Date   

moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

 

Takis,

          Believe me, I can understand the appeal, but you've now identified the plusses and minuses, again.  I have said repeatedly, and will always say, that accessibility (regardless of exactly what type) is a workaround.  You are substituting one sensory modality (audition, in the case of screen readers) for vision, and when doing so you have to make some choices about how to organize things that simply don't have to be made for the sensory modality the thing being accessed was originally aimed at.  Shortcomings of one kind or another are inherent in this process, as no given sensory modality is 100% directly convertible to another in a way that's as freely and automatically accessible in the native one.

           I can imagine using Word for PDF almost all of the time and double-checking when you suspect something may be missing, as that's as close as you're going to get using a conversion method from PDF, not originally generated by Word (which is most of them).  The conversion itself is noted to be an imperfect process, usually one where formatting only is lost, though.  I'd have to be given specific examples of PDFs where content loss is suspected and play with them myself to determine as best I can what has actually occurred.  This isn't something easily, or accurately, described in the abstract.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Rahul Bajaj
 

Brian, thank you. The warning, as I understand it, is only as regards the original format not being preserved. That is not a problem for me. I just can’t afford any text getting lost. And hence am wondering if any text does indeed get lost when this is done. 

Warmly,
Rahul



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Panagiotis Antonopoulos <pantonop2856@...>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:06:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Opening PDFs in Word
 

Hi Brian/all,

The big issue with pefs which make it seductive to have them converted to word, is at least for me, the fact that in many cases but unfortunately not all, footnotes are rendered accessible at the right point. With a real pdf a blind person cannot access them, unless I am missing something, while a sighted reader can see them at the bottom of the page. If a blind person keeps reading and comes to them, and there are a handful of them at the end of a page, then they become irrelevant, as they can not be accessed on their appropriate spot.

                                                                Only a reason, albeit very important in my case for this conversion,

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                Takis

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Παρασκευή, 28 Μαΐου 2021 17:07
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Opening PDFs in Word

 

Word itself warns you that there can be issues converting from PDF to Word for PDF documents not generated by Word itself.

While I understand the convenience, if 100% accuracy with regard to original content must be preserved, then use a PDF reader only to read PDFs when that's the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Phillip Gross
 

To the person who asked about my browser, that would be a hell of a lot of tabs. lol. One of the first things I wondered though was if the latest version of edge, which was what I was using, had a memory leak. I ran chrome and Firefox each for a day. That didn't help. Unless I'm doing a bunch of research which can happen while I'm working, I try not to keep more than one or two tabs open at a time.


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Lori Lynn
 

The PDFs from school are compiled by copying the various parts from different people at the school into one message. I don't have enough computer knowledge to sort it out past that.

As was previously stated in another reply Word does give the warning that some things might be different in a converted message. Several years ago I set Word as the default way to open PDF files, but I don't remember how I did that. I know there is a way in JAWS to read PDF files, but I've never played with it. Since the only PDF files I now get are the ones from school and my phone reads them just fine, I'll stick with that for now.

Lori Lynn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Hi Lori,

Can you please share why this has happened for you? As in, was the content that got lost pure and simple text, or was it different from the content that did not get lost in some way?

Rahul



On 28/05/2021, Lori Lynn <grandma.lori@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have had this happen from time to time. Weekly newsletters from my
son's school usually drop the first page. I've learned the hard way
that if something appears to be missing, try reading the PDF another
way. My alternate is to read it on my Apple phone. That said, I've had
the same problems there and have to go back to JAWS and Word. Good Luck.

Lori Lynn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Opening PDFs in Word

Hi,

I have Office 365, Windows 10, Jaws 2021. I have recently started
opening all PDFs in Word, as I find this to be a very convenient and
smooth way of reading PDFs. To do this, I go to the context menu for
the concerned document, and then to open with and then select Word.

My only question is: Have you ever experienced any content getting
lost in this process? Meaning that the Word version doesn't contain
the full contents of the PDF? It has happened a couple of times,
randomly, to me that the word version did not contain a few words
found in the PDF. It has only happened 2-3 times till now. But I just
want to be sure that this is not a common issue, because I often worry
that I might lose some content if I open the document in Word.

Warmly,
Rahul



--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of
India Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford











--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of India Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford


moderated Re: Accessing Northwest Bank with JAWS

 

Have you asked a sighted person to explain the screen and what might be going on? I think Aira would be able to help here.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 7:26 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Accessing Northwest Bank with JAWS

 

Hi,

 

Is anyone using JAWS to access Northwest Bank?  When attempting to log in, there is something that says “login button”, but it does nothing when pressed, and there is no place to enter a user id or password.

 

Thanks,

Pam

 

 


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Panagiotis Antonopoulos
 

Hi Brian/all,

The big issue with pefs which make it seductive to have them converted to word, is at least for me, the fact that in many cases but unfortunately not all, footnotes are rendered accessible at the right point. With a real pdf a blind person cannot access them, unless I am missing something, while a sighted reader can see them at the bottom of the page. If a blind person keeps reading and comes to them, and there are a handful of them at the end of a page, then they become irrelevant, as they can not be accessed on their appropriate spot.

                                                                Only a reason, albeit very important in my case for this conversion,

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                Takis

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Παρασκευή, 28 Μαΐου 2021 17:07
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Opening PDFs in Word

 

Word itself warns you that there can be issues converting from PDF to Word for PDF documents not generated by Word itself.

While I understand the convenience, if 100% accuracy with regard to original content must be preserved, then use a PDF reader only to read PDFs when that's the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Accessing Northwest Bank with JAWS

Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
 

Hi,

 

Is anyone using JAWS to access Northwest Bank?  When attempting to log in, there is something that says “login button”, but it does nothing when pressed, and there is no place to enter a user id or password.

 

Thanks,

Pam

 

 


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Tom Behler
 

Rahul:

I have not had this issue, but I open PDF's in word in a different way.

I use control F12, which puts me in a dialog box, at which point, I find the file I want to open and go from there. It automatically does the pdf to word conversion which is really nice.

You might want to try this method and see if your results are different.

Tom Behler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Opening PDFs in Word

Hi,

I have Office 365, Windows 10, Jaws 2021. I have recently started opening all PDFs in Word, as I find this to be a very convenient and smooth way of reading PDFs. To do this, I go to the context menu for the concerned document, and then to open with and then select Word.

My only question is: Have you ever experienced any content getting lost in this process? Meaning that the Word version doesn't contain the full contents of the PDF? It has happened a couple of times, randomly, to me that the word version did not contain a few words found in the PDF. It has only happened 2-3 times till now. But I just want to be sure that this is not a common issue, because I often worry that I might lose some content if I open the document in Word.

Warmly,
Rahul



--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of India Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Chris Hill
 

That sounds like quite a problem.  I'd start by completely reinstalling windows, and only using windows' built-in drivers to see if something Dell put on the computer was causing the problem.  Either that or I'd just get ahold of their tech support and give them the opportunity to figure it out or take the computer back.  A brand new machine shouldn't be so much trouble, and other people make computers.


CH



On 5/28/2021 08:55, Phillip Gross wrote:
I have done my scans, but as I said it's a new computer. I first noticed it doing this less than a week after I got it. I didn't notice it before then because I was constantly restarting it while making sure everything was up to date and installing the soft ware I normally use on it. 

I'm pretty sure it's a driver issue, but I asked about JAWS to cover my bases. When this happens and I look at what is using memory I most of it isn't accounted for. 


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

 

Word itself warns you that there can be issues converting from PDF to Word for PDF documents not generated by Word itself.

While I understand the convenience, if 100% accuracy with regard to original content must be preserved, then use a PDF reader only to read PDFs when that's the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Rahul Bajaj
 

Hi Lori,

Can you please share why this has happened for you? As in, was the
content that got lost pure and simple text, or was it different from
the content that did not get lost in some way?

Rahul

On 28/05/2021, Lori Lynn <grandma.lori@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have had this happen from time to time. Weekly newsletters from my son's
school usually drop the first page. I've learned the hard way that if
something appears to be missing, try reading the PDF another way. My
alternate is to read it on my Apple phone. That said, I've had the same
problems there and have to go back to JAWS and Word. Good Luck.

Lori Lynn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Opening PDFs in Word

Hi,

I have Office 365, Windows 10, Jaws 2021. I have recently started opening
all PDFs in Word, as I find this to be a very convenient and smooth way of
reading PDFs. To do this, I go to the context menu for the concerned
document, and then to open with and then select Word.

My only question is: Have you ever experienced any content getting lost in
this process? Meaning that the Word version doesn't contain the full
contents of the PDF? It has happened a couple of times, randomly, to me that
the word version did not contain a few words found in the PDF. It has only
happened 2-3 times till now. But I just want to be sure that this is not a
common issue, because I often worry that I might lose some content if I open
the document in Word.

Warmly,
Rahul



--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of India
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford










--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of India
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018)
University of Oxford


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Phillip Gross
 

I have done my scans, but as I said it's a new computer. I first noticed it doing this less than a week after I got it. I didn't notice it before then because I was constantly restarting it while making sure everything was up to date and installing the soft ware I normally use on it. 

I'm pretty sure it's a driver issue, but I asked about JAWS to cover my bases. When this happens and I look at what is using memory I most of it isn't accounted for. 


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

John Covici
 

Sounds like a browser issue -- they are all memory hogs. Which
browser are you using and how many tabs, etc.?

On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:36:48 -0400,
Thomas N. Chan wrote:

[1 <text/plain; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
I only reboot my main machine, once a week.
I only got 16gb on this machine, its something new to me on Win 10 for me.

how I would isolate the issue is, take out the physical ram and re-sit it.
can you do it on your own?

the way the ram works is, they only get the info that this is how much
capacity it have through another chip.

if that didn't work, is your virtual memory sset to automatic?

32gb is a lot of ram, does not mean all programs will know how to buffet
itself around. check all your startup apps from windows 10 itself. turn off
some of them and see if the problem persist.
if its an software issue, some apps or whichever apps is eating a big chunk
of the ram.

Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


On Fri, 28 May 2021 at 20:04, Chris Hill <hillco@earthlink.net> wrote:

I haven't really noticed anything, but then again, I wasn't checking
either. My memory usage seemed a little high when I checked while ago, but
I hadn't rebooted my computer in several days. My question to you is, how
often do you reboot?



On 5/28/2021 05:49, Phillip Gross wrote:

Okay I have been running the latest version of JAWS 2021 since this
started in February, so I am on my third update. I have a new Dell XPS
that keeps running out of memory. The amount of ram, 32 GB, definitely
isn’t the problem. I’ve chased memory leaks down in all of the normal ways,
and I can’t find anything. I have reinstalled windows twice at this point.

Has anyone seen issues of a memory leak with JAWS? As I said in the
subject line I’m grasping at straws, and I doubt it’s the problem, but I
figured it didn’t hurt to ask.







[2 <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@ccs.covici.com


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Chris Hill
 

Ugg, that sounds bad.  I'd be surprised if jaws is your problem.  I had about 5gb of unexplained ram usage, but I'm sure the machine had been on since last week.


You mentioned having reinstalled windows, so I guess it is down to some program or driver giving you fits.  I'd also be doing some major malware and virus checks, there are things that can survive a reinstall.


CH



On 5/28/2021 08:06, Phillip Gross wrote:
I am responding to both of you at once. As far as runningNVDA or Narrator goes, I have thought about it but haven’t done it. NVDA is my backup, and I need to go back and look up how to read the parts of of resource monitor that I read with the JAWS cursor so that I can.

As far I have to restart it at least once a day. After startup, when everything settles down, I am using about 15 percent of my RAM. Four or five hours later I will be using 98% of my ram and the computer will freeze up.


I should have mentioned this in my first message. Windows 10 Pro is up to date as are all of my drivers.


moderated Re: Opening PDFs in Word

Lori Lynn
 

I have had this happen from time to time. Weekly newsletters from my son's school usually drop the first page. I've learned the hard way that if something appears to be missing, try reading the PDF another way. My alternate is to read it on my Apple phone. That said, I've had the same problems there and have to go back to JAWS and Word. Good Luck.

Lori Lynn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Opening PDFs in Word

Hi,

I have Office 365, Windows 10, Jaws 2021. I have recently started opening all PDFs in Word, as I find this to be a very convenient and smooth way of reading PDFs. To do this, I go to the context menu for the concerned document, and then to open with and then select Word.

My only question is: Have you ever experienced any content getting lost in this process? Meaning that the Word version doesn't contain the full contents of the PDF? It has happened a couple of times, randomly, to me that the word version did not contain a few words found in the PDF. It has only happened 2-3 times till now. But I just want to be sure that this is not a common issue, because I often worry that I might lose some content if I open the document in Word.

Warmly,
Rahul



--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of India Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Thomas N. Chan
 

I only reboot my main machine, once a week.
I only got 16gb on this machine, its something  new to me on Win 10 for me.

how I would isolate the issue is, take out the physical ram and re-sit it.
can you do it on your own?

the way the ram works is, they only get the info that this is how much capacity it have through another chip.

if that didn't work, is your virtual memory sset to automatic?

32gb is a lot of ram, does not mean all programs will know how to buffet itself around. check all your startup apps from windows 10 itself. turn off some of them and see if the problem persist.
if its an software issue, some apps or whichever apps is eating a big chunk of the ram.

Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


On Fri, 28 May 2021 at 20:04, Chris Hill <hillco@...> wrote:

I haven't really noticed anything, but then again, I wasn't checking either.  My memory usage seemed a little high when I checked while ago, but I hadn't rebooted my computer in several days.  My question to you is, how often do you reboot? 



On 5/28/2021 05:49, Phillip Gross wrote:
Okay I have been running the latest version of JAWS 2021 since this started in February, so I am on my third update.  I have a new Dell XPS that keeps running out of memory. The amount of ram, 32 GB, definitely isn’t the problem. I’ve chased memory leaks down in all of the normal ways, and I can’t find anything. I have reinstalled windows twice at this point.

Has anyone seen issues of a memory leak with JAWS? As I said in the subject line I’m grasping at straws, and I doubt it’s the problem, but I figured it didn’t hurt to ask.


moderated Opening PDFs in Word

Rahul Bajaj
 

Hi,

I have Office 365, Windows 10, Jaws 2021. I have recently started
opening all PDFs in Word, as I find this to be a very convenient and
smooth way of reading PDFs. To do this, I go to the context menu for
the concerned document, and then to open with and then select Word.

My only question is: Have you ever experienced any content getting
lost in this process? Meaning that the Word version doesn't contain
the full contents of the PDF? It has happened a couple of times,
randomly, to me that the word version did not contain a few words
found in the PDF. It has only happened 2-3 times till now. But I just
want to be sure that this is not a common issue, because I often worry
that I might lose some content if I open the document in Word.

Warmly,
Rahul



--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Judicial Law Clerk to Dr. Justice D.Y. Chandrachud, Supreme Court of India
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018)
University of Oxford


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Phillip Gross
 

I am responding to both of you at once. As far as runningNVDA or Narrator goes, I have thought about it but haven’t done it. NVDA is my backup, and I need to go back and look up how to read the parts of of resource monitor that I read with the JAWS cursor so that I can.

As far I have to restart it at least once a day. After startup, when everything settles down, I am using about 15 percent of my RAM. Four or five hours later I will be using 98% of my ram and the computer will freeze up.


I should have mentioned this in my first message. Windows 10 Pro is up to date as are all of my drivers.


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Chris Hill
 

I haven't really noticed anything, but then again, I wasn't checking either.  My memory usage seemed a little high when I checked while ago, but I hadn't rebooted my computer in several days.  My question to you is, how often do you reboot? 



On 5/28/2021 05:49, Phillip Gross wrote:
Okay I have been running the latest version of JAWS 2021 since this started in February, so I am on my third update.  I have a new Dell XPS that keeps running out of memory. The amount of ram, 32 GB, definitely isn’t the problem. I’ve chased memory leaks down in all of the normal ways, and I can’t find anything. I have reinstalled windows twice at this point.

Has anyone seen issues of a memory leak with JAWS? As I said in the subject line I’m grasping at straws, and I doubt it’s the problem, but I figured it didn’t hurt to ask.


moderated Re: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Mike B.
 


Hi Phillip,
 
Have you tried unloading Jaws and running NVDA or Narrator, and if so, do you have the same problems?  If possible, have you had someone sighted use your computer and without any screen reading program running do the same memory problems occur?  Also, do you have the same memory problems with running an earlier version of Jaws?
 
 
Stay safe & take care.  Mike.
Just once, I want a username and password prompt to say:  "Close Enough!"
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:49 AM
Subject: I’m grasping at straws, but has anyone had memory problems with jaws?

Okay I have been running the latest version of JAWS 2021 since this started in February, so I am on my third update.  I have a new Dell XPS that keeps running out of memory. The amount of ram, 32 GB, definitely isn’t the problem. I’ve chased memory leaks down in all of the normal ways, and I can’t find anything. I have reinstalled windows twice at this point.

Has anyone seen issues of a memory leak with JAWS? As I said in the subject line I’m grasping at straws, and I doubt it’s the problem, but I figured it didn’t hurt to ask.

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