Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

I haven't said much as the topics of JAWS alternatives have come up. Several have voiced some admiration for Apple and its built-in screen reader VoiceOver. I don't have a Mac, but I do have an iPhone. So, I know a little about VoiceOver, and I've been on the Mac lists. So, I know more than a little about it.
Periodically, someone will mention NVDA, an open source free screen reader. I've used it, and the experience was far from satisfying. Now, we hear at least a rumor that Narrator will become a full-blown screen reader, however one defines "full blown."
What troubles me is that as more and more people are satisfied with "good enough" because, after all, it is free, the number of those willing to fork over cash for the powerful screen readers like Window-Eyes and JAWS will drop. As that happens, the price will doubtless go up.
Speaking from a purely personal perspective, I would hate to see that happen. I need things like track changes, support for styles, and other powerful features that go along with using Word to its fullest.
NVDA, VoiceOver, and even System Access cannot compete at that level, having no functionality to touch either JAWS or Window-Eyes.
Philosophically, I suppose I should shut up and take my medicine. One could argue that JAWS is artificially high-priced, forcing, or seeming to force, ordinary users to pay for features they don't want or need.
Perhaps if I want the features, I should be willing to pay extra for them.
I know JAWS now has two price levels, with a somewhat higher price for what I use -- Professional Version.
Perhaps, in the future, what we will see is a JAWS light for $100 or so and a JAWS heavy duty for $5,000 or more. Ouch!
Still, one has to consider the features one needs. I may not need all the cell reading functions in Excel, but I'm willing to pay for them to get the professional features I need in Word. I just think we should step back a little before we cavalierly express a willingness for "good enough." My guess is that "good enough" won't in fact be "good enough" just when it is needed most.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:12 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8

I know that they are making Narrator in to a full blown screen reader and is
expected to be competition to JAWS. That said I think it's functionality
still won't come close but then how much of the jaws features do we all use
on the day to day basis at least for home use. Hopefully they will release a
public beta like they did with Windows 7 as it was very successful.

Peter





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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:09 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Windows 8

Hi all I was just wondering if any of you seen anything about windows
8 and if jaws 12 will work with it. Thing is from what I've heard the
windows 8 interface is going to be dramatically redesigned to give it
a fresh look, it is a atemt by microsoft to stay in the game along
side apple.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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#############################################################################################################
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RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
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dennis <dennis.cornelison@...>
 

very well put. i agree.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


I haven't said much as the topics of JAWS alternatives have come up. Several have voiced some admiration for Apple and its built-in screen reader VoiceOver. I don't have a Mac, but I do have an iPhone. So, I know a little about VoiceOver, and I've been on the Mac lists. So, I know more than a little about it.
Periodically, someone will mention NVDA, an open source free screen reader. I've used it, and the experience was far from satisfying. Now, we hear at least a rumor that Narrator will become a full-blown screen reader, however one defines "full blown."
What troubles me is that as more and more people are satisfied with "good enough" because, after all, it is free, the number of those willing to fork over cash for the powerful screen readers like Window-Eyes and JAWS will drop. As that happens, the price will doubtless go up.
Speaking from a purely personal perspective, I would hate to see that happen. I need things like track changes, support for styles, and other powerful features that go along with using Word to its fullest.
NVDA, VoiceOver, and even System Access cannot compete at that level, having no functionality to touch either JAWS or Window-Eyes.
Philosophically, I suppose I should shut up and take my medicine. One could argue that JAWS is artificially high-priced, forcing, or seeming to force, ordinary users to pay for features they don't want or need.
Perhaps if I want the features, I should be willing to pay extra for them.
I know JAWS now has two price levels, with a somewhat higher price for what I use -- Professional Version.
Perhaps, in the future, what we will see is a JAWS light for $100 or so and a JAWS heavy duty for $5,000 or more. Ouch!
Still, one has to consider the features one needs. I may not need all the cell reading functions in Excel, but I'm willing to pay for them to get the professional features I need in Word. I just think we should step back a little before we cavalierly express a willingness for "good enough." My guess is that "good enough" won't in fact be "good enough" just when it is needed most.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:12 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8

I know that they are making Narrator in to a full blown screen reader and is
expected to be competition to JAWS. That said I think it's functionality
still won't come close but then how much of the jaws features do we all use
on the day to day basis at least for home use. Hopefully they will release a
public beta like they did with Windows 7 as it was very successful.

Peter





1. <a href= 'http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Holdstock'
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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:09 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Windows 8

Hi all I was just wondering if any of you seen anything about windows
8 and if jaws 12 will work with it. Thing is from what I've heard the
windows 8 interface is going to be dramatically redesigned to give it
a fresh look, it is a atemt by microsoft to stay in the game along
side apple.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator, even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


Alan Dicey <adicey@...>
 

Hello Ed and Friends,
I must disagree with you on your thoughts about "Free" screen reading programs coming out and causing the cost of traditional text to speech programs to go up.
I should think the price of JAWS and Window-Eyes would drop considerably, the "Law of Supply and Demand" you understand.

Just my thoughts, and of course you are entitled to your opinion.

If nothing else, I would expect the manufacturers of the JAWS and Window-Eyes programs to strive for more "Excellence" in their product, if there is some competition out there.

With Best Regards,
Alan
Miami, Florida
Alan Dicey, President
United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
"Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
United States Braille Chess Association Home Page: http://AmericanBlindChess.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


I haven't said much as the topics of JAWS alternatives have come up. Several have voiced some admiration for Apple and its built-in screen reader VoiceOver. I don't have a Mac, but I do have an iPhone. So, I know a little about VoiceOver, and I've been on the Mac lists. So, I know more than a little about it.
Periodically, someone will mention NVDA, an open source free screen reader. I've used it, and the experience was far from satisfying. Now, we hear at least a rumor that Narrator will become a full-blown screen reader, however one defines "full blown."
What troubles me is that as more and more people are satisfied with "good enough" because, after all, it is free, the number of those willing to fork over cash for the powerful screen readers like Window-Eyes and JAWS will drop. As that happens, the price will doubtless go up.
Speaking from a purely personal perspective, I would hate to see that happen. I need things like track changes, support for styles, and other powerful features that go along with using Word to its fullest.
NVDA, VoiceOver, and even System Access cannot compete at that level, having no functionality to touch either JAWS or Window-Eyes.
Philosophically, I suppose I should shut up and take my medicine. One could argue that JAWS is artificially high-priced, forcing, or seeming to force, ordinary users to pay for features they don't want or need.
Perhaps if I want the features, I should be willing to pay extra for them.
I know JAWS now has two price levels, with a somewhat higher price for what I use -- Professional Version.
Perhaps, in the future, what we will see is a JAWS light for $100 or so and a JAWS heavy duty for $5,000 or more. Ouch!
Still, one has to consider the features one needs. I may not need all the cell reading functions in Excel, but I'm willing to pay for them to get the professional features I need in Word. I just think we should step back a little before we cavalierly express a willingness for "good enough." My guess is that "good enough" won't in fact be "good enough" just when it is needed most.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:12 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8

I know that they are making Narrator in to a full blown screen reader and is
expected to be competition to JAWS. That said I think it's functionality
still won't come close but then how much of the jaws features do we all use
on the day to day basis at least for home use. Hopefully they will release a
public beta like they did with Windows 7 as it was very successful.

Peter





1. <a href= 'http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Holdstock'
alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge10.gif'
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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:09 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Windows 8

Hi all I was just wondering if any of you seen anything about windows
8 and if jaws 12 will work with it. Thing is from what I've heard the
windows 8 interface is going to be dramatically redesigned to give it
a fresh look, it is a atemt by microsoft to stay in the game along
side apple.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@...>
 

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@...>
 

Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple products with accessibility.

Peter





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Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@...>
 

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more expensive
but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility. If windows
wanted to, they could have made narator in to what voiceover is today
by just putting some efort in to it and interacting more with their
users. My view of apples expensive hardware is that it's more
expensive for a reason, you get what you pay for, e.g. a apple
computer would last you a lot longer than a pc plus the hardware and
software are designed for each other where with pc drivers must be
written for every piece of the pc just to talk to the other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place concerning
accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps
subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple
products with accessibility.

Peter





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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

good point Peter, about 30% more!

At 01:11 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple products with accessibility.

Peter





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Peter


-----Original Message----- From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@...>
 

Where does the money come from then to fund the accessibility side of Apple products if it's not from sales of product? Also, you mention about the apple hardware all working together. It could be argued that to develop products for a system which isn't so closed shop as Apples products is harder and more expensive because the drivers aren't all generic. As for product quality, I know several people who have had Macs and PCs fail, and likewise I know people who have had both PCs and Macs go on for a long time. But as you say we don't want to go off topic.

Peter


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Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:14 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more expensive
but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility. If windows
wanted to, they could have made narator in to what voiceover is today
by just putting some efort in to it and interacting more with their
users. My view of apples expensive hardware is that it's more
expensive for a reason, you get what you pay for, e.g. a apple
computer would last you a lot longer than a pc plus the hardware and
software are designed for each other where with pc drivers must be
written for every piece of the pc just to talk to the other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place concerning
accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps
subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple
products with accessibility.

Peter





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Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Howard <hwolcott@...>
 

hi :
right on, peter.


howard wolcott

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 1:11 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple products with accessibility.

Peter





1. <a href= 'http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Holdstock' alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge10.gif' width='270' height='50'></a>

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Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Howard <hwolcott@...>
 

hi:
I notice you are still on this jaws list so you must still be using jaws so I guess voice over on the mac is not the best.
if you have a mac then you don't need jaws so quit clutterin up my inbox about the mac.
this is a jaws list, not a mac list.


howard wolcott

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nickus de Vos" <bigboy529@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:14 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more expensive
but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility. If windows
wanted to, they could have made narator in to what voiceover is today
by just putting some efort in to it and interacting more with their
users. My view of apples expensive hardware is that it's more
expensive for a reason, you get what you pay for, e.g. a apple
computer would last you a lot longer than a pc plus the hardware and
software are designed for each other where with pc drivers must be
written for every piece of the pc just to talk to the other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place concerning
accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps
subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple
products with accessibility.

Peter





1. <a href= 'http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Holdstock'
alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge10.gif'
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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
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width='120' height='90'></a>

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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge5.gif'
width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Steve <k8sp@...>
 

You don't understand supply-and-demand, Buddy, ceteris paribus, that would be true. But, here you have a limited market which would get smaller, and relatively high research-and-development and customer support costs which have to be ammortized across a smaller market. As the niche market contracts, one of two things will happen:

1. To maintain the same R&D and support, the price would have to increase as it is serving a smaller user base; or,
2. Screen-reader improvements would be made less often if at all, because there isn't a large enough market to support the programming.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:52 PM
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


Hello Ed and Friends,
I must disagree with you on your thoughts about "Free" screen reading programs coming out and causing the cost of traditional text to speech programs to go up.
I should think the price of JAWS and Window-Eyes would drop considerably, the "Law of Supply and Demand" you understand.

Just my thoughts, and of course you are entitled to your opinion.

If nothing else, I would expect the manufacturers of the JAWS and Window-Eyes programs to strive for more "Excellence" in their product, if there is some competition out there.

With Best Regards,
Alan
Miami, Florida
Alan Dicey, President
United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
"Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
United States Braille Chess Association Home Page: http://AmericanBlindChess.org



----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


I haven't said much as the topics of JAWS alternatives have come up. Several have voiced some admiration for Apple and its built-in screen reader VoiceOver. I don't have a Mac, but I do have an iPhone. So, I know a little about VoiceOver, and I've been on the Mac lists. So, I know more than a little about it.
Periodically, someone will mention NVDA, an open source free screen reader. I've used it, and the experience was far from satisfying. Now, we hear at least a rumor that Narrator will become a full-blown screen reader, however one defines "full blown."
What troubles me is that as more and more people are satisfied with "good enough" because, after all, it is free, the number of those willing to fork over cash for the powerful screen readers like Window-Eyes and JAWS will drop. As that happens, the price will doubtless go up.
Speaking from a purely personal perspective, I would hate to see that happen. I need things like track changes, support for styles, and other powerful features that go along with using Word to its fullest.
NVDA, VoiceOver, and even System Access cannot compete at that level, having no functionality to touch either JAWS or Window-Eyes.
Philosophically, I suppose I should shut up and take my medicine. One could argue that JAWS is artificially high-priced, forcing, or seeming to force, ordinary users to pay for features they don't want or need.
Perhaps if I want the features, I should be willing to pay extra for them.
I know JAWS now has two price levels, with a somewhat higher price for what I use -- Professional Version.
Perhaps, in the future, what we will see is a JAWS light for $100 or so and a JAWS heavy duty for $5,000 or more. Ouch!
Still, one has to consider the features one needs. I may not need all the cell reading functions in Excel, but I'm willing to pay for them to get the professional features I need in Word. I just think we should step back a little before we cavalierly express a willingness for "good enough." My guess is that "good enough" won't in fact be "good enough" just when it is needed most.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:12 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8

I know that they are making Narrator in to a full blown screen reader and is
expected to be competition to JAWS. That said I think it's functionality
still won't come close but then how much of the jaws features do we all use
on the day to day basis at least for home use. Hopefully they will release a
public beta like they did with Windows 7 as it was very successful.

Peter





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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:09 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Windows 8

Hi all I was just wondering if any of you seen anything about windows
8 and if jaws 12 will work with it. Thing is from what I've heard the
windows 8 interface is going to be dramatically redesigned to give it
a fresh look, it is a atemt by microsoft to stay in the game along
side apple.

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Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@...>
 

Hi Howard, Yes I'm still using jaws have a desktop and laptop running
jaws but I use a mac at my workplace. I never said voiceover is better
than jaws, if you read my previous posts I spesifically said voiceover
is not quite up there with jaws. I know this is a jaws list and yes I
was the one who started to talk about apple but I was comparing apples
voiceover and what we speculate about what windows wants to do with
their narator and to me comparing voiceover to where we think they
want to take narator is valid points. The other guys started to talk
about apple pricing but we did not once go off topic.

On 8/29/11, Howard <hwolcott@stny.rr.com> wrote:
hi:
I notice you are still on this jaws list so you must still be using jaws so
I guess voice over on the mac is not the best.
if you have a mac then you don't need jaws so quit clutterin up my inbox
about the mac.
this is a jaws list, not a mac list.


howard wolcott

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nickus de Vos" <bigboy529@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:14 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more expensive
but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility. If windows
wanted to, they could have made narator in to what voiceover is today
by just putting some efort in to it and interacting more with their
users. My view of apples expensive hardware is that it's more
expensive for a reason, you get what you pay for, e.g. a apple
computer would last you a lot longer than a pc plus the hardware and
software are designed for each other where with pc drivers must be
written for every piece of the pc just to talk to the other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place concerning
accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that helps
subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the other Apple
products with accessibility.

Peter





1. <a href= 'http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Holdstock'
alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge10.gif'
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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement in
narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The thing
with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which is us
the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not yet up
there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but still they
listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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James Homuth
 

Ahem. Actually...

You were comparing Voiceover with Narator. This is not a Voiceover list.
This is not a Narator list. Therefore, yes, you did go off-topic. That it
expanded from there to how hardware is priced? Not exactly relevant, as both
are just as off-topic.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: August-29-11 5:03 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Hi Howard, Yes I'm still using jaws have a desktop and laptop running jaws
but I use a mac at my workplace. I never said voiceover is better than jaws,
if you read my previous posts I spesifically said voiceover is not quite up
there with jaws. I know this is a jaws list and yes I was the one who
started to talk about apple but I was comparing apples voiceover and what we
speculate about what windows wants to do with their narator and to me
comparing voiceover to where we think they want to take narator is valid
points. The other guys started to talk about apple pricing but we did not
once go off topic.

On 8/29/11, Howard <hwolcott@stny.rr.com> wrote:
hi:
I notice you are still on this jaws list so you must still be using
jaws so I guess voice over on the mac is not the best.
if you have a mac then you don't need jaws so quit clutterin up my
inbox about the mac.
this is a jaws list, not a mac list.


howard wolcott

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nickus de Vos" <bigboy529@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:14 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more
expensive but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility.
If windows wanted to, they could have made narator in to what
voiceover is today by just putting some efort in to it and
interacting more with their users. My view of apples expensive
hardware is that it's more expensive for a reason, you get what you
pay for, e.g. a apple computer would last you a lot longer than a pc
plus the hardware and software are designed for each other where with
pc drivers must be written for every piece of the pc just to talk to the
other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place
concerning accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that
helps subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the
other Apple products with accessibility.

Peter





1. <a href= 'http://www.justgiving.com/Peter-Holdstock'
alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge10.g
if'
width='270' height='50'></a>

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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
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f'
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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
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f'
width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement
in narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The
thing with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which
is us the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not
yet up there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but
still they listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Dave Scrimenti <dscrimenti@...>
 

Or the 3rd option is that the free alternatives put the paid screen readers out of business. What I'd really like to see is Microsoft take over Jaws or WindowEyes rather than try to improve Narrator. Then we'd have a comprehensive screen reader which would be better integrated in to the OS, and cost no extra money, just like Voiceover.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <k8sp@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


You don't understand supply-and-demand, Buddy, ceteris paribus, that would be true. But, here you have a limited market which would get smaller, and relatively high research-and-development and customer support costs which have to be ammortized across a smaller market. As the niche market contracts, one of two things will happen:

1. To maintain the same R&D and support, the price would have to increase as it is serving a smaller user base; or,
2. Screen-reader improvements would be made less often if at all, because there isn't a large enough market to support the programming.

Steve


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Dicey" <adicey@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:52 PM
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


Hello Ed and Friends,
I must disagree with you on your thoughts about "Free" screen reading programs coming out and causing the cost of traditional text to speech programs to go up.
I should think the price of JAWS and Window-Eyes would drop considerably, the "Law of Supply and Demand" you understand.

Just my thoughts, and of course you are entitled to your opinion.

If nothing else, I would expect the manufacturers of the JAWS and Window-Eyes programs to strive for more "Excellence" in their product, if there is some competition out there.

With Best Regards,
Alan
Miami, Florida
Alan Dicey, President
United States Braille Chess Association - USBCA
"Yes, Blind and Visually Impaired People, Can, and Do, Play Chess!"
United States Braille Chess Association Home Page: http://AmericanBlindChess.org



----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking


I haven't said much as the topics of JAWS alternatives have come up. Several have voiced some admiration for Apple and its built-in screen reader VoiceOver. I don't have a Mac, but I do have an iPhone. So, I know a little about VoiceOver, and I've been on the Mac lists. So, I know more than a little about it.
Periodically, someone will mention NVDA, an open source free screen reader. I've used it, and the experience was far from satisfying. Now, we hear at least a rumor that Narrator will become a full-blown screen reader, however one defines "full blown."
What troubles me is that as more and more people are satisfied with "good enough" because, after all, it is free, the number of those willing to fork over cash for the powerful screen readers like Window-Eyes and JAWS will drop. As that happens, the price will doubtless go up.
Speaking from a purely personal perspective, I would hate to see that happen. I need things like track changes, support for styles, and other powerful features that go along with using Word to its fullest.
NVDA, VoiceOver, and even System Access cannot compete at that level, having no functionality to touch either JAWS or Window-Eyes.
Philosophically, I suppose I should shut up and take my medicine. One could argue that JAWS is artificially high-priced, forcing, or seeming to force, ordinary users to pay for features they don't want or need.
Perhaps if I want the features, I should be willing to pay extra for them.
I know JAWS now has two price levels, with a somewhat higher price for what I use -- Professional Version.
Perhaps, in the future, what we will see is a JAWS light for $100 or so and a JAWS heavy duty for $5,000 or more. Ouch!
Still, one has to consider the features one needs. I may not need all the cell reading functions in Excel, but I'm willing to pay for them to get the professional features I need in Word. I just think we should step back a little before we cavalierly express a willingness for "good enough." My guess is that "good enough" won't in fact be "good enough" just when it is needed most.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:12 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8

I know that they are making Narrator in to a full blown screen reader and is
expected to be competition to JAWS. That said I think it's functionality
still won't come close but then how much of the jaws features do we all use
on the day to day basis at least for home use. Hopefully they will release a
public beta like they did with Windows 7 as it was very successful.

Peter





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Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:09 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Windows 8

Hi all I was just wondering if any of you seen anything about windows
8 and if jaws 12 will work with it. Thing is from what I've heard the
windows 8 interface is going to be dramatically redesigned to give it
a fresh look, it is a atemt by microsoft to stay in the game along
side apple.

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Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@...>
 

James I disagree as I'd suggest it's important for anyone who is considering to either potentially buy JAWS or a Mac for the first time, or pay for an upgrade once JAWS 13 is released to be able to have an honest view of what other screen reading software has to offer and how their development might be affected by changes to operating systems etc..

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: James Homuth
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:03 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Ahem. Actually...

You were comparing Voiceover with Narator. This is not a Voiceover list.
This is not a Narator list. Therefore, yes, you did go off-topic. That it
expanded from there to how hardware is priced? Not exactly relevant, as both
are just as off-topic.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: August-29-11 5:03 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Hi Howard, Yes I'm still using jaws have a desktop and laptop running jaws
but I use a mac at my workplace. I never said voiceover is better than jaws,
if you read my previous posts I spesifically said voiceover is not quite up
there with jaws. I know this is a jaws list and yes I was the one who
started to talk about apple but I was comparing apples voiceover and what we
speculate about what windows wants to do with their narator and to me
comparing voiceover to where we think they want to take narator is valid
points. The other guys started to talk about apple pricing but we did not
once go off topic.

On 8/29/11, Howard <hwolcott@stny.rr.com> wrote:
hi:
I notice you are still on this jaws list so you must still be using
jaws so I guess voice over on the mac is not the best.
if you have a mac then you don't need jaws so quit clutterin up my
inbox about the mac.
this is a jaws list, not a mac list.


howard wolcott

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nickus de Vos" <bigboy529@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:14 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more
expensive but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility.
If windows wanted to, they could have made narator in to what
voiceover is today by just putting some efort in to it and
interacting more with their users. My view of apples expensive
hardware is that it's more expensive for a reason, you get what you
pay for, e.g. a apple computer would last you a lot longer than a pc
plus the hardware and software are designed for each other where with
pc drivers must be written for every piece of the pc just to talk to the
other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place
concerning accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that
helps subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the
other Apple products with accessibility.

Peter





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Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement
in narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The
thing with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which
is us the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not
yet up there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but
still they listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


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James Homuth
 

That's nice that you disagree. However, you were still comparing Voiceover
with Narator. That still doesn't belong on this list. If you wish to discuss
it further, you may do so. Off-list.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: August-30-11 2:58 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

James I disagree as I'd suggest it's important for anyone who is considering
to either potentially buy JAWS or a Mac for the first time, or pay for an
upgrade once JAWS 13 is released to be able to have an honest view of what
other screen reading software has to offer and how their development might
be affected by changes to operating systems etc..

Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: James Homuth
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:03 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Ahem. Actually...

You were comparing Voiceover with Narator. This is not a Voiceover list.
This is not a Narator list. Therefore, yes, you did go off-topic. That it
expanded from there to how hardware is priced? Not exactly relevant, as both
are just as off-topic.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: August-29-11 5:03 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Hi Howard, Yes I'm still using jaws have a desktop and laptop running jaws
but I use a mac at my workplace. I never said voiceover is better than jaws,
if you read my previous posts I spesifically said voiceover is not quite up
there with jaws. I know this is a jaws list and yes I was the one who
started to talk about apple but I was comparing apples voiceover and what we
speculate about what windows wants to do with their narator and to me
comparing voiceover to where we think they want to take narator is valid
points. The other guys started to talk about apple pricing but we did not
once go off topic.

On 8/29/11, Howard <hwolcott@stny.rr.com> wrote:
hi:
I notice you are still on this jaws list so you must still be using
jaws so I guess voice over on the mac is not the best.
if you have a mac then you don't need jaws so quit clutterin up my
inbox about the mac.
this is a jaws list, not a mac list.


howard wolcott

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nickus de Vos" <bigboy529@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:14 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Don't quite agree with you there. Yes apple hardware is more
expensive but it's not to finance side projects like accessibility.
If windows wanted to, they could have made narator in to what
voiceover is today by just putting some efort in to it and
interacting more with their users. My view of apples expensive
hardware is that it's more expensive for a reason, you get what you
pay for, e.g. a apple computer would last you a lot longer than a pc
plus the hardware and software are designed for each other where with
pc drivers must be written for every piece of the pc just to talk to
the
other bits.
Let's not go off topic here, I just think apple was smarter than
windows in making accessibility more of a priority a few years ago,
these roomers of narator becoming a full on screen reader, if you ask
me it's windows realising apple was rite in the first place
concerning accessibility but now they will have to try to play catch up.

On 8/29/11, Peter Holdstock <peterholdstock@msn.com> wrote:
Yes but Apple charge every user much more for the hardware so that
helps subsidise the accessibility side of things. Same with all the
other Apple products with accessibility.

Peter





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alt='JustGiving - Sponsor me now!' target='_blank'><img
src='http://www.justgiving.com/App_Themes/JustGiving/images/badges/badge10.g
if'
width='270' height='50'></a>

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f'
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width='150' height='85'></a>





Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Windows 8 and Candidly Speaking

Agree with you guys but as I said don't put your hopes on narator or
on FS dropping the price for jaws. Sure there will be a improvement
in narator but doubt if it will be big enough to mean anything. The
thing with FS is they don't give a rats ass for the individual which
is us the users. That's what I like about voiceover, sure it's not
yet up there with jaws but apple doesn't even ask $1000 for it but
still they listen to every single one of their users.

On 8/29/11, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi Ed.

I agree with you on all points! Most of the applications I use on a
daily basis, besides email and web browsing, require scripting
support from Jaws. If we all go for the lowest common denominator,
even if it's free, some people will literally lose their livlihoods.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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