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jaws any version
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Dorothy <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
adrian you are right and last night I recalled that in my case I did use
the sga act, dated 1979. in later years it has been updated to cover distance selling. However it is a good act Jaws is sold under licence of course. However imagine this, you are buying your first ever computer,you have been assessed by a salesman who made a home visit,and been to another company also needs are a computer a scanner a monitor a printer and an OCR, in all I got 3 quotes amount was £3,500 One a bit less due to a cheaper OCR.you are able to see some things still likewhite print on a black background,and are told "that is no problem jaws is best for you the equipment arrives ready set to the setting you need all is tested ready to plug in and go. I did not have internet connection,but that was for me to choose in due course In no case did I get told of any problems However tutors I paid to give me some tuition found jaws played up ,they did not know why one was from dorton college he knew jaws,another was a lady again she was baffled. Had I known supernova for instance could do easily what I needed fine I would have boughtit. I went to the fs help site once on line it was in germany and the fs technical support got on to sole vendor,now they came back and forth put magic on,magic made it worse I did not need magnification so that was a few hundred pounds down the drain.,. I will not drag out this agony much longer but I did refer to the sga act firmly. In the end I had no option,I was not the problemI knew that and so did the tutors I was paying. eric damery made suggestions they did not work,a bright young man doing research did pin down the problem. eventually I put all details and recordings in a packet sent to fs in stPetersburg to a doctor Lee hamilton. why dr hamilton? I read his cv and thought he seems ok in advance I contacted his pa,she promised to see he got it personally.well later I had a telephone call from Bryan carver director of tecnical support.He said we have run tests and yes you are right we had the same issues and magic was no good either in factmade it d worse. iwas told a script wouldn't fix it only a revamp of the software and Fs did not intend doing thatI got an apology.I should not have had to endure such an ordeal of course,but I had to fight or go under I was so angry I could never go through that again however. Dorothy.. I----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 11:36 PM Subject: RE: jaws any version There have been several muddying messages on this subject on this list.
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inthane <inthaneelf@...>
arg,
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what she is talking about is a law in several countries that allows folks to take legal action if a company clamed something is for the use of and/or good for doing, and then the software falls flat on the job. under such laws a company like FS could be held responsible for replacing or otherwise making good for the rather bad performance and usability of jaws 12, a law that I intend to check into to promote here at home! inthane . Moderator, Blind Access Help. . Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises "own the might and majesty of an alacorn" www.alacorncomputer.com . proprietor: Inthane's Grab Bag for blind computer users and Programmers! http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
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From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:37 AM Subject: Re: jaws any version Yes, I'm not sure what you're on about Dorothy.
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inthane <inthaneelf@...>
ah no, in fact most try to deny the very concept of this law, go read the ula of any american sold software,
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"not guaranteed for a particular use" and such it sounds like something we need to look into and perhaps push for here! inthane . Moderator, Blind Access Help. . Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises "own the might and majesty of an alacorn" www.alacorncomputer.com . proprietor: Inthane's Grab Bag for blind computer users and Programmers! http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
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From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 7:08 AM Subject: Re: jaws any version dorthy, if we purchase from freedom scientific they would take care of this. this is not our problem. karen
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Adrian Spratt
There have been several muddying messages on this subject on this list.
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First, FS's license by itself doesn't determine what rights users have. In the U.S., state law typically recognizes implied warranty protections that are additional to the express warranties written into a license agreement. I believe this dual protection is followed in countries that have an English common law heritage. There is no need to get into the distinctions among copyright, patents, trademarks and other intellectual property rights. The concept of a product's fitness to serve the purpose for which it is intended is a consumer protection. Most countries run consumer protection offices. In the U.S., the best place to go for this kind of assistance is the Attorney General's office of the state where you live, although some of those offices will refer complaints to the A.G. for the state where the company has its home office. One or two complaints are unlikely to generate a serious response, but complaints from a sizable number of consumers could trigger enforcement action. I am not advocating a complaint-filing campaign. Many subscribers to this list are content with JAWS, a factor that would go into any enforcement officer's decision-making process. I'm just trying to clear up the misunderstandings in this thread.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of d.durber@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:01 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: jaws any version Dorothy: Soft products, such as books and computer software are covered by each respective countries Copyright laws, and not laws which pertain to other types of products, such as computer hardeware, clothing, household goods, etc. Your friend should not get confused, between the different laws covering various types of products, as each country determines the standards and conditions under which different types of products are sold and warrantees for each type of product, are covered by the particular laws for the particular country concerned. Your friend should read the license for each product to determine any conditions and rights, in this case the Freedom Scientific JAWS License Agreement, which can be found in the JAWS Help system. If your friend needs any further clarrification as to the terms and conditions of the JAWS License Agreement, they should either contact the Freedom Scientific dealer in the country in which they live or, they should contact Freedom Scientific directly, either by email , by phone or by snail mail. HTH Sincerely: Dave Durber ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@zen.co.uk> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: Re: jaws any version take care of what exactly? surely if the sale of goods act does not apply, then do we rely on fs to meet the standards we expect? if so many of the problems I see on this list and it is a busy list will only be solved by the client either putting pressure on fs with their wallet or living in hopes the next version will solve all our problems wellunless you can say differently I assume the laws relating to software is much the same worldwide,although prices will differ I think from country to country as I have read on this list. However I am sure you meant well kind regards dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: Re: jaws any version dorthy, if we purchase from freedom scientific they would take care of this. this is not our problem. karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy" <dorothy.ingram-gorban@zen.co.uk> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: jaws any version Dear list I just want to be sure that Jaws and in fact all screen readers are sold under licence I ask since an interesting topic arose on a list I am not a member of,a friend just selects any item he thinks is interesting It was pertaining to jaws however. One of the posts said he was not sure about USA, and mentioned the SGA act,that in Uk means the sale of goods act of 1979, It states an item sold must be "fit for purpose" in English law it is 6 years in Scotland it is 5, the listersaid "i do not know about USA. Well that act is of course very important but although many Posts were posted, no one mentioned that software is in fact sold underLicence I expect the Usa law is much the same but of courseI maybe wrong I know computers i.e.hardware is but since Jaws was the subject can you confirm what I imagine is the case regards dorothy _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
Many thanks dave, I was sent the posts by friends on the jaws list in uk,I
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am sure they all knew about fs licence conditions,but one man mentioned the sga act which means an item mustbe fit for purpose now that act is a Uk act of course.the battle really got heated up as they list members got angry atbeing told if they are unhappy move to another screen reader, some couldnot do that,and explained why. But shouldnot have to .In us laws differ from state to state but I think jaws is sold under licence in most states of course they can go to fs directly I once had to do that myself I am not saying it was easy,but it was necessary regards dorothy
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of d.durber@gmail.com Sent: 08 October 2011 22:01 To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: jaws any version Dorothy: Soft products, such as books and computer software are covered by each respective countries Copyright laws, and not laws which pertain to other types of products, such as computer hardeware, clothing, household goods, etc. Your friend should not get confused, between the different laws covering various types of products, as each country determines the standards and conditions under which different types of products are sold and warrantees for each type of product, are covered by the particular laws for the particular country concerned. Your friend should read the license for each product to determine any conditions and rights, in this case the Freedom Scientific JAWS License Agreement, which can be found in the JAWS Help system. If your friend needs any further clarrification as to the terms and conditions of the JAWS License Agreement, they should either contact the Freedom Scientific dealer in the country in which they live or, they should contact Freedom Scientific directly, either by email , by phone or by snail mail. HTH Sincerely: Dave Durber ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@zen.co.uk> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: Re: jaws any version take care of what exactly? surely if the sale of goods act does not apply, _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave Durber
Dorothy:
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Soft products, such as books and computer software are covered by each respective countries Copyright laws, and not laws which pertain to other types of products, such as computer hardeware, clothing, household goods, etc. Your friend should not get confused, between the different laws covering various types of products, as each country determines the standards and conditions under which different types of products are sold and warrantees for each type of product, are covered by the particular laws for the particular country concerned. Your friend should read the license for each product to determine any conditions and rights, in this case the Freedom Scientific JAWS License Agreement, which can be found in the JAWS Help system. If your friend needs any further clarrification as to the terms and conditions of the JAWS License Agreement, they should either contact the Freedom Scientific dealer in the country in which they live or, they should contact Freedom Scientific directly, either by email , by phone or by snail mail. HTH Sincerely: Dave Durber
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dorothy" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@zen.co.uk> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: Re: jaws any version take care of what exactly? surely if the sale of goods act does not apply,
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Dorothy <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
thank you tom exactly right, I know Fs make the product of course, it so happened a topic just raged for 2 days and a night on a jaws only list this international list is but one. they were upset of course that they may have to buy jaws 13 to get problems in jaws 12 right but even more so that they had so little clout,many are getting it paid for under what is called access to work,does that make them happier? well it would seem not some and I am one are using our savings to buy jaws, the fact that in the UK there is a sole vendor should help,this means if you buy jaws or an fs product from for example rnib or one of the other outlets,they still have to buy it from the sole vendor in UK sightand sound technology, One of those posting this topic mentioned the sga act,that says any item bought must be "fit for purpose and I have explained that act. but in all the flurry no one seemed to remember that jaws is not covered,since it is sold under license. I expect ms is also to some extent ? many thanks Dorothy.
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From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@bmo.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:56 PM Subject: RE: jaws any version I think Dorothy is saying that according to several acts concerning the selling of goods and services the vendors products have to live up to the standard advertised and that jaws bug ridden product may be in violation.
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Bissett, Tom <tom.bissett@...>
I think Dorothy is saying that according to several acts concerning the selling of goods and services the vendors products have to live up to the standard advertised and that jaws bug ridden product may be in violation.
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Regards Tom Bisset
----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Chris Smart Sent: September 8, 2011 10:38 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: jaws any version Yes, I'm not sure what you're on about Dorothy. At 10:08 AM 9/8/2011, you wrote: dorthy, if we purchase from freedom scientific they would take _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
Yes, I'm not sure what you're on about Dorothy.
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At 10:08 AM 9/8/2011, you wrote:
dorthy, if we purchase from freedom scientific they would take care of this. this is not our problem. karen
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Dorothy <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
take care of what exactly? surely if the sale of goods act does not apply,
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then do we rely on fs to meet the standards we expect? if so many of the problems I see on this list and it is a busy list will only be solved by the client either putting pressure on fs with their wallet or living in hopes the next version will solve all our problems wellunless you can say differently I assume the laws relating to software is much the same worldwide,although prices will differ I think from country to country as I have read on this list. However I am sure you meant well kind regards dorothy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: Re: jaws any version dorthy, if we purchase from freedom scientific they would take care of
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Karen Hughes <khughes8@...>
dorthy, if we purchase from freedom scientific they would take care of this. this is not our problem. karen
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dorothy" <dorothy.ingram-gorban@zen.co.uk> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: jaws any version Dear list I just want to be sure that Jaws and in fact all screen readers
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Dorothy <dorothy.ingram-gorban@...>
Dear list I just want to be sure that Jaws and in fact all screen readers
are sold under licence I ask since an interesting topic arose on a list I am not a member of,a friend just selects any item he thinks is interesting It was pertaining to jaws however. One of the posts said he was not sure about USA, and mentioned the SGA act,that in Uk means the sale of goods act of 1979, It states an item sold must be "fit for purpose" in English law it is 6 years in Scotland it is 5, the listersaid "i do not know about USA. Well that act is of course very important but although many Posts were posted, no one mentioned that software is in fact sold underLicence I expect the Usa law is much the same but of courseI maybe wrong I know computers i.e.hardware is but since Jaws was the subject can you confirm what I imagine is the case regards dorothy
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