Date   
Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

You could write the rules so that they say: "All buttons and grapics have lables that can be read by screen readers such as Narrotor, Jaws or NVDA."
This language would not be tied to any technology and allow for change.
On 8/4/2018 9:47 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The problem being that any mandated standards become obsolete far too quickly.

Getting software makers, web coders, etc., simply to follow existing accessibility conventions/standards would make things a lot better than they are were this done consistently.

Too much changes too fast for hard and fast standards to have any real utility in the realm of accessibility.  That doesn't mean that taking accessibility seriously, and getting to the point where it is "baked in" from the start of an undertaking, cannot be achieved though it is a long way off.

A change in attitudes toward what good programming and development practice is for commercial software would go a lot further than any government standard would simply because it's not possible for any standard to keep up with the pace of change.   I have nothing against laws and regulations in general and, with regard to issues surrounding disability they've been a boon in many ways, but this is not a context where they could work as intended and, in fact, could very quickly result in hands being tied in ways that are damaging rather than beneficial.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


-- 
Sincerely: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
Grants Pass, Or. 

Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Dan Longmore
 

I agree, and also more competitions between  companies that provide AT products would help.  Right now, the field is so narrow that VFO and others have no incentive to remain on the cutting edge. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:47 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

The problem being that any mandated standards become obsolete far too quickly.

Getting software makers, web coders, etc., simply to follow existing accessibility conventions/standards would make things a lot better than they are were this done consistently.

Too much changes too fast for hard and fast standards to have any real utility in the realm of accessibility.  That doesn't mean that taking accessibility seriously, and getting to the point where it is "baked in" from the start of an undertaking, cannot be achieved though it is a long way off.

A change in attitudes toward what good programming and development practice is for commercial software would go a lot further than any government standard would simply because it's not possible for any standard to keep up with the pace of change.   I have nothing against laws and regulations in general and, with regard to issues surrounding disability they've been a boon in many ways, but this is not a context where they could work as intended and, in fact, could very quickly result in hands being tied in ways that are damaging rather than beneficial.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill

Re: Test

 

It arrived, and in a font that I could read from across a room.  It's HUGE!
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill

Re: Test

Rick Mladek
 

Your test was successful, thank you.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:53 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Test

 

This is a test message.

 

Pastor Gil Pries

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Test

Richard Turner
 

Pastor Gil Pries you passed the test.

 

 

 

 

 

“The secret is not to make your music louder, but to make the world quieter.” 

- Mitch Albom from The Magic Strings of Frankie Presto, page 1

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:53 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Test

 

This is a test message.

 

Pastor Gil Pries

 

Test

Pastor Gil Pries <revgil@...>
 

This is a test message.

 

Pastor Gil Pries

 

Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

The problem being that any mandated standards become obsolete far too quickly.

Getting software makers, web coders, etc., simply to follow existing accessibility conventions/standards would make things a lot better than they are were this done consistently.

Too much changes too fast for hard and fast standards to have any real utility in the realm of accessibility.  That doesn't mean that taking accessibility seriously, and getting to the point where it is "baked in" from the start of an undertaking, cannot be achieved though it is a long way off.

A change in attitudes toward what good programming and development practice is for commercial software would go a lot further than any government standard would simply because it's not possible for any standard to keep up with the pace of change.   I have nothing against laws and regulations in general and, with regard to issues surrounding disability they've been a boon in many ways, but this is not a context where they could work as intended and, in fact, could very quickly result in hands being tied in ways that are damaging rather than beneficial.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill

Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill

creating a shortcut in windows 10

Jed Barton <jedbarton@...>
 

Hey guys,

OK i have a program installed over here, and wanna create a shortcut.
I haven't done it in so long, i forgot how to. Any ideas? I can find
the app in programs but there doesn't appear to be a way to create a
shortcut.

Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

David Ingram
 

hi, what accessibility standards are currently in placewhen it comes to the visually impared using programs that do not have standard graphics labels or stand labels for buttons in the programs that are being used today. The web accessibility is one way of looking at things but that isn't what i'm talking about. There has been talk about different things having standards applied to them. I just mentioned the standard as it relates to midi. With out that, those of us who use midi would really be in a mess had it not been for a standard being put in place. I don't think that there has been an update as it relates to what the government says in terms of accessibility but there should be a lot of changes. We have the power to change those things that we don't like. Might I aslo ask a question concerning the funding of accessibility training as it relates to music production, who do you think is responsible the federal government or the state government. Also where would those of you who have completed more than your bachelors degrees be without continuing your education, i'm speaking to those who have their p h d degrees. I want you to know that I also espire and have a desire to get a p h d in not only music education but also music production. Some people don't think that a person should be able to do what he knows that he is good at in order to live and be successful. we have such people in the state of Illinois who don't think that you should be able to do what you know that you've been called to do.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sieghard Weitzel <@Sieghard>
Sent: Aug 4, 2018 2:54 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io" <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Sorry, I forgot, it is also thus with iOS apps, Android apps, braille on elevators, audible traffic lights and a large number of other life situations where perfectly accessible solutions exist, are encouraged but not always implemented.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Hi list members, I have this question concerning isn't there an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared? If not why not. If there are web accessibility standards, and standard midi items that are used then surely, there should be an accessibility standard for those programs that the visually impared have to use on a daily basis.there should be a standard graphics labeling convention and a standard button labelling standard that can be adopted so that buttons would have a specific label in the case for those of us who speak English would know that if you're installing a program there is usually a next or install button there should be other buttons that should have those specific labels so that when a button is pressed on a computer program people will know what these buttons are for and they don't have to guess what the buttons are. this would be semular to people who use control surfaces in order to record music they would notice a representation of their control surface on a computer screen and when they move a slider, turn a nob, or push a button they would be able to get a message or hear the message saying that a slider or fader, was moved or a nob was turned, or a button was pushed. These are the types of accessibility standards that we are talking about.





Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

Sorry, I forgot, it is also thus with iOS apps, Android apps, braille on elevators, audible traffic lights and a large number of other life situations where perfectly accessible solutions exist, are encouraged but not always implemented.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Hi list members, I have this question concerning isn't there an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared? If not why not. If there are web accessibility standards, and standard midi items that are used then surely, there should be an accessibility standard for those programs that the visually impared have to use on a daily basis.there should be a standard graphics labeling convention and a standard button labelling standard that can be adopted so that buttons would have a specific label in the case for those of us who speak English would know that if you're installing a program there is usually a next or install button there should be other buttons that should have those specific labels so that when a button is pressed on a computer program people will know what these buttons are for and they don't have to guess what the buttons are. this would be semular to people who use control surfaces in order to record music they would notice a representation of their control surface on a computer screen and when they move a slider, turn a nob, or push a button they would be able to get a message or hear the message saying that a slider or fader, was moved or a nob was turned, or a button was pushed. These are the types of accessibility standards that we are talking about.

Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

And in the ideal world this would all be so, but just because the web accessibility standards this does not mean all websites are perfectly accessible and so it is with desktop or UWP apps.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Hi list members, I have this question concerning isn't there an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared? If not why not. If there are web accessibility standards, and standard midi items that are used then surely, there should be an accessibility standard for those programs that the visually impared have to use on a daily basis.there should be a standard graphics labeling convention and a standard button labelling standard that can be adopted so that buttons would have a specific label in the case for those of us who speak English would know that if you're installing a program there is usually a next or install button there should be other buttons that should have those specific labels so that when a button is pressed on a computer program people will know what these buttons are for and they don't have to guess what the buttons are. this would be semular to people who use control surfaces in order to record music they would notice a representation of their control surface on a computer screen and when they move a slider, turn a nob, or push a button they would be able to get a message or hear the message saying that a slider or fader, was moved or a nob was turned, or a button was pushed. These are the types of accessibility standards that we are talking about.

Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

David Ingram
 

Hi list members, I have this question concerning isn't there an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared? If not why not. If there are web accessibility standards, and standard midi items that are used then surely, there should be an accessibility standard for those programs that the visually impared have to use on a daily basis.there should be a standard graphics labeling convention and a standard button labelling standard that can be adopted so that buttons would have a specific label in the case for those of us who speak English would know that if you're installing a program there is usually a next or install button there should be other buttons that should have those specific labels so that when a button is pressed on a computer program people will know what these buttons are for and they don't have to guess what the buttons are. this would be semular to people who use control surfaces in order to record music they would notice a representation of their control surface on a computer screen and when they move a slider, turn a nob, or push a button they would be able to get a message or hear the message saying that a slider or fader, was moved or a nob was turned, or a button was pushed. These are the types of accessibility standards that we are talking about.

Re: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

David & his pack of dogs
 

Sadly, the Microsoft help desk is not completely free of those who should not be on the line.  Most are helpful but, some just plod through and frankly screw up things.  Yes, I have brought this to the attention of Microsoft even , going into detail of the nuisance operator they have on their phone system. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: August 3, 2018 3:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

 

Hello All,

 

A few days ago someone posted on this list an email describing a more accessible Skype approach, something that is downloaded through the Microsoft Store.  I messed up and lost that message, so those nice instructions are gone.  Can that kind person email it again?  I updated to Skype 8.25 and hate it.  I just got off the phone with the Microsoft accessibility office, but the technician did not know of any such animal, saying that she would back off 8.25 and put me back to version 7.  I thought I must not be explaining it correctly, but after a bit of conversation, it was apparent she did not know.  Hence, my need for that original email!

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

Re: Dec Access 32

 

Have you tried Eloquence? I don't know a single power user of Jaws and computers who uses anything else.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 12:29 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Dec Access 32

Has Jaws ever had the availability of the DecTalk Access 32 software syn?
Having that syn for many many years when I had Window Eyes as my primary screen reader makes it difficult for me to use the syns that come with JAWS 2018.
Thanks

Re: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

 

Hi Tim,

 

First of all, Skype 7 will be discontinued on September 1 and for the most part it is assumed that version 7.x actually won’t work at all any more. You will have to use whatever current version o f Skype 8 or the Skype universal app which you get through the Windows Store. I don’t know if you are a Jaws user, but FS has already announced they will release better Skype 8.x support for Jaws 2018 in an August update and that Jaws 2019 will get progressively more support.

If you want to try the Skype universal app just go to the Windows Store, press Control+E to go to the search box and type in “Skype” and you’ll find it. I am putting my cards on Skype 8.x at this point because while Skype from the Windows Store is accessible you pretty much have to tap around a ton to get anywhere.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 3:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

 

Hello All,

 

A few days ago someone posted on this list an email describing a more accessible Skype approach, something that is downloaded through the Microsoft Store.  I messed up and lost that message, so those nice instructions are gone.  Can that kind person email it again?  I updated to Skype 8.25 and hate it.  I just got off the phone with the Microsoft accessibility office, but the technician did not know of any such animal, saying that she would back off 8.25 and put me back to version 7.  I thought I must not be explaining it correctly, but after a bit of conversation, it was apparent she did not know.  Hence, my need for that original email!

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

Re: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

Tim Ford
 

Terrific!  Now I just need to find someone at Microsoft who does understand this.

 

Thanks again,

Tim

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 5:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

 

Hi Tim!

Unbelievable!

Here is my message again.

Press the Windows key, and tab to all apps.

Press the letter S for store.

When the MS store opens, press CTRL+E to search for a Win10 app in the Microsoft store!

Type Skype in the search edit, and tab to get Skype.

Press enter, and the Windows 10 Skype app from the store will be installed to your apps.

Close Store, and press the Windows key again.

Tab to all apps again, and find Skype that you just installed.

Press the applications key or Shift+F10, and arrow to pin to task bar and press enter.

The Skype universal app will be put on your taskbar.

To get to those pinned programs, just press:

Windows+T

Right and left arrow through your programs you have pinned there, and press enter on Skype.

Skype app for windows 10 will open, and ask you to sign in with your account.

After that, just tab to everything you need, and use it.

I cannot believe this person on the phone at Microsoft did not know about the Windows 10 app for Skype. That blows my mind!

Take care, Tim, and ask anymore questions!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tim Ford
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 6:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

 

Hello All,

 

A few days ago someone posted on this list an email describing a more accessible Skype approach, something that is downloaded through the Microsoft Store.  I messed up and lost that message, so those nice instructions are gone.  Can that kind person email it again?  I updated to Skype 8.25 and hate it.  I just got off the phone with the Microsoft accessibility office, but the technician did not know of any such animal, saying that she would back off 8.25 and put me back to version 7.  I thought I must not be explaining it correctly, but after a bit of conversation, it was apparent she did not know.  Hence, my need for that original email!

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

Re: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

David Moore
 

Hi Tim!

Unbelievable!

Here is my message again.

Press the Windows key, and tab to all apps.

Press the letter S for store.

When the MS store opens, press CTRL+E to search for a Win10 app in the Microsoft store!

Type Skype in the search edit, and tab to get Skype.

Press enter, and the Windows 10 Skype app from the store will be installed to your apps.

Close Store, and press the Windows key again.

Tab to all apps again, and find Skype that you just installed.

Press the applications key or Shift+F10, and arrow to pin to task bar and press enter.

The Skype universal app will be put on your taskbar.

To get to those pinned programs, just press:

Windows+T

Right and left arrow through your programs you have pinned there, and press enter on Skype.

Skype app for windows 10 will open, and ask you to sign in with your account.

After that, just tab to everything you need, and use it.

I cannot believe this person on the phone at Microsoft did not know about the Windows 10 app for Skype. That blows my mind!

Take care, Tim, and ask anymore questions!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tim Ford
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 6:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

 

Hello All,

 

A few days ago someone posted on this list an email describing a more accessible Skype approach, something that is downloaded through the Microsoft Store.  I messed up and lost that message, so those nice instructions are gone.  Can that kind person email it again?  I updated to Skype 8.25 and hate it.  I just got off the phone with the Microsoft accessibility office, but the technician did not know of any such animal, saying that she would back off 8.25 and put me back to version 7.  I thought I must not be explaining it correctly, but after a bit of conversation, it was apparent she did not know.  Hence, my need for that original email!

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

Re: What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

Richard Turner
 

I’m not sure it was a more accessible approach, but Skype UWP (Universal Windows Program) is the one in the app store, which I understand is Skype 12 and in the Fall Windows update coming later this year, it may be Skype 14 or so.

I’m also told that Skype UWP uses pretty much the same hotkeys as
Skype 8.25.

Here is Marvin’s message about getting Windows Apps onto your desktop.

 

Hhi. Found a trick to get universal or metro apps to your desktop.

 

  1. Press control r for run.
  2. 2. Then type in the combo box shell:AppSfolder.
  3. 3. Press enter.
  4. 4. A list of the universal apps will come up.
  5. 5. Press s till you here skype, then press the application key.
  6. 6. Then arrow up or down till you hear create short cut and press enter on that.
  7. 7. A prompt will say it cannot add to the desktop. But would you like to create it, and press y for yes, or enter. The desktop icon is added to your desktop. Did this for the setting app and the skype for windows 10 app.

 

Marvin.

What was that Skype app that is available through the Store?

Tim Ford
 

Hello All,

 

A few days ago someone posted on this list an email describing a more accessible Skype approach, something that is downloaded through the Microsoft Store.  I messed up and lost that message, so those nice instructions are gone.  Can that kind person email it again?  I updated to Skype 8.25 and hate it.  I just got off the phone with the Microsoft accessibility office, but the technician did not know of any such animal, saying that she would back off 8.25 and put me back to version 7.  I thought I must not be explaining it correctly, but after a bit of conversation, it was apparent she did not know.  Hence, my need for that original email!

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford