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Covering the Cost of Blindness Technology
Peter Donahue
Good morning everyone,
A lot of blind people also choose not to create income streams to generate the money to self-fund whatever blindness products and services they need. Mary and I have many ideas for generating additional income streams. We have heard nothing but excuses from blind people we tried to reach out to to help them improve their financial situation. Thanks to someone sharing a business idea with us years ago this past January we were able to buy the latest upgrade of Jaws for Windows, the Dusbury Braille Translator, and my wife Mary bought herself a Braille-Edge 40 without seeking help from rehab thank you
Let me shut down some other rubbish that has come upon other lists on which we shared these accomplishments. Recall above that we said we're willing to help others accomplish what we have done to be better positioned to meet the costs of blindness products and services only to be told we were braggers, and were called many other names I won't repeat. Braggers don't reach out to help others improve their financial situation. I hate to say it but those with such mindsets and who do nothing but complain about the high cost of blindness products and services without being willing to do something about it have created their own problems. While it's true society doesn't always have the best attitude towards the blind the blind themselves are also responsible for their lack of financial resources if opportunities are placed in their laps and they fail to get on board.
I also want to commend VFO for it's new pricing and authorization scheme. They have done something to make it easier for blind people to buy their products. It's now up to blind individuals to seek out opportunities to develop the needed income streams so they can buy whatever VFO product they need without having to turn to rehab for help. Again Mary and I stand ready to assist anyone wishing to follow our lead so they can do what we've accomplished. All the best.
Peter Donahue
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 10:06 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
It seems to me that if and when the SMA program is terminated, the least they can do is discount the licenses with additional years. Has Freedom Scientific/VFO/Vispero forgotten that most blind people don't have a lot of money since so many of us are not employed or receive our JAWS from agencies?
Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/1/2018 9:53 PM, cecropia64 wrote:
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Cristóbal
Dude… Seriously. Stop drowning in a glass of water. If you’re worried about Visperos viability 5 or 6 years from now, then just go year by year. They’ve basically eliminated the barrier of the upfront cost or for those who have fallen behind. Pay your $90 to get current and move on to something else to fret over.
Cristóbal
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 4:27 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Gotcha. But Eric Damery, who has been posting about this new pricing arrangement on another JAWS mailing list, claims that it is cheaper than the SMA arrangement. How is this possible? Under the SMA arrangement, let’s calculate the cost for upgrading to JAWS 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. By my calculation, the SMA route would cost $240, $120 for JAWS 2019 and 2020, and another $120 for JAWS 2021 and 2022. Under the licensing arrangement, the cost would be $90 for each version of JAWS for a total of $360 for versions 2019, 2020,2021 and 2022. Over the long run, the new licensing arrangement would be much more expensive. And what is the advantage of taking out a 5 year license, which would cost $450 versus buying a new license each year for $90 a year? There is no discount for paying in advance. Suppose you pay for a 5 year license, and Vispero goes belly up in two years? Then you’re totally screwed because there would probably be no way to obtain a refund for the years you have not yet used up. Don’t think Vispero could ever go out of business? Think again. It has happened in the past. Companies that sell products for the blind suddenly go under without notice and leave their customers in the lurch. And with more and more JAWS users jumping to NVDA, and the fact that Vispero is essentially increasing the cost of upgrading JAWS every year, they could certainly tick off enough customers to go the way of GW Micro, Optalek and other companies that have bitten the dust.
Gerald
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
From what I have read, as well as listened to from Freedom scientific staff and podcast, it would cost you $90 and it would be that recurring charge each year to keep a current license to have jaws installed and up to three computers.
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Gerald Levy
According to a message Eric Damery just posted on the other JAWS list, the management of Vispero is very optimistic about its future prospect and he believes that the company will be around for a long time. Of course, this is somewhat self-serving, so you can take his reassurances with a grain of salt.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Gerald
-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Campbell Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 12:04 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription I think you are wrong, and the SMA will go the way of the dinosaur, and very soon, too. It seems that Vispero has now become a money-making operation, rather than what Henter and Joyce had in mind, which was to help blind people with accessibility as inexpensively as possible. They were blind and understood that most blind people don't have a lot of money, a concept lost on the new owners of the company. To me, an old lady using JAWS for a very long time, JAWS still is the best screen reader out there. However, as the price increases, it becomes more and more cost prohibitive, to the point where I may have to give it up for something in the open source market, something I'm going to more and more. I'm wondering if Vispero realizes, or cares, that they are losing more and more of their long-time customers to their competition--Narrator, NVDA, etc. In my humble opinion, their new pricing structure is pushing away, rather than attracting customers. Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/2/2018 9:24 AM, cecropia64 wrote: Absolutely! My thoughts exactly. But if you only plan on either trying Jaws for a year or don't plan on keeping up on all versions then the license program seems to be a good alternative.
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Mario
I agree. it makes more sense for those who want to catch up to the
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
latest version. so that means that SMAs will NOT be phased out.
-------- Original Message --------
From: Michael Amaro [mailto:mikeameli@...] Sent: Friday, Nov 2, 2018 12:06 PM EST To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription Sieghard your right. The 90 dollar subscription is for those that fall behind on there jaws versions *From:* Sieghard Weitzel <mailto:@Sieghard> *Sent:* Friday, November 2, 2018 8:27 AM *To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *Subject:* Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription Hi Maria and Gerald, But it is also not that unreasonable to expect that at some point the price for everything goes up. There is such a thing as inflation and it's not like Vispero pays their employees the same wage as they did 20 years ago or that rent, utilities and all that has not gone up. How many of us spend the$90 Jaws is now charging for this subscription each month for our cell phone plan? How many of us pay that or more for our Netflix subscription, for our Apple Music, Spotify or other music service subscription? For how long has FS charged the same $120 for their SMA? Is it really such a big deal to pay $7.50 a month for Jaws instead of $5? That $2.50 difference is less than what a lot of us spend on a coffee from Starbucks and how often a month do you buy that? OK, so maybe you don't buy Starbucks coffee, but there is any number of other examples I could quote where we spend money on luxuries or things we don't really need even for those among us who are on a very limited income. I bet most of us waste more than $2.50 a month on food we throw out because we forgot about it and it has gone bad, Americans and Canadians after all are among the countries with the highest food waste and that is a fact. The point is that Jaws is not a luxury because those of us who need it can't just say "Oh, this month money is tight so maybe let's not go out for dinner or buy lunch but instead I eat a sandwich at home to save money". And for those with relatively basic computer needs there is always NVDA and even Narrator is getting to a point where somebody could happily do email, browse the web and so on. Nobody forces you to use Jaws if you don't want to pay for it for whatever reason. Regards, Sieghard *From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Maria Campbell *Sent:* Friday, November 2, 2018 8:06 AM *To:* main@jfw.groups.io *Subject:* Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription It seems to me that if and when the SMA program is terminated, the least they can do is discount the licenses with additional years. Has Freedom Scientific/VFO/Vispero forgotten that most blind people don't have a lot of money since so many of us are not employed or receive our JAWS from agencies? Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... <mailto:lucky1inct@...> Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/1/2018 9:53 PM, cecropia64 wrote: seems to me that this new system is going to be more expensive by a lot.� With a sma, you are only paying sixty dollars a year.� But if the prices quoted are correct, you'll be paying ninety dollars a year and it goes up from there.� What is the purpose of this?� Stew On 11/1/2018 9:21 PM, Tom Behler wrote: Thanks, Michael. � It seems to me that this new system will replace the older SMA system. � Is this correct? � I do have one concern, though. � $90 a year doesn�t seem to be that great of a deal, since back in 2016, I got two years of Jaws for $120, as long as I purchased the license by December 31. � *Am I missing something?* *�* *Tom Behler* *�* *�* *From:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> <main@jfw.groups.io> <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Michael Amaro *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2018 2:23 PM *To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *Subject:* Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription � from the fs e store. � https://store.freedomscientific.com/ <wlmailhtml:%7b9C3B667B-BEAC-4613-97DF-4EF1CEF83958%7dmid://00000009/%21x-usc:https://store.freedomscientific.com/> � *From:* Tom Behler <mailto:tombehler@...> *Sent:* Thursday, November 1, 2018 11:20 AM *To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *Subject:* Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription � Michael: � Where did you get this info? � I�m asking because the explanation seemed to end in mid sentence. � I�d like to get the full explanation of the various Jaws home options if possible. � Thanks for the help! � Tom Behler � � *From:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> <main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Michael Amaro *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2018 2:05 PM *To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *Subject:* Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription � Stay current with the latest version of JAWS, the world's most popular screen reader, with an affordable, annual license now available for home users in the United States. *Choose between a one-, three-, or five-year option*, with the ability to easily renew your license at the end of your initial term. With a JAWS Home Annual license you will always have the most up-to-date version of JAWS, and will not have to pay for an upgrade to get new versions when they release � you have access to all upgrades released during your license term. Having access to new versions of JAWS as they become available is essential to ensure the ability to use your computer with the continuous updates of Microsoft Windows�, Microsoft Office�, your browser, and other applications you may use. *JAWS License Comparison <https://www.freedomscientific.com/products/blindness/JAWSLicenseComparison>* *What's Next?* After purchasing your JAWS Home Annual license, you will receive an email with instructions and a link to register on the Freedom Scientific Licensing Portal, which allows you to access and manage your software licenses, and provides a simple way to install and activate your software. Your license can be installed on up to 3 of your computers and using the portal, you can easily remove your license from one computer and put it on a new one later. When registering on the Licensing Portal, make sure to use the same email address you used to purchase your license; if you have already registered from previous purchases, simply select the link you receive and sign in � your license will be available. JAWS Home is intended for use by end-users for personal, non-commercial use only and runs on all currently supported versions of the Windows operating system. Refer � *From:* Tom Behler <mailto:tombehler@...> *Sent:* Thursday, November 1, 2018 10:53 AM *To:* 'jfw list' <mailto:jfw@groups.io> *Subject:* Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription � Hello, everyone. � I have been reading bits and pieces of info, but can�t seem to find a nice concise summary of the new Jaws annual home license that apparently is now available with the release of Jaws 2019. � Jaws 2019 is the last Jaws upgrade on my SMA, so I will need to do something to renew it at some point. � Up until now, I�ve renewed my Jaws Home SMA for a two-year period for $120. � If there now is a more economical way to do this, I�d certainly love to learn about it. � Dr.� Tom Behler from Michigan � �
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Re: Can scripts be made for particular websites?
Shannon
Ok thanks I’ll dig around in the help and see what is there for the web page settings.
Appreciate the pointer. Shannon
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dean Martineau
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 9:10 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Can scripts be made for particular websites?
Yes, I am almost positive that one can now script a particular web page. In addition, and perhaps more attainable, In Quick Settings, you can also change settings for a specific (current) page. You can label elements, perhaps use place markers.
Thought-provoking reading: http://bahaiteachings.org
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shannon
Hello,
I am kind of in a bind. The time collection program we use here at work is no longer going to be supported on the desk top version. I had scripts developed for this version but now they are moving to the web platform. At best I think the site is poorley written. It is entirely possible that I don’t have all the skills to work with this site but I have found several unlabled elements, The virtual curser treats the lines in a grid as one continuous line to be read instead of individual elements, and there are bound to be more things I haven’t found yet. If I contact the rehab agency here to help can it even be done? Can a script be written for a web application? Or am I out of luck? Thanks Shannon
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Michael Amaro
Sieghard your right. The 90 dollar
subscription is for those that fall behind on there jaws versions
From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home
Subscription Hi Maria and Gerald,
But it is also not that unreasonable to expect that at some point the price for everything goes up. There is such a thing as inflation and it's not like Vispero pays their employees the same wage as they did 20 years ago or that rent, utilities and all that has not gone up. How many of us spend the$90 Jaws is now charging for this subscription each month for our cell phone plan? How many of us pay that or more for our Netflix subscription, for our Apple Music, Spotify or other music service subscription? For how long has FS charged the same $120 for their SMA? Is it really such a big deal to pay $7.50 a month for Jaws instead of $5? That $2.50 difference is less than what a lot of us spend on a coffee from Starbucks and how often a month do you buy that? OK, so maybe you don't buy Starbucks coffee, but there is any number of other examples I could quote where we spend money on luxuries or things we don't really need even for those among us who are on a very limited income. I bet most of us waste more than $2.50 a month on food we throw out because we forgot about it and it has gone bad, Americans and Canadians after all are among the countries with the highest food waste and that is a fact. The point is that Jaws is not a luxury because those of us who need it can't just say "Oh, this month money is tight so maybe let's not go out for dinner or buy lunch but instead I eat a sandwich at home to save money". And for those with relatively basic computer needs there is always NVDA and even Narrator is getting to a point where somebody could happily do email, browse the web and so on. Nobody forces you to use Jaws if you don't want to pay for it for whatever reason.
Regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
It seems to me that if and when the SMA program is terminated, the least they can do is discount the licenses with additional years. Has Freedom Scientific/VFO/Vispero forgotten that most blind people don't have a lot of money since so many of us are not employed or receive our JAWS from agencies?
Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/1/2018 9:53 PM, cecropia64 wrote:
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Maria Campbell
I think you are wrong, and the SMA will go the way of the dinosaur, and very soon, too. It seems that Vispero has now become a money-making operation, rather than what Henter and Joyce had in mind, which was to help blind people with accessibility as inexpensively as possible. They were blind and understood that most blind people don't have a lot of money, a concept lost on the new owners of the company. To me, an old lady using JAWS for a very long time, JAWS still is the best screen reader out there. However, as the price increases, it becomes more and more cost prohibitive, to the point where I may have to give it up for something in the open source market, something I'm going to more and more. I'm wondering if Vispero realizes, or cares, that they are losing more and more of their long-time customers to their competition--Narrator, NVDA, etc. In my humble opinion, their new pricing structure is pushing away, rather than attracting customers.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~
On 11/2/2018 9:24 AM, cecropia64 wrote:
Absolutely! My thoughts exactly. But if you only plan on either trying Jaws for a year or don't plan on keeping up on all versions then the license program seems to be a good alternative.
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Re: How to make jaws read number of items
Cook, Steve
Try jaws key plus 3
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Steve Cook, CPM Assistive Technology Consultant SC Commission for the Blind 1430 Confederate avenue Columbia, SC 29201 Phone: (803) 898-8788 Fax: (803) 898-8882 E-Mail: steve.cook@...
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Gray Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 9:08 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: How to make jaws read number of items I also have this situation. It appears that somehow a maximum of 13 is the count in any Folder where I have many additional files. If I pres Enter + T it reads the file name and whatever it's place in 13. And, when I press Enter + Tab I hear the same. Thanks. On 11/2/18, Ann Byrne <annakb@...> wrote: In most cases, insert+tab will read the current item, plus how many -- HAVE A MAGNIFICENT DAY GEORGE BURRELL GRAY Ocean Winds Cabarete/Sosua REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
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Re: volume mixer moved
netbat66
it can if there are too many icons showing in the systray. windows will move the excess icons to a over flow area in a sub menu.
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if you open the notification sheveron and open customize you can choose which icons you want to show or be hidden.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Whyte Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 12:44 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: volume mixer moved Hi, I see no reason why a JAWS install would affect that. However, sndvol will launch the volume control, you should be able to pin it to your start menu or where ever you wish. cheers Rob Whyte Assistive Technology | Specialist Services | VisAbility Work days: Mon, Tue, Wed JAWS 2018 certified PO Box 82 North Hobart TAS 7002 62 Invermay Road, Launceston TAS 7248 164 Elizabeth Street, Hobart TAS 7000 T: 03 6232 1248 | F: 03 6232 1221 M: 0429 366 589 E: mailto:rob.whyte@... ________________________________________ From: main@jfw.groups.io [main@jfw.groups.io] on behalf of marvin kotler [m.kotler53@...] Sent: Friday, 2 November 2018 4:34 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: volume mixer moved Good evening list, Marv here. After installing jaw2019, my volume mixer flew south; meaning I get no context menu under system tray icon for speakers. I had to type in the search box adjust system volume before I was taken to volume mixer. If anyone knows how to create a shortcut to this item, I would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg -- Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering.http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
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Re: How to make jaws read number of items
James Lockwood <lockwoodnd@...>
Thank you for your response. I am more looking at a way to make Jaws do it automatically every time it reads out a file name. That’s what window eyes would do. But evidently I can’t find a way to make that happen
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On Nov 2, 2018, at 11:04 AM, George Gray <blindtraveler2@...> wrote:
Nope! Not with JAWS 2018. Thanks. On 11/2/18, Ann Byrne <annakb@...> wrote: -- HAVE A MAGNIFICENT DAY GEORGE BURRELL GRAY Ocean Winds Cabarete/Sosua REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Hi Maria and Gerald,
But it is also not that unreasonable to expect that at some point the price for everything goes up. There is such a thing as inflation and it's not like Vispero pays their employees the same wage as they did 20 years ago or that rent, utilities and all that has not gone up. How many of us spend the$90 Jaws is now charging for this subscription each month for our cell phone plan? How many of us pay that or more for our Netflix subscription, for our Apple Music, Spotify or other music service subscription? For how long has FS charged the same $120 for their SMA? Is it really such a big deal to pay $7.50 a month for Jaws instead of $5? That $2.50 difference is less than what a lot of us spend on a coffee from Starbucks and how often a month do you buy that? OK, so maybe you don't buy Starbucks coffee, but there is any number of other examples I could quote where we spend money on luxuries or things we don't really need even for those among us who are on a very limited income. I bet most of us waste more than $2.50 a month on food we throw out because we forgot about it and it has gone bad, Americans and Canadians after all are among the countries with the highest food waste and that is a fact. The point is that Jaws is not a luxury because those of us who need it can't just say "Oh, this month money is tight so maybe let's not go out for dinner or buy lunch but instead I eat a sandwich at home to save money". And for those with relatively basic computer needs there is always NVDA and even Narrator is getting to a point where somebody could happily do email, browse the web and so on. Nobody forces you to use Jaws if you don't want to pay for it for whatever reason.
Regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Maria Campbell
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 8:06 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
It seems to me that if and when the SMA program is terminated, the least they can do is discount the licenses with additional years. Has Freedom Scientific/VFO/Vispero forgotten that most blind people don't have a lot of money since so many of us are not employed or receive our JAWS from agencies?
Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/1/2018 9:53 PM, cecropia64 wrote:
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Gerald Levy
You’re absolutely right. To me, the five year license is nothing but
a scam to get customers to pay upfront so that Vispero has the use of these
funds immediately. If they were really concerned about their customers who
live on fixed incomes, they would offer a discount of say, 10% or 15% if you buy
a five years license so that it would cost only $400 instead of $450, as a
gesture of good faith to their long-term customers. Again, I see no
advantage paying $450 up front for a five year license when buying an annual
license every year for the next five years would cost exactly the same.
Gerald
From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home
Subscription It seems to me that if and when the SMA program is terminated, the least they can do is discount the licenses with additional years. Has Freedom Scientific/VFO/Vispero forgotten that most blind people don't have a lot of money since so many of us are not employed or receive our JAWS from agencies?
Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/1/2018 9:53 PM, cecropia64 wrote:
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Hi Richard,
If you have purchased Jaws and are maintaining your SMA's you can also install Jaws on more than 1 computer. I think this subscription deal is really meant for new users and people who may have purchased Jaws but did not keep their SMA up to date and who are now 4 or 5 versions behind and would have to pay hundreds of Dollars to get current. It may, as I said, also be something Vispero will move towards for all users down the road, but only they know that.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Richard Turner
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 6:15 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
I am one of those who was a strong supporter/user of Window-Eyes. I was extremely sad that VFO bought them out to finally kill it. That being said, GW Micro was paid a large sum of money by Microsoft to do the Office deal to get Window-Eyes for free. That version did not come with support, if someone wanted support, they had to pay an extra charge. The amount Microsoft paid has never been revealed. I am not going to get into the debate about which screen reader was better since there is no chance Window-Eyes is coming back.
Unless I am missing something really obvious here, the home license for essentially $60 per year is good on one computer. The new deal at $90 per year is good for up to three computers. So, if you are in a household with at least two Jaws users, that is a better deal. If you have only one computer, like myself and am the only one needing Jaws, then the SMA is a better deal.
And, also unless I am missing something, you have always been able to deactivate your license on one computer and put it on another one.
I will not be surprised that I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m happy with buying the SMA.
Richard
“Definition of an expert: An ex is a has-been and a spirt is a drip under pressure.” – Bruce U. Utah Phillips
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gerald Levy
Remember a few years ago when GW Micro stopped charging for Window Eyes updates for those customers who purchased MS Office? Everyone thought this was the best thing since sliced bread, and some members of other lists were so giddy that they predicted that GW Micro would knock Freedom Scientific out of the water and force them into submission. How did that work out? To me, buying a five year license makes no sense unless Vispero offers some kind of financial incentive, like, say a 10% or 15% discount for buying all those additional years in advance.
Gerald
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Gerald,
Good points. Certainly don’t want to speak for Eric, but I think he is alluding to the license being cheaper for those not current as they would no longer need to catch up. That said, Jaws 2019 just used my last SMA so I went online last night and purchase a SMA for the next two versions, 222020 and 2021) for $120 as that is cheaper than two licenses at $90 for each year. Also, in two years when I go to the license option, as I think SMA will end, I will only purchase one year at a time for the very reasons you state. Even if there was a small discount I would stick with one year at a time Al
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Gotcha. But Eric Damery, who has been posting about this new pricing arrangement on another JAWS mailing list, claims that it is cheaper than the SMA arrangement. How is this possible? Under the SMA arrangement, let’s calculate the cost for upgrading to JAWS 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. By my calculation, the SMA route would cost $240, $120 for JAWS 2019 and 2020, and another $120 for JAWS 2021 and 2022. Under the licensing arrangement, the cost would be $90 for each version of JAWS for a total of $360 for versions 2019, 2020,2021 and 2022. Over the long run, the new licensing arrangement would be much more expensive. And what is the advantage of taking out a 5 year license, which would cost $450 versus buying a new license each year for $90 a year? There is no discount for paying in advance. Suppose you pay for a 5 year license, and Vispero goes belly up in two years? Then you’re totally screwed because there would probably be no way to obtain a refund for the years you have not yet used up. Don’t think Vispero could ever go out of business? Think again. It has happened in the past. Companies that sell products for the blind suddenly go under without notice and leave their customers in the lurch. And with more and more JAWS users jumping to NVDA, and the fact that Vispero is essentially increasing the cost of upgrading JAWS every year, they could certainly tick off enough customers to go the way of GW Micro, Optalek and other companies that have bitten the dust.
Gerald
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
From what I have read, as well as listened to from Freedom scientific staff and podcast, it would cost you $90 and it would be that recurring charge each year to keep a current license to have jaws installed and up to three computers.
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
It is my understanding that you just pay $90 a year ongoing. I don't think you can pay $90 and go from Jaws 16 to Jaws 2019 and then buy an SMA for $120 to cover Jaws 2020 and 2021 and that of course makes sense. Maybe at some point Vispero will post something to clarify this or maybe they just explain it to you if you call them which really is what you should do because anything you hear on the list will be either based on people's interpretation based on what they read or heard or it will be based on somebody else explaining it after callingVispero and while this could be entirely correct there is still a chance that person misunderstood how this works and hence provides incorrect information. To me it makes sense if Vispero at some point decides to retire the SMA option and everybody goes to a subscription model even if it's a couple of bucks a month more, but then I don't know this. But as I said before, if they are in fact offering somebody who is way behind or somebody who wants to get Jaws for the very first time to do this for $90 a year then this is in fact a great deal. I gave the example before for a new Jaws user provided my recollection that Jaws Home used to cost $900 to buy and that was without SMA, with SMA is would be $900 + $120 for a total of $1,020. Let's assume somebody buys Jaws 2019 for the first time and they also buy the SMA which gives them Jaws 2020 and Jaws 2021 and that this in fact does cost $1,020. Then let's say they buy 4 more SMA's over the years like this:
Now (in 2018): Initial purchase of Jaws 2019 with SMA to cover Jaws 2020 and 2021 for $1,020. Fall of 2019: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2020 Fall of 2020: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2021, the initial 2 SMA's are now used up, buy 2 SMA's again for $120 to cover Jaws 2022 and Jaws 2023, you now spend a total of $1,140 Fall of 2021: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2022 Fall of 2022: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2023, these SMA's are now used up, purchase 2 more for $120 covering Jaws 2024 and Jaws 2025, you now spent $1,260 Fall of 2023: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2024 Fall of 2024: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2025, SMA's are now used up, again buy 2 more for $120 to cover Jaws 2026 and Jaws 2027, you now spent $1,380.00 Fall of 2025: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2026 Fall of 2026: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2027, SMA's are now used up, buy 2 more for $120 to cover Jaws 2028 and Jaws 2029, you now spend $1,500. Fall of 2027: use 1 SMA for Jaws 2028 Fall of 2028: used 1 SMA for Jaws 2029, SMA's are now used up The above describes what a new Jaws user would spend over a 10-year time span, it's the initial purchase for $900 + 5 SMA packages for $120/each for a total of $600 so all in all $1,500 are spent. If said user can subscribe to Jaws for $90/year over 10 years the cost would be $900 which is the original purchase price of Jaws and a 40% discount over the current model. We all purchased Jaws at some point although I guess in some cases somebody may have had funding to buy it, but maybe not to keep the SMA's up to date. In any case, the person who bought Jaws 10 years ago and kept their SMA's up to date would have still paid $1,500 assuming Jaws cost the same $900 10 years ago and SMA's always cost $120 for 2 SMA's, but I don't think that has changed much. Of course for existing users who are current on their SMA's it is less expensive to continue to buy them as long as Vispero offers that option, but of course we just won't know this and as a business person myself I do understand that at some point costs go up for everything. If Vispero decides that basically charging$60 a year does not cover their costs and that by going to a $90 a year subscription model for all users they can better operate and predict their cash flow then I am totally OK with that even though I once paid a bunch of money up front 30 years ago which a new user now doesn't have to pay. I also bought many versions of Office for hundreds of Dollars and now I simply pay $99 a year for my Office 365 Home subscription whereas the new computer user who has only been around since Office 365 subscriptions have been offered never paid more than $99 a year… so what. Let's not forget that Vispero is a large organisation with probably hundreds of employees, many of whom are blind and who all want to get a paycheque every 2 weeks. They need to have a substantial building, pay for utilities and the usual collection of other costs every business has. NVDA is a project where many volunteers offer their time and expertise yet they also have costs for server space and all that and without donations NVDA would long since have disappeared.
Regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gerald Levy
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 3:24 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
I’m confused. Suppose I wanted to upgrade from JAWS 16, which is the version I am currently using, to JAWS 2019. Are you saying that under the new licensing arrangement I would only have to pay $90 for the upgrade, versus about $480 if I went the SMA route? Or would I have to pay $270 to cover JAWS versions 17,18, and 2018, on top of the $90 for JAWS 2019? Please clarify.
Gerald
From: Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 11:12 PM Subject: Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
I think this is also an offer which would make it much less expensive for somebody who didn’t keep their SMA up-to-date to get current on Jaws. If, for example, somebody was still on Jaws 16 or even earlier they would have to pay several hundreds of Dollars to get current and then another $120 for the SMA. This way they can just subscribe for $90 a year and they are done. What I haven’t figured out yet is if this also applies for new Jaws users, e.g. if you don’t have Jaws at all, can you just pay $90 a year and download/use the latest version of Jaws and as long as you keep you rsubscription active then you can continue to do so? If so then this really is a good option for new Jaws users because instead of paying $900 or whatever Jaws costs + the cost of future SMA’s they would djust pay $90 a year. After 10 years you would have paid $900 which is I believe what Jaws Home costs, if you had bought it for $900 and then you would buy 5 SMA’s at $120/each you would have paid $1,500 after 10 years so if you are a new Jaws user then $90 a year really is a very reasonable price and who knows what happens in 5 or 6 let alpong 8 or 10 years, maybe Jaws won’t exist any more as such, maybe Microsoft buys them out and it gets merged with Narrator into Microsoft and becomes free, I certainly wouldn’t bet on Jaws being the leading screenreader in 10 years any more.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Chris Hill
It sounds like it would be a bit more flexible since you don't have to fight with the activation as much if you use a lot of different computers, but otherwise it looks like a way to generate more revenue. I just renewed my SMa, they will have a little while longer to wait for my extra revenue.
CH On 11/1/2018 20:53, cecropia64 wrote:
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
Maria Campbell
It seems to me that if and when the SMA program is terminated, the least they can do is discount the licenses with additional years. Has Freedom Scientific/VFO/Vispero forgotten that most blind people don't have a lot of money since so many of us are not employed or receive our JAWS from agencies?
Maria Campbell lucky1inct@... Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Blaise Pascal ~ On 11/1/2018 9:53 PM, cecropia64 wrote:
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Re: How to make jaws read number of items
George Gray
Nope! Not with JAWS 2018. Thanks.
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On 11/2/18, Ann Byrne <annakb@...> wrote:
Try insert+tab instead of enter+tab. also, sometimes the status line --
HAVE A MAGNIFICENT DAY GEORGE BURRELL GRAY Ocean Winds Cabarete/Sosua REPUBLICA DOMINICANA
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Re: How to make jaws read number of items
Ann Byrne
Try insert+tab instead of enter+tab. also, sometimes the status line tells the how many of how many--insert+numpad 3.
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At 08:07 AM 11/2/2018, you wrote:
I also have this situation. It appears that somehow a maximum of 13
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Re: Need Details On New Annual Jaws Home Subscription
paul lemm
Hi,
Sorry , please ignore my last post it wasn’t meant for this list, sorry.
Paul
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Re: What is your first version of Jaws
Steve Matzura
Mine was 1577. When I attended a course at DEC Boxboro, I discovered they were using Windows NT on their PC's to get into their VAX's, so my meager little JAWS 3.7 wasn't going to work. I had to have HJ super-express overnight-ship me a new JAWS 4.0, the first version made for Windows NT, I didn't have an authorization for it, so every forty minutes for the following three days I had to reboot my class workstation in order to keep up. What a nightmare that was!
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On 11/1/2018 3:39 PM, Ward Dudley wrote:
Hi Sieghard,
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Re: What is your first version of Jaws
Steve Matzura
I'd disagree with you about item #3. Just because somebody has something for a long time does not relate at all to how well they know or can use it.
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On 11/1/2018 11:58 AM, Michael Munn wrote:
Thanks all for letting me know. I start this thread because
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