprise. It will become
very slow when the number of nodes increases above a certain point.
The cause for this problem is that Microsoft does not want competing
software companies to have a good tree control in their products, so they
have crippled it.

This results in other companies, such as ourselves, needing to create
their own tree controls if more than a certain number of nodes are
rquired. The downside of this, is that reader programs such as JAWS,
which expect the standard windows tree control, are not prepared to
read these custom tree controls.
Perhaps the screen reader JAWS can be configured to read our custom
tree control - you might want to contact them regarding this issue. It
is not an issue of the JAWS reader, nor is it a TreePad issue. But
perhaps JAWS can be configured so that you can utilize our tree
control (used in TPBiz as well as the TPBiz manual).

Dondi

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS and a tree view

First I would try the window class reassign, JAWS+F2, then "Window
class reassign" and go from there.

Is the business edition of the same version (1 or 2008 or whatever) as
the lite version? If not I could also see them having moved to less
accessible presentation technology. Unfortunately a great many of the
things MS has been pushing lately suffer greatly as far as
accessibility goes, despite the potential being present to do much
more.

On 12/29/11, Dondi <zidnod63@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone,



I'm looking to figure out if something is a feature of JAWS or a
program.
I
have a new program I'm trying out called Treepad business edition
which is
a
more advance version then I was using before which is called Treepad
lite.
In the lite version I have a tree view of objects just like you would
see
in
Windows explorer tree view. I will hear JAWS saying object closed or
open depending on whether I right arrow or left arrow opening or
closing the object just like in explorer and the folder tree view.
JAWS will also announce what level I am on in the tree view. This is
the lite version of Treepad in the business version it doesn't say
anything. Does anybody have any ideas how two programs made by the
same company would sound different when I run them with JAWS 12. By the
way I'm running Windows 7 32 bit.



Dondi

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201112
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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