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Re: Parler
Andy
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
In a way, it's our fault, letting these big tech
companies quietly intrude into our lives, creating a kind of addiction. How many
of us actually read the terms of service agreements before we click that agree
button? I must admit that I am guilty of that myself. I know folks
who are so addicted to Facebook and Twitter that they take their phones to bed
with them at night because they don't want to miss that post or tweet that may
drop at 4 AM.
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Re: Parler
James English
@Brian:
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I have absolutely no issue with people (president or not) expressing themselves how they wish. It was mentioned before that the supreme court said it was perfectly acceptable to ban the shouting of fire in a crowded building when there was no fire: this was a bad judgement in my opinion. The consequences of speech must be separated out entirely from the speech itself, otherwise we risk creating the sort of society in which people are aggressively self-censoring in case somebody hears what they say and takes it in an unintended way.
On 1/10/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 06:34 PM, James English wrote:-
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Re: Parler
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 06:34 PM, James English wrote:
Authority without responsibility is not a healthy mix.- Amen to that! -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide
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Re: Parler
James English
Hello,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The thing that really gets to me is that section 230 of the communications decency act protects these companies from things like defamation lawsuits caused by things that their users put on the platform as these platforms are not publishers, however when it comes to the political wars they decide to fight they are perfectly able to act like publishers. Authority without responsibility is not a healthy mix. - James
On 1/10/21, Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@gmail.com> wrote:
The president has been banned from Twitter YouTube Facebook. What kind of
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Re: Parler
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 06:21 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
What kind of world we live in win the presidential office can be banned from speaking on public forums.- One in which the sitting President of the United States of America is a demagogue who incites riot. Too little, and way too late. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide
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Re: Parler
Randy Barnett
The president has been banned from Twitter YouTube Facebook. What kind of world we live in win the presidential office can be banned from speaking on public forums.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Randy Barnett
On Jan 10, 2021, at 1:59 PM, Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@...> wrote:
Funny. Devin Nunes was carrying on about this great injustice of silencing on … a popular national conservative talk show this morning. Somehow, these decries of digital gulags and unfair muzzling of ideas sound kind of specious. As if Trump and any of his toadies would be denied airtime or a microphone if they wanted to give a press conference right now. The president’s got an entire room in the White House for this very purpose. Also, given the bent of folks who hang out on 8chan, Gab and Parler… don’t be surprised or hurt if screen reader accessibility isn’t exactly on their things to do or even care about. Cristóbal
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
A private monopoly. Amounts to the same thing, unless you have the resources to develop your own app store, web servers, etc. Companies like Facebook and Twitter have developed a monopoly in social media, buying up or snuffing out competition. There are two smart phone platforms run by two companies, and they have colluded along with Amazon Web Services to stifle free speech. it started with flagging certain tweets and posts, then it went to deleting certain tweets and posts, then it went to closing accounts of people whose speech they didn't like, and now to shutting down entire platforms. The government doesn't have to get involved, someone else is already doing their dirty work for them,and they can alway say that what is happening isn't a violation of the 1st amendment. Technically, that is correct, but what is happening amounts to the same thing.
Andy
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Re: Parler
Randy Barnett
he wasn't rejected. he already signed a contract. the book was scheduled for release in June but after he made some comments supporting conservative views they labeled him as seditious and irresponsible and inciting violence and drop his book that's their own statement as to why they dropped them. and sure you can start your own platform it may be scene by 100 other people. And these big platforms like Facebook Twitter they change mines they effect ourculture. And if you're excluded from that platform you're silenced and that's the end of that. it is sad that people get so angry that they put the worst possible spend on whatever the people they hate say. even to the point of being irrational.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Randy Barnett
On Jan 10, 2021, at 2:07 PM, JM Casey <jmcasey@...> wrote:
It does matter though – just because corporations are “big”, it doesn’t make them so different from the “little guys” online in the 80s and 90s, who would sometimes ban people just because they didn’t like them or they screwed up someothing once. It happened to me plenty of times. The great thing about the internet is that you don’t have to rely on a platoform like that – and if nobody wants to host your views on their platform, you can just create a new one, or pay someone to do it for you. Publishers reject work from famous people all the time – of course said people are likely to blame the people rejecting their work, and not themselves or the work they do. Getting rejected hurts. These online platforms have never stated they were open to any and all content.
As someone who has uh, occasionally engaged in somewhat sketchy things on the internet, I would like it if people adopted a more old-school attitude toward internet usage and been more willing to adopt different sorts of platforms. We don’t necessarily have to rely on these big corporations and their platforms. We just think about them all the time because they appear ubiquitous. But that won’t be forever. While some of these corporate rules sure are crap, a nice thing about living in the 21st century is that we are in a time when nearly everything really is available somewhere. We just have to detach ourselves from these big monopolies.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
it doesn't matter if it's a government or a couple of huge corporations. if they're able to stop you from getting your ideas out to people it is stopping free speech. Senator Holly's book was dropped by the publisher because he said the wrong things according to those in charge. when the only way to get ideas out in this modern world is via publishers Facebook YouTube Twitter and apparently Amazon those who control the servers. Then they are able to stifle free speech. It doesn't have to be a government to stifle free speech and free speech should be protected even from corporations.I'm platforms like YouTube Twitter One platforms like YouTube Twitter Facebook start deciding what can be and not be published on their pages they are a publisher and the rules for publishers are totally different from the rules for web platforms. They have to abide by those rules. As corporations now pretty much control all speech in this country. Randy Barnett
Andy and All, Keep in mind that it is not the government stopping anything, it is a private business doing this. Glenn
The long term consequences of stifling free speech would be a lot worse than any speech. The founders thought that free speech was so important that they made it the 1st amendment to the Constitution. Voltaire said, "I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". i would suggest that you either read or reread George Orwell's "1984".
Andy
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Re: Parler
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 04:59 PM, Cristóbal wrote:
Somehow, these decries of digital gulags and unfair muzzling of ideas sound kind of specious.- It's more than "kind of" specious. I wrote the following several years ago, when a cycle of inanity about censorship by one platform or another was going on and there were the usual stupid (and they are stupid to anyone who knows history and the law) cries of "freedom of speech!" Suppression of expression by the government is censorship. Suppression of expression by a publisher or broadcaster over what it disseminates is editorial oversight. Suppression of expression of the wrong thing by oneself is discretion, restraint, and good manners. Suppression of expression of children by their parents is necessary socialization and good parenting. ~ Brian Vogel The Constitution is a document that defines the relationship between the government and the people, and the powers it can and cannot exercise. It is, intentionally, silent about what any private individual or entity may or may not choose to do with regard to expression or prohibiting/suppressing same. And anyone who doesn't see Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, etc., as a publisher that can and should have absolute control over what they will, or will not, permit for dissemination by their platforms is engaging in willful ignorance. Those venues are not any given member's personal soapbox. Let's not even get into the cries that speech having unwanted consequences because others put their feet down being an infringement on freedom of speech. Freedom of speech has not, and never will, mean freedom from the logical (or, sometimes, illogical but predictable) consequences of having said something. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. ~ André Gide
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Re: Is Windows Mail now working with JFW
Jessica D
On Jan 9, 2021, at 3:53 PM, E.M. Kirtley <ekirtley45@...> wrote:
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Re: Parler
JM Casey
It does matter though – just because corporations are “big”, it doesn’t make them so different from the “little guys” online in the 80s and 90s, who would sometimes ban people just because they didn’t like them or they screwed up someothing once. It happened to me plenty of times. The great thing about the internet is that you don’t have to rely on a platoform like that – and if nobody wants to host your views on their platform, you can just create a new one, or pay someone to do it for you. Publishers reject work from famous people all the time – of course said people are likely to blame the people rejecting their work, and not themselves or the work they do. Getting rejected hurts. These online platforms have never stated they were open to any and all content.
As someone who has uh, occasionally engaged in somewhat sketchy things on the internet, I would like it if people adopted a more old-school attitude toward internet usage and been more willing to adopt different sorts of platforms. We don’t necessarily have to rely on these big corporations and their platforms. We just think about them all the time because they appear ubiquitous. But that won’t be forever. While some of these corporate rules sure are crap, a nice thing about living in the 21st century is that we are in a time when nearly everything really is available somewhere. We just have to detach ourselves from these big monopolies.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: January 10, 2021 04:12 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Parler
it doesn't matter if it's a government or a couple of huge corporations. if they're able to stop you from getting your ideas out to people it is stopping free speech. Senator Holly's book was dropped by the publisher because he said the wrong things according to those in charge. when the only way to get ideas out in this modern world is via publishers Facebook YouTube Twitter and apparently Amazon those who control the servers. Then they are able to stifle free speech. It doesn't have to be a government to stifle free speech and free speech should be protected even from corporations.I'm platforms like YouTube Twitter One platforms like YouTube Twitter Facebook start deciding what can be and not be published on their pages they are a publisher and the rules for publishers are totally different from the rules for web platforms. They have to abide by those rules. As corporations now pretty much control all speech in this country. Randy Barnett
Andy and All, Keep in mind that it is not the government stopping anything, it is a private business doing this. Glenn
The long term consequences of stifling free speech would be a lot worse than any speech. The founders thought that free speech was so important that they made it the 1st amendment to the Constitution. Voltaire said, "I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". i would suggest that you either read or reread George Orwell's "1984".
Andy
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Re: Parler
Cristóbal
Funny. Devin Nunes was carrying on about this great injustice of silencing on … a popular national conservative talk show this morning. Somehow, these decries of digital gulags and unfair muzzling of ideas sound kind of specious. As if Trump and any of his toadies would be denied airtime or a microphone if they wanted to give a press conference right now. The president’s got an entire room in the White House for this very purpose. Also, given the bent of folks who hang out on 8chan, Gab and Parler… don’t be surprised or hurt if screen reader accessibility isn’t exactly on their things to do or even care about. Cristóbal
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 12:54 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Parler
A private monopoly. Amounts to the same thing, unless you have the resources to develop your own app store, web servers, etc. Companies like Facebook and Twitter have developed a monopoly in social media, buying up or snuffing out competition. There are two smart phone platforms run by two companies, and they have colluded along with Amazon Web Services to stifle free speech. it started with flagging certain tweets and posts, then it went to deleting certain tweets and posts, then it went to closing accounts of people whose speech they didn't like, and now to shutting down entire platforms. The government doesn't have to get involved, someone else is already doing their dirty work for them,and they can alway say that what is happening isn't a violation of the 1st amendment. Technically, that is correct, but what is happening amounts to the same thing.
Andy
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moderated
Re: Parler
Dan Longmore
Hi, I hear you, but the problem is some groups can yell “fire” and nobody moves and other groups yell “fire” and shut down occurs.
Dan
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 4:20 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Parler
The Supreme Court has pointed out that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater isn’t protected free speech. Incitement plus violence equates to doing just that and worse. The Founders had no difficulty in endorsing laws against sedition, treason and other dangerous activity. With freedom comes responsibility.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
so you're OK with someone banning anything you have to say if they don't agree with it? I myself may hate something someone says but they have the right to say it. Randy Barnett
As of Saturday, Apple suspended Parler (correct spelling) because it embraces threats of violence and illegality. If those are things you admire, you’ll need to look elsewhere.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
I was ready to download Parlar until i saw a review on the app store that said that it is inaccessible for blind users because in order to join you need to solve an inaccessible CAPTCHA
Andy .
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Re: Parler
Dan Longmore
I agree with you. A dangerous slide begins when we start turning off debate. Just think how many different opinions there are about JAWS on this list. Hey, I might have to ban myself as some days I just can’t tolerate JAWS. 😊
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 4:14 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Parler
so you're OK with someone banning anything you have to say if they don't agree with it? I myself may hate something someone says but they have the right to say it. Randy Barnett
As of Saturday, Apple suspended Parler (correct spelling) because it embraces threats of violence and illegality. If those are things you admire, you’ll need to look elsewhere.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
I was ready to download Parlar until i saw a review on the app store that said that it is inaccessible for blind users because in order to join you need to solve an inaccessible CAPTCHA
Andy .
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moderated
Re: Parler
Randy Barnett
yes the problem is the stuff that's being censored and said to be this type of speech isn't always so it's a it's just a way to censor opinions. and you and I aren't the ones to get to decide what is free-speech and what isn't.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Randy Barnett
On Jan 10, 2021, at 1:20 PM, Adrian Spratt <adrian@...> wrote:
The Supreme Court has pointed out that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater isn’t protected free speech. Incitement plus violence equates to doing just that and worse. The Founders had no difficulty in endorsing laws against sedition, treason and other dangerous activity. With freedom comes responsibility.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
so you're OK with someone banning anything you have to say if they don't agree with it? I myself may hate something someone says but they have the right to say it. Randy Barnett
As of Saturday, Apple suspended Parler (correct spelling) because it embraces threats of violence and illegality. If those are things you admire, you’ll need to look elsewhere.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Andy
I was ready to download Parlar until i saw a review on the app store that said that it is inaccessible for blind users because in order to join you need to solve an inaccessible CAPTCHA
Andy .
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moderated
installing JGauge progress monitoring scripts
Mario
Message body
I'm wanting to install these scripts, but am concerned that doing so will wipe out or mess up the myextensions script I already have which has a few scripts that I created and a couple from other sources. do these scripts simply uncompress into a folder, at which I can integrate them mhyself into the myextensions script, or what do they exactly do. anyone know? I'm wanting to install these scripts, but am concerned that doing so will wipe out or mess up the myextensions script I already have which has a few scripts that I created and a couple from other sources. do these scripts simply uncompress into a folder, at which I can integrate them mhyself into the myextensions script, or what do they exactly do. anyone know?
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Re: Parler
Randy Barnett
I see a political discussion I don't see any rants. Yes you're right this isn't the form for it but please at least use the correct terminology and not the media inspired crap.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Randy Barnett
On Jan 10, 2021, at 1:18 PM, Don Walls <donwalls@...> wrote:
Enough already! This list is to deal with questions about JAWS, not
political or other rants.
Don
From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 1:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Parler so
you're OK with someone banning anything you have to say if they don't agree with
it? I myself may hate something someone says but they have the right to say
it. Randy Barnett
On Jan 9, 2021, at 9:53 PM, Adrian Spratt <adrian@...> wrote:
As of Saturday, Apple suspended Parler (correct spelling) because it embraces threats of violence and illegality. If those are things you admire, you’ll need to look elsewhere.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Andy
I was ready to download Parlar until i saw a review on the app store that said that it is inaccessible for blind users because in order to join you need to solve an inaccessible CAPTCHA
Andy .
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Re: Parler
Adrian Spratt
And like you, Don, I can’t believe this thread has been spooling out for so long.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Don Walls
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 4:24 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Parler
I couldn’t have said it better, Adrian. Thanks!
Don
From: Adrian Spratt Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 1:20 PM Subject: Re: Parler
The Supreme Court has pointed out that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater isn’t protected free speech. Incitement plus violence equates to doing just that and worse. The Founders had no difficulty in endorsing laws against sedition, treason and other dangerous activity. With freedom comes responsibility.
From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
so you're OK with someone banning anything you have to say if they don't agree with it? I myself may hate something someone says but they have the right to say it. Randy Barnett
As of Saturday, Apple suspended Parler (correct spelling) because it embraces threats of violence and illegality. If those are things you admire, you’ll need to look elsewhere.
From:
main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Andy
I was ready to download Parlar until i saw a review on the app store that said that it is inaccessible for blind users because in order to join you need to solve an inaccessible CAPTCHA
Andy .
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Re: MeWe
Randy Barnett
Randy Barnett
On Jan 9, 2021, at 9:26 PM, Bill Tessore <billtessore@...> wrote:
All I know is it’s a social media site inspired by the increasingly blatant sensorial actions of Big Tech against users with opinions that contrast with the alt-left views of those companies’ positions, particularly with regard to political matters. Others are Parler and of course the first thing that happens is it gets labeled violent hate side and gets pulled! you're not gonna have free speech in this country it's already getting to wear certain part of the population is not allowed to have an opinion. no matter what you think of the president the fact that companies can ban the presidential office from having their voice heard it is crazy!.com and Gab.com. Also there’s a search engine that does NOT artificially search results based on how closely sites/companies adhere to, or how sharply others diverge from similarly far left ideals, like Google. com does. Shalom. Bill Tessore billtessore@... On Jan 9, 2021, at 2:14 PM, marilyn <tinkerbelltx@...> wrote:
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Re: Parler
Don Walls
I couldn’t have said it better, Adrian. Thanks!
Don
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 1:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Parler The Supreme Court has pointed out that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater isn’t protected free speech. Incitement plus violence equates to doing just that and worse. The Founders had no difficulty in endorsing laws against sedition, treason and other dangerous activity. With freedom comes responsibility.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
so you're OK with someone banning anything you have to say if they don't agree with it? I myself may hate something someone says but they have the right to say it. Randy Barnett
As of Saturday, Apple suspended Parler (correct spelling) because it embraces threats of violence and illegality. If those are things you admire, you’ll need to look elsewhere.
From: main@jfw.groups.io
<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
I was ready to download Parlar until i saw a review on the app store that said that it is inaccessible for blind users because in order to join you need to solve an inaccessible CAPTCHA
Andy .
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moderated
Re: Parler
Andy
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I feel that the long term effects of stifling free
speech are much more dangerous than speech itself. Also, any such restrictions
should be even handed. There are many people and entities that post
content that contains violence, including the leaders of iran, China, and
influencers in Iraq, Syria, etc. and their posts are not being sensored, and
their accounts are not being deleted.
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