Topics

JAWS saying the thing that is not


Ann Byrne
 

Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


Dave Mitchell
 

Hi Ann, With the JAWS 13 Beta and XP Home, in Word 7 documents it often reads text on single lines twice with a pattern I have not yet identified.
Additionally, it often jumps to the bottom of messages in Outlook Express when a message is opened.
Lastly, Research It still reports current temperatures in Celsius although I did send in a Bug Report prior to the recent announced repairs.
F S may also be indicated in the rain suspension of the Yankees game last night but I'm reserving judgment on this for the moment. Bumping along with JAWS since 2.0, Mitch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Ann Byrne
 

I think my first JFW was 1.21, after some years with JAWS and DOS. I really do believe, though, that JFW is reading with much less accuracy/clarity than it used to.

At 08:28 AM 10/1/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ann, With the JAWS 13 Beta and XP Home, in Word 7 documents it often reads text on single lines twice with a pattern I have not yet identified.
Additionally, it often jumps to the bottom of messages in Outlook Express when a message is opened.
Lastly, Research It still reports current temperatures in Celsius although I did send in a Bug Report prior to the recent announced repairs.
F S may also be indicated in the rain suspension of the Yankees game last night but I'm reserving judgment on this for the moment. Bumping along with JAWS since 2.0, Mitch
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave...
 

Ann,

Using JAWS 12.0.525 regularly and occasionally testing JAWS 13.0.171. XP Pro
32-bit.

To varying degrees I've also heard the reporting of the wrong line in
documents. I've not noticed the announcement of a previous application when
launching a new one, however.

but I can agree that depending on the context, a number might get the th or
rd added when reading line-by-line or in say all. It tends to happen when
the preceding word is interpreted as a month or its abbreviation. Never
could figure out how to turn that off.

And of course also being a long-time JAWS user I've learned to ignore these
quirks. But I can understand how a new student would be confused is the
speech were not as accurate as it should be.
Good points to bring up to Freedom Scientific.

Dave Carlson
From my Dell Latitude 630.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what
I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is
where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
 

Yes once or twice a rnib volunteer came to visit me, he is now retired and
in spain., he was good on the practical side, he once said to me"i have
been here for 2 hours and Jaws has lied about everything it was true
Dorothy.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: 01 October 2011 14:57
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

I think my first JFW was 1.21, after some years with JAWS and DOS. I
really do believe, though, that JFW is reading with much less
accuracy/clarity than it used to.
At 08:28 AM 10/1/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ann, With the JAWS 13 Beta and XP Home, in Word 7 documents it
often reads text on single lines twice with a pattern I have not yet
identified.
Additionally, it often jumps to the bottom of messages in Outlook
Express when a message is opened.
Lastly, Research It still reports current temperatures in Celsius
although I did send in a Bug Report prior to the recent announced repairs.
F S may also be indicated in the rain suspension of the Yankees game
last night but I'm reserving judgment on this for the
moment. Bumping along with JAWS since 2.0, Mitch
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after
the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to
know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which
is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these
kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dave Scrimenti <dscrimenti@...>
 

Using XP and JFW 11, I find that Jaws sometimes reads from a different app than the one I'm on, or reports blank when there's actually something there. This mostly happens when I go to the Jaws cursor, and only on my laptop. Shutting down and restarting Jaws fixes the problem, but it happens frequently.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 8:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Tony
 

Just another in a long list of things that get worse with each new
release of Jaws. I've had this problem for several versions and it is worse
with some programs than others. It is much worse in version 12, don't know
about 13.

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dorothy
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:40 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Yes once or twice a rnib volunteer came to visit me, he is now retired and
in spain., he was good on the practical side, he once said to me"i have
been here for 2 hours and Jaws has lied about everything it was true
Dorothy.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: 01 October 2011 14:57
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

I think my first JFW was 1.21, after some years with JAWS and DOS. I really
do believe, though, that JFW is reading with much less accuracy/clarity than
it used to.
At 08:28 AM 10/1/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ann, With the JAWS 13 Beta and XP Home, in Word 7 documents it
often reads text on single lines twice with a pattern I have not yet
identified.
Additionally, it often jumps to the bottom of messages in Outlook
Express when a message is opened.
Lastly, Research It still reports current temperatures in Celsius
although I did send in a Bug Report prior to the recent announced repairs.
F S may also be indicated in the rain suspension of the Yankees game
last night but I'm reserving judgment on this for the moment. Bumping
along with JAWS since 2.0, Mitch
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the
previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby,
this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what
I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new
line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is
where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dale Heltzer
 

Your first point, JFW reading some part of a previous screen, I've thought
of as the "flush" problem - it's very annoying. I've noticed it only
sometime in the last few versions.
It seems there's a buffer that isn't being reset as JFW switches between
environments.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:32 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself
saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the
previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby,
this
is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date,
even
though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not
what
JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new
line
with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite
outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the
cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of
issues???

thanks.

Ann



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Cy Selfridge
 

Hi,
I am using JAWS 11, latest version on both my W7 laptop and my Dell XP
machine.
I have noticed that, when going through my email, JAWS will occasionally not
read the one I have just opened but rather the last one I read. I have found
that one must be *extremely* careful as what JAWS is reading may *NOT* be a
duplicate. (LOLLLOLLOL)
This combined with Yahoogroups habit of sending duplicates causes some
confusion. (LOLLLOLLOL)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dale Heltzer
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:43 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Your first point, JFW reading some part of a previous screen, I've thought
of as the "flush" problem - it's very annoying. I've noticed it only
sometime in the last few versions.
It seems there's a buffer that isn't being reset as JFW switches between
environments.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:32 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself
saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the
previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby,
this
is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date,
even
though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not
what
JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new
line
with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite
outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the
cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of
issues???

thanks.

Ann



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
 

Yes if they listen of course, a teacher should not have to point out to her
students that the product tends to lie! regards dorothy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: 01 October 2011 16:11
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Ann,

Using JAWS 12.0.525 regularly and occasionally testing JAWS 13.0.171. XP Pro

32-bit.

To varying degrees I've also heard the reporting of the wrong line in
documents. I've not noticed the announcement of a previous application when
launching a new one, however.

but I can agree that depending on the context, a number might get the th or
rd added when reading line-by-line or in say all. It tends to happen when
the preceding word is interpreted as a month or its abbreviation. Never
could figure out how to turn that off.

And of course also being a long-time JAWS user I've learned to ignore these
quirks. But I can understand how a new student would be confused is the
speech were not as accurate as it should be.
Good points to bring up to Freedom Scientific.

Dave Carlson
From my Dell Latitude 630.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what
I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is
where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Adrian Spratt
 

Cy, what interests me here is that you're having this problem with the last
release of JAWS 11. I did experience it with earlier releases of that
version, but hardly ever, if at all, with this one. Hence my frustration
when I find it all over again in JAWS 12, last release, when I finally, um,
upgraded.

Once JAWS gets it into its head that it's supposed to repeat a message, it
keeps doing so even when I open other messages. Sometimes switching to
another folder and then back into my inbox unsticks it. Sometimes I have to
unload JAWS and bring it up again. Time-consuming and distracting. So I keep
going back to that release of JAWS 11 after starting with 12. I'm sorry it
hasn't had the same salutary effect for you.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 1:08 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Hi,
I am using JAWS 11, latest version on both my W7 laptop and my Dell XP
machine.
I have noticed that, when going through my email, JAWS will occasionally not
read the one I have just opened but rather the last one I read. I have found
that one must be *extremely* careful as what JAWS is reading may *NOT* be a
duplicate. (LOLLLOLLOL) This combined with Yahoogroups habit of sending
duplicates causes some confusion. (LOLLLOLLOL) Cy


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dale Heltzer
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:43 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Your first point, JFW reading some part of a previous screen, I've thought
of as the "flush" problem - it's very annoying. I've noticed it only
sometime in the last few versions.
It seems there's a buffer that isn't being reset as JFW switches between
environments.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:32 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the
previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby,
this
is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date,
even
though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote,
not
what
JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new
line
with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite
outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the
cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Adrian Spratt
 

Dave and Ann,

Responding to the education angle, I imagine that compounding the problem
is that JAWS's quirks vary from machine to machine. I am not a teacher by
profession, but I have taught a few people how to use JAWS. Fortunately, one
has none of the problems with her machine mentioned in this thread, while
another's has problems I don't. So you have to be aware that the student may
not be making a mistake and that, instead, JAWS is making it for him/her. Or
else you second-guess yourself and figure maybe JAWS is making the mistake
when, in fact, it's the student.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Ann,

Using JAWS 12.0.525 regularly and occasionally testing JAWS 13.0.171. XP Pro
32-bit.

To varying degrees I've also heard the reporting of the wrong line in
documents. I've not noticed the announcement of a previous application when
launching a new one, however.

but I can agree that depending on the context, a number might get the th or
rd added when reading line-by-line or in say all. It tends to happen when
the preceding word is interpreted as a month or its abbreviation. Never
could figure out how to turn that off.

And of course also being a long-time JAWS user I've learned to ignore these
quirks. But I can understand how a new student would be confused is the
speech were not as accurate as it should be.
Good points to bring up to Freedom Scientific.

Dave Carlson
From my Dell Latitude 630.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what
I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is
where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann



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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Charles Coe
 

I do not think a software program can lie only that it's programmer made an
error. Only human lie.

It looks as if this might be a focus problem with JAWS. The only thing I
have experienced is that JAWS will read the title of a email message even
after I had deleted it. Secondly JAWS will inform me that there is an
update but when I go to look for what that update is, it isn't there!

charles

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dorothy
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:58 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Yes if they listen of course, a teacher should not have to point out to her
students that the product tends to lie! regards dorothy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: 01 October 2011 16:11
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Ann,

Using JAWS 12.0.525 regularly and occasionally testing JAWS 13.0.171. XP Pro

32-bit.

To varying degrees I've also heard the reporting of the wrong line in
documents. I've not noticed the announcement of a previous application when
launching a new one, however.

but I can agree that depending on the context, a number might get the th or
rd added when reading line-by-line or in say all. It tends to happen when
the preceding word is interpreted as a month or its abbreviation. Never
could figure out how to turn that off.

And of course also being a long-time JAWS user I've learned to ignore these
quirks. But I can understand how a new student would be confused is the
speech were not as accurate as it should be.
Good points to bring up to Freedom Scientific.

Dave Carlson
From my Dell Latitude 630.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what
I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is
where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann



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Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
 

Yes of course you are right it was a turn of phrase. In my case a good
while ago, I had to get to the bottom of the problem, It was actually
diagnosed by a young man doing research name was Will pearson, I do not
know where will is now. But it was confirmed only when unable to bear any
more I recorded everything and as I have said before I sent it all to Dr Lee
Hamilton at st Petersberg., why dr Hamilton? I was sent an email by a
sighted friend saying"bigwigs at Fs and I read their cv and he seemed
clever. I rang in advance and spoke to his Pa,her name was Grace, she told
me how to address the package and she personally would see dr Hamilton got
it. Well after a while I had a phone call from Bryan carver director of
technical support. He told me "you are right we ran tests and replicated all
the problems you had. I asked when will you fix it please? He said I fear
we cannot,reason it could not be fixed by a script, if that were possible
the script writer at the vendors office in uk could have done it. Then
another friend thought of another product that would run with jaws and not
upset it,that was Lunar not an fs product.. He was right Magic? No magic
made it worse. However I was by that time determined if they would not could
not fix it to get a work a round myself a Local engineer just a mainstream
engineer said,he had once worked for a firm of electronics, the company had
shut down,he said I will make you a box to invert the screen, it would not
interfere with jaws and have a switch that switch couldbe just pushed up and
the screen be inverted,so I would have black screen and white font. We
called it a "switching box", trouble is time went buy and I could not get to
see a prototype, he said he was having problems with three of the colours
and couldnot eliminate a large amount of white around the screen He
mentioned 3 colours I think he said Hexadecimals. In the end I realised he
was not able to admit defeat and got the dolphin Lunar. No I am not mad I
just was cross at the time since getting the problem aired was too hard if
the problem had been admitted by vendor,and I not blamed I would have just
acceptedit.. dorothy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Charles Coe
Sent: 01 October 2011 19:58
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not


I do not think a software program can lie only that it's programmer made an
error. Only human lie.

It looks as if this might be a focus problem with JAWS. The only thing I
have experienced is that JAWS will read the title of a email message even
after I had deleted it. Secondly JAWS will inform me that there is an
update but when I go to look for what that update is, it isn't there!

charles

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dorothy
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:58 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Yes if they listen of course, a teacher should not have to point out to her
students that the product tends to lie! regards dorothy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: 01 October 2011 16:11
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Ann,

Using JAWS 12.0.525 regularly and occasionally testing JAWS 13.0.171. XP Pro

32-bit.

To varying degrees I've also heard the reporting of the wrong line in
documents. I've not noticed the announcement of a previous application when
launching a new one, however.

but I can agree that depending on the context, a number might get the th or
rd added when reading line-by-line or in say all. It tends to happen when
the preceding word is interpreted as a month or its abbreviation. Never
could figure out how to turn that off.

And of course also being a long-time JAWS user I've learned to ignore these
quirks. But I can understand how a new student would be confused is the
speech were not as accurate as it should be.
Good points to bring up to Freedom Scientific.

Dave Carlson
From my Dell Latitude 630.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:31
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the
date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what
I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is
where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds
of issues???

thanks.

Ann



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
 

Hello I wonder if you can describe the role of the buffer pleas I once
tried some good clear English speaking voices on my ocr,they actually came
with a version of jaws but we could use them with our ocr., I would use one
called Daniel it said 22 hertz after it, anyway Daniel, not to be confused
with jaws British English This Daniel was a real belter,and would not be
paused once he got going. A friend said most likely the buffer is not
emptying, he said the buffer was like afunnel so example you are pouring
water into the top of the funnel before it has time to run out at the end
The person who toldme that was totally blind and is the man who made all his
own computers by the way Is that a fair explanation? dorothy-----Original
Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dale Heltzer
Sent: 01 October 2011 17:43
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Your first point, JFW reading some part of a previous screen, I've thought
of as the "flush" problem - it's very annoying. I've noticed it only
sometime in the last few versions.
It seems there's a buffer that isn't being reset as JFW switches between
environments.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:32 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself
saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the
previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby,
this
is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date,
even
though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not
what
JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new
line
with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite
outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the
cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of
issues???

thanks.

Ann



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Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Robert Logue <bobcat11@...>
 

Hi Ann. I agree with your first point. I also find this very frustrating and annoying. I really do wish jaws wouldn't read the screen or part of the screen that was just left. It is confusing. And yes I think jaws is lying too.

I just installed jaws 13. Hope it isn't lying too.

I have not found any control in jaws that has an effect on the behavior. In older screen readers. For instance, ASAP, you could adjust the text out delay. I thought that would work in jaws but it doesn't seem to help.

Your second point about dates, I've seen that happen to but I'm not sure which formats cause that to happen. Could you give some examples. Please?

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Ann Byrne
 

My student tracks the dates he attended class so he can be reimbursed for transportation. He attended on September twelfth. JAWS called it "September first-something (I don't remember the second number).
Also, September two zero, 2011, is spoken "September 20th", despite there being no 'th'. And when I wrote two zero in numbers with a space between to illustrate this point, JAWS spoke it as 'second zero'. that's why I spelled the numbers out.

."

At 11:01 PM 10/2/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ann. I agree with your first point. I also find this very frustrating and annoying. I really do wish jaws wouldn't read the screen or part of the screen that was just left. It is confusing. And yes I think jaws is lying too.

I just installed jaws 13. Hope it isn't lying too.

I have not found any control in jaws that has an effect on the behavior. In older screen readers. For instance, ASAP, you could adjust the text out delay. I thought that would work in jaws but it doesn't seem to help.

Your second point about dates, I've seen that happen to but I'm not sure which formats cause that to happen. Could you give some examples. Please?

Bob


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
 

98 to demonstrate equipment, even if he was selling XP, he said"it was
easier to colour thepallets.. Yes but although it may sound funny, only
imagine people getting invisible emails, and it is a sighted world out
there, my emails white print on black screen would arrive appearing
invisible. Those who knew me would highlight them, even a computer engineer
rang me to say "I cannot see it. The only people who did not get in black on
black,were those who used webmail. I asked the man who demonstrated the
equipment to me in my home why it worked when he set it up ,it had no
internet connection it was my first ever computer remember. He said later he
always used windows98 to demonstrate it was easier to colour the Pallets.
anyway the rnib volunteer did say"!I have been here 2 hours and the darned
thing has lied about everything, However the hard part was diagnosing the
problem and finding a fix Dorothy..

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Logue
Sent: 03 October 2011 05:01
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

Hi Ann. I agree with your first point. I also find this very frustrating
and annoying. I really do wish jaws wouldn't read the screen or part of the

screen that was just left. It is confusing. And yes I think jaws is lying
too.

I just installed jaws 13. Hope it isn't lying too.

I have not found any control in jaws that has an effect on the behavior. In

older screen readers. For instance, ASAP, you could adjust the text out
delay. I thought that would work in jaws but it doesn't seem to help.

Your second point about dates, I've seen that happen to but I'm not sure
which formats cause that to happen. Could you give some examples. Please?

Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne
" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself
saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the
previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby,
this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date,
even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote,
not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new
line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite
outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the
cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of
issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Swati Sinha
 

This bug is from JAWS 11.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not


My student tracks the dates he attended class so he can be reimbursed for transportation. He attended on September twelfth. JAWS called it "September first-something (I don't remember the second number).
Also, September two zero, 2011, is spoken "September 20th", despite there being no 'th'. And when I wrote two zero in numbers with a space between to illustrate this point, JAWS spoke it as 'second zero'. that's why I spelled the numbers out.

."


At 11:01 PM 10/2/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ann. I agree with your first point. I also find this very frustrating and annoying. I really do wish jaws wouldn't read the screen or part of the screen that was just left. It is confusing. And yes I think jaws is lying too.

I just installed jaws 13. Hope it isn't lying too.

I have not found any control in jaws that has an effect on the behavior. In older screen readers. For instance, ASAP, you could adjust the text out delay. I thought that would work in jaws but it doesn't seem to help.

Your second point about dates, I've seen that happen to but I'm not sure which formats cause that to happen. Could you give some examples. Please?

Bob


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4628 (20091122) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4628 (20091122) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

That is what date processing is suppose to do, but you have the option
to turn it off.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann byrne
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:35 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: JAWS saying the thing that is not

My student tracks the dates he attended class so he can be reimbursed
for transportation. He attended on September twelfth. JAWS called
it "September first-something (I don't remember the second number).
Also, September two zero, 2011, is spoken "September 20th", despite
there being no 'th'. And when I wrote two zero in numbers with a
space between to illustrate this point, JAWS spoke it as 'second
zero'. that's why I spelled the numbers out.

."


At 11:01 PM 10/2/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ann. I agree with your first point. I also find this very
frustrating and annoying. I really do wish jaws wouldn't read the
screen or part of the screen that was just left. It is
confusing. And yes I think jaws is lying too.

I just installed jaws 13. Hope it isn't lying too.

I have not found any control in jaws that has an effect on the
behavior. In older screen readers. For instance, ASAP, you could
adjust the text out delay. I thought that would work in jaws but it
doesn't seem to help.

Your second point about dates, I've seen that happen to but I'm not
sure which formats cause that to happen. Could you give some
examples. Please?

Bob


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:31 AM
Subject: JAWS saying the thing that is not


Maybe I'm just getting cranky---a definite possibility--but I find
myself saying more and more often to my students, "JAWS is lying to
you."

1. When opening a new document or application, JAWS often rereads
the previous screen before reading the screen it just opened. To a
newby, this is way confusing.

2. When reading dates, JAWS speaks a 'th' or 'st' or 'rd' after
the date, even though it isn't there. It is important to me to
know what I wrote, not what JAWS thinks I want to hear.

3. When working with an outline in Word 2010, JAWS often but not
consistently reports the line I just pressed enter on, and not the
new line with the outline number. So when I'm planning a party--my
favorite outline--it says "2. send invitations' and not '3', which
is where the cursor is.

I don't think I'm imagining this. Is anyone else having these
kinds of issues???

thanks.

Ann


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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