Date   

Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Sugar <sugarsyl71@...>
 

Amen, thank you sandy.
this is getting very old
sugar

"Let Your Light So Shine before men,
so that they may see your good works and glorify our heavenly father in heaven.
`Matthew 5:16"
~Be Blessed, Sugar

----- Original Message -----
From: "sandy stegmayer" <ssteg@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


It's none of your business. FS is a private company functioning in a capitalist country... Thank heavens. If there were no such thing as a profit margin, what would be the motivation tpo invest very large sums of money into R&D.
Yes, computers have been wonderful for the blind but amazingly some of us old folks managed to get through school and get jobs back in the "Dark Ages" or should I say BC (before computers).

Don't you think it's about time to end this conversation. I thought the list's purpose had something to do with helping it's members with tasks relevent to JAWS usage.

Sandy


--------------------------------------------------
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:16 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
#############################################################################################################

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

sandy stegmayer <ssteg@...>
 

Good girl Karen!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:21 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

i like to believe most people pay for the program. it is learning about the program that concerns me. i have taken a lot of classes to learn all the cool stuff about it. many dont know that this service is available. i also get help when i have a problem. this is worth a lot to me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much more practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support (and do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free upgrades and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product is still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people are stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

sandy stegmayer <ssteg@...>
 

It's none of your business. FS is a private company functioning in a capitalist country... Thank heavens. If there were no such thing as a profit margin, what would be the motivation tpo invest very large sums of money into R&D.
Yes, computers have been wonderful for the blind but amazingly some of us old folks managed to get through school and get jobs back in the "Dark Ages" or should I say BC (before computers).

Don't you think it's about time to end this conversation. I thought the list's purpose had something to do with helping it's members with tasks relevent to JAWS usage.

Sandy


--------------------------------------------------
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:16 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
#############################################################################################################

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

sandy stegmayer <ssteg@...>
 

Karen,

That depends upon which guide dog school you attend. All my dogs have been from th Seeing Eye where you pay $150 for your first dog and $50 for all replacements. This is the same price structure they have used since their inception in 1929. The Lions have nothing to do with this school. When you leave the school, noone, including the Seeing Eye., can tell you what to do with your doog which if I am correct, is not the case with some of the other schools. You and you alone own your dog.

And yes, it costs thousands of dollars for them to train your animal. The above costs above cover all your expenses, including transportation from anywhere in the U.S. ... and I can tell you, this school treats you fabulously and with a great deal of respect.

Sandy... whose 3rd dog, Dory, sadly died this past Christmas Eve.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:15 PM
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

i was told the dog school charges one dollar for the dog, but it cost them thirty five thousand dollars to train a dog and the lions club pay for this because they sponsor the blind. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


No, Nickus, the guide dog schools give the dogs totally free to the final users.
But they spent a lot of money since the dog is a puppy to the final training stage.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

I don't agree with piracy but agree that jaws and most other assistive
devices are crazally expensive. If you really can't aford jaws then
use NVDA, it's totally free and feeture wise it's rite up there with
jaws, in fact there's some semi accessible software which I can access
better with NVDA than with jaws. Something else somebody mentioned,
does it really cost $3800 to get a guide dog in the US? If I
understand rite, that's crazy. In South africa we pay about the
equivalent of $15 or $20 but then again for stuff like jaws we pay
about equivalent of $1500. We don't easally get government bersaries
for assistive devices but can claim assistive devices back from the
government through income tax but you must still have the cash to fork
out and then wait a year or more before you can claim it back.

On 2/4/12, Juan Pablo <jpculasso@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Adrian, let me know where I justified the piracy. Only I put on the
table a thing that is not never mentioned here. As I wrote in my last e-mail
leave away the "easy words"
I know that this topic turn very unconfortable. Sorry, but is a part of your
reality. I promise you do not respond any future e-mail regarding that.

All the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:58 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

This is like saying that because some people get paid government benefits,
tax cheating is a legitimate means of making things equal. I'm surprised
anyone on this list would justify theft.

I'm sorry to extend an off-topic thread, but I can't let this kind of
thinking go unchallenged.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Juan Pablo
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:28 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Exactly, Gerald.

A lot of you have an original jaws installed cause of subsidied agencies by
the goverments.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of $1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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Re: Donating JAWS

Karen Hughes <khughes8@...>
 

i agree, giving away your license makes no sense at all. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "BRLGRL" <axs.brl@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Donating JAWS


Hi.
Just my $.02, fwiw. If you donate JFW and sign over your license, then I think the ability for you to upgrade to a newer version from the one you're currently using gets nixed, since you no longer own your license. For that matter, if your copy of JFW crashes on you, you won't be able to get any more keys, since the keys are tied to the license number that was formerly yours.
More Later,
Dani

On 2/4/2012 6:23 AM, RJ Sandefur wrote:
How much does it cost to do this? RJ
----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar and His Beamer" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: Donating JAWS


DeadCatBounce,

No, Sending JAWS to third world countries does no good. They need your
license to run it. Are you willing to donate your license as well? If so
you'll need to specify the new owner and contact Freedom Scientific to have
them formally transfer the license.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message ----- From: "deadcatbounce" <JAWS@ca.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:01
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


So a "crack" is a bootlegged copy of the original? I paid full price for
mine years ago, but I do hae a question for people: Do you just toss the
old versions of JAWS once you get the new one or do you keep them around?
I've heard of people who send their old copies to Africa or other
third-world countries or something like that. Is that a viable, or legal,
option for old CD's that are just sitting around and which you haven't
tossed yet?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7



Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of $1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Karen Hughes <khughes8@...>
 

i like to believe most people pay for the program. it is learning about the program that concerns me. i have taken a lot of classes to learn all the cool stuff about it. many dont know that this service is available. i also get help when i have a problem. this is worth a lot to me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much more practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support (and do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free upgrades and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product is still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people are stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
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Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Dave...
 

Richard,

Ed put it forth very well, but you mentioned profit margin, which of course
keeps FS operating. Presuming that they are privately-owned, the profit goes
back into development and other recurring costs, after removing the money
that the owners need to put food on their own tables and for investments and
for retirement, perhaps. There is definitely a profit motive -- it's the
economic engine that drives so much of our lives, for good or bad.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:10
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Thanks, I agree with your position too with just a slight twist-- surely
there are vastly more Windows and Apple users and the cost to develop is the
key factor to divide out per license. I also suspect that support may be
more complicated (costly per user) with JAWS, partly because there are so
many fewer users such that more of the problems have to get solved by FS
directly, as opposed to in forums like this-- just a gut feeing there.

The fact remains however that there is no real "Pepsi" to their "Coke"
(maybe there is the odd "store brand" cola), and that always leaves more
room for the one item I think you did leave from your list: profit margin.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:

Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.
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Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Gerald Levy
 

Well, FS does have competition from GW Micro's Window Eyes. Yet, the price of both JAWS and Window Eyes remains high. Why? I suspect that both companies have conspired to fix prices at arbitrarily high levels. But because they are relatively small, they have managed to avoid the scrutiny of the FTC.

Gerald

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


It may cost them less than that. I think the product is overpriced, and I highly object to charging for skipped upgrades or SMA's where no support was ever offered for those versions. If that business model works, they should be increasing the product cost of each new version to make new customers pay for versions they never owned, right?

The problem with the system is there is no real competition on par with JAWS and there probably won't be for a long time. Even a great new p roduct would take forever to gain enough market share that it is a viable replacement in the workplace.

If the Coke company wants to start charging $20 for a can of Coke, they can do that, but as long as there is Pepsi and the odd RC Cola (or whatever) Coke would loose a lot of money in the process of jacking up their prices. That applies to most everything we buy. Cell phones got much cheaper in recent years because (in part) there has been competition in the marketplace. When you have no competition, you can pretty well set pricing at will. Make no mistake about it, Freedom Scientific is not a non-proffit organization.

Freedom could absolutely use some competition, at least from the consumers' standpoint. It drives pricing down and product quality up. That however doesn't mean that if Cokes (my personal favorite) go up to $20 apiece I can justify stealing them because I think they are overpriced. That's where it all breaks down for me.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 11:50 AM, cecropia64 wrote:

unfortunately, nobody said that greed doesn't have a whole lot to do with all this, because it certainly does. also, do you really think jaws costs a thousand bucks? i'll bet it costs freedome about a hundred and fifty to twwo hundred to actually produce, if that. oh well, looks like there isn't one answer that fits all.

On 2/4/2012 11:33 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
Just one thing else for interest sake now that you mention steeling
from software companies pockets. I know this is getting off topic but
end of last year sometime I read a study, they actually said if
Microsoft considerably drop their software prices for windows and
office, they'll actually make more of a profit than they currently do.
Because at the moment windows and office is the most pirated software
worldwide and if it's cheeper more people will buy it. If you think
about it most people pirate software because they can't afford it so
imagine how many more will buy windows if it was like $40 or $50, just
look at Apple's Lion OS, the upgrade cost people $30 for 10 machines
assentially $3 per computer.

On 2/4/12, Nickus de Vos<bigboy529@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't agree with piracy but agree that jaws and most other assistive
devices are crazally expensive. If you really can't aford jaws then
use NVDA, it's totally free and feeture wise it's rite up there with
jaws, in fact there's some semi accessible software which I can access
better with NVDA than with jaws. Something else somebody mentioned,
does it really cost $3800 to get a guide dog in the US? If I
understand rite, that's crazy. In South africa we pay about the
equivalent of $15 or $20 but then again for stuff like jaws we pay
about equivalent of $1500. We don't easally get government bersaries
for assistive devices but can claim assistive devices back from the
government through income tax but you must still have the cash to fork
out and then wait a year or more before you can claim it back.

On 2/4/12, Juan Pablo<jpculasso@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Adrian, let me know where I justified the piracy. Only I put on
the
table a thing that is not never mentioned here. As I wrote in my last
e-mail
leave away the "easy words"
I know that this topic turn very unconfortable. Sorry, but is a part of
your
reality. I promise you do not respond any future e-mail regarding that.

All the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:58 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

This is like saying that because some people get paid government
benefits,
tax cheating is a legitimate means of making things equal. I'm surprised
anyone on this list would justify theft.

I'm sorry to extend an off-topic thread, but I can't let this kind of
thinking go unchallenged.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Juan Pablo
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:28 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Exactly, Gerald.

A lot of you have an original jaws installed cause of subsidied agencies
by
the goverments.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of $1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked
or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo"<jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

Are FS's accounts available publicly? What profit margins does it make on jaws?

On 2/4/12, wogg le4 <woggle4@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.



On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101,
it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate
in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't
pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the
purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart
to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit
maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this
very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or
wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect
of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from
its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely
restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people
poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for
a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to
duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple
economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our
young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the
same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and
brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the
product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting
them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't
get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February
04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re:
Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
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#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
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Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Dave...
 

Ed,

Nice. Without your experience I could not have come even close to stating it
so eloquently.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:04
Subject: RE: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked


Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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#############################################################################################################
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
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#############################################################################################################

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Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Karen Hughes <khughes8@...>
 

i was told the dog school charges one dollar for the dog, but it cost them thirty five thousand dollars to train a dog and the lions club pay for this because they sponsor the blind. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


No, Nickus, the guide dog schools give the dogs totally free to the final users.
But they spent a lot of money since the dog is a puppy to the final training stage.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

I don't agree with piracy but agree that jaws and most other assistive
devices are crazally expensive. If you really can't aford jaws then
use NVDA, it's totally free and feeture wise it's rite up there with
jaws, in fact there's some semi accessible software which I can access
better with NVDA than with jaws. Something else somebody mentioned,
does it really cost $3800 to get a guide dog in the US? If I
understand rite, that's crazy. In South africa we pay about the
equivalent of $15 or $20 but then again for stuff like jaws we pay
about equivalent of $1500. We don't easally get government bersaries
for assistive devices but can claim assistive devices back from the
government through income tax but you must still have the cash to fork
out and then wait a year or more before you can claim it back.

On 2/4/12, Juan Pablo <jpculasso@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Adrian, let me know where I justified the piracy. Only I put on the
table a thing that is not never mentioned here. As I wrote in my last e-mail
leave away the "easy words"
I know that this topic turn very unconfortable. Sorry, but is a part of your
reality. I promise you do not respond any future e-mail regarding that.

All the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:58 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

This is like saying that because some people get paid government benefits,
tax cheating is a legitimate means of making things equal. I'm surprised
anyone on this list would justify theft.

I'm sorry to extend an off-topic thread, but I can't let this kind of
thinking go unchallenged.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Juan Pablo
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:28 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Exactly, Gerald.

A lot of you have an original jaws installed cause of subsidied agencies by
the goverments.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of $1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

I agree with your description of the advantages of price discrimination.

However, your "piracy is greater in 3rd world countries" argument is
1 Overbroad, it is true in some countries but by no means all,
2 May not apply to blind people ... How many significant pirates are
blind? Will pirates really concentrate on a product like this instead
of a mass market programme DVD whatever?

Even if it were correct, it would only cut revenues if there was a way
of getting the pirated copies from the 3rd world, into markets where
the company makes money currently, to undercut the price.

Your post also ignores the human rights dimention. For the blind,
computing is a human right these days.

Do you really think that copyright law is going to continue in its
current form? When you look at torrents etc., I say the writing is on
the wall.

Will there be copyright in the future? Yes but it will be
significantly different and more permissive.

Finally, does your moral outrage extend only to me or would you
support a petition re the 3rd world, aimed at FS?

If not, then I think you're focusing on the symptem and not on the disease.

On 2/4/12, Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@kutakrock.com> wrote:
Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it
is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in
price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay
the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can
pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I
could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose
of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to
discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that
tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for
arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to
sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very
list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly,
that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries
than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one
legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal
copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of
the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above
actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its
paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd
world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it
costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for
them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish
to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program
easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who
develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
#############################################################################################################
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipient(s) above and may contain information
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Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Richard Holloway
 

Thanks, I agree with your position too with just a slight twist-- surely there are vastly more Windows and Apple users and the cost to develop is the key factor to divide out per license. I also suspect that support may be more complicated (costly per user) with JAWS, partly because there are so many fewer users such that more of the problems have to get solved by FS directly, as opposed to in forums like this-- just a gut feeing there.

The fact remains however that there is no real "Pepsi" to their "Coke" (maybe there is the odd "store brand" cola), and that always leaves more room for the one item I think you did leave from your list: profit margin.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:

Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development, etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.


Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Karen Hughes <khughes8@...>
 

I give my old c ds to my mother who makes covers for them and uses them for saving her tables from moisture getting on the table when yoou set a drink on them. Karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "deadcatbounce" <JAWS@ca.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


So a "crack" is a bootlegged copy of the original? I paid full price for mine years ago, but I do hae a question for people: Do you just toss the old versions of JAWS once you get the new one or do you keep them around? I've heard of people who send their old copies to Africa or other third-world countries or something like that. Is that a viable, or legal, option for old CD's that are just sitting around and which you haven't tossed yet?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7



Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of $1000 for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked or illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Re: firefox

Cristóbal
 

Am on 10 right now and it's fine. JFW 13.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Kimsan
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:50 AM
To: jfw
Subject: firefox

Hi,



Which version of ff are people using these days that work with jaws fairly
well?



Thanks.



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Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

Although it may be a little further down the course selection than 101, it is an accepted principle of economics that a firm which can discriminate in price will make more money than one which cannot.
Those who can pay more are charged more. Those who otherwise couldn't pay the high price, pay less. So, the firm makes more money on those who can pay and makes incremental revenue on those who otherwise wouldn't buy. I could demonstrate this geometrically, but that's a little beyond the purpose of this list.
The above principle would suggest that Freedom Scientific would be smart to discriminate in price.
There are, however, certain so-called externalities and assumptions that tend to undermine the price discrimination strategy for profit maximization.
First, for price discrimination to work, there can be no possibility for arbitrage, e.g., ability for the buyers in the low-price jurisdiction to sell into the high price jurisdiction in competition with the firm.
Second, this assumes equal background regimes. The discussion on this very list points out the problem. It is generally believed, rightly or wrongly, that regard for copyright rules and laws is less in third world countries than is the case here. So, firms often believe that for every one legitimate copy of a product sold into a third world country, ten illegal copies will be made. So, the price is adjusted accordingly. The effect of the piracy is to increase the price ten times (over simplified).
I'm not making this up. I'm a tech lawyer, and I've heard all the above actually articulated.
So, unfortunately, that's the way it is.
As much as you would like to help the puppy by extracting the thorn from its paw, it is still likely to bite your hand while you are in the process.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:42 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Simple Economics 101 Was: Cracked

So you're really saying that you would rather starve than steal food?

You're "simple economics" is a little over simplified.

What it doesn't take account of is the opportunity cost.

There are many people, in the world (perhaps not in the US) who can't
afford to buy this.

Not people who won't pay, people who genuinely can't pay.

Now, JAWS developers make nothing from those people. Why? Well because
they can't pay.

However, the current pricing structure means that those people don't
have access to a computer, in real terms.

Computing may or may not be a human right for the general community. I
say that computer access very definitely is a human right for the
blind.

Without it, our interactions with the outside world are severely restricted.

Why won't FS offer reduced price versions of the programme in say the 3rd world?

Their failure to do so make's the lives of milions of blind people poorer.



On 2/4/12, cecropia64 <cecropia64@att.net> wrote:
good point. i still don't like some of this stuff, but i certainly do
get it.

On 2/4/2012 12:12 PM, Farfar and His Beamer wrote:
Richard,

I like your style.

To amplify what I believe cecropia64 was saying: The price charged for a
product is based on what it cost to develop, what it costs to duplicate,
what it costs to support, what the employees earn in salary, what it costs
to rent the building, what the next version will need for development,
etc.;
all divided by the number of copies to be sold.

A rather large amount of investment for a fairly small (in Windows or
Apple
terms) user community. We are after all a niche community of users so a
large cost borne by a small group = high cost per copy. Simple economics.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway"<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I feel a perfect fool-- We paid full price, out of pocket. We had no
alternative source of funding, and we wanted JAWS available for our young
daughter to grow up with and learn about.

Silly me, it never crossed my mind to just steal a copy. I have the same
problem when shopping for food or clothes, I keep actually paying for them
as opposed to choosing the route of theft, which would clearly be much
more
practical for my family financially.

Maybe if you feel the need to steal software, posting that you support
(and
do) such things is not the most prudent idea? What seems really foolish to
me about all of this is that you can use a demo copy of the program easily
and legally for as long as you like (to my understanding) with free
upgrades
and all, but apparently the frequent restarting of the computer is too
inconvenient for you, so you therefore need to steal the product and brag
about it?

Oh, and if someone gets JAWS bought with appropriate funding, the product
is
still being paid for. The issue is that the company and PEOPLE who develop
and support the product also have to get paid for their efforts. At a
certain point, be it Freedom Scientific or Microsoft, if enough people
are
stealing their products they'll just stop developing and supporting them.

I'm funny about things myself, just like these companies-- if I don't get
paid for my work I run out of money and I go out of business.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Juan Pablo wrote:

Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message----- From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04,
2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack
For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.
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This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information
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Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

wogg le4 <woggle4@...>
 

I think NVDA is nearly there. I think it need's about another year.

My points re apple stand.

Would you still say you couldn't steal food if the alternative was
starving? Because for us computing and the freedom it gives us is a
civil right and a human right.

Maybe you think I'm wrong to try and get a crack. That's fair enough -
though am I really doing anything worse than the milions of people who
download movees, music etc. illegally?

(Truth is that copyright law is out of date, out of touch and on its way out.)

even if you do think I'm wrong, you should still agree with me that
something should be done re the 3rd world and Jaws.

Will people on this list start a petition? Or does your moral outrage
extend only to criticizing me for looking for a crack?

On 2/4/12, Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org> wrote:
It may cost them less than that. I think the product is overpriced, and I
highly object to charging for skipped upgrades or SMA's where no support was
ever offered for those versions. If that business model works, they should
be increasing the product cost of each new version to make new customers pay
for versions they never owned, right?

The problem with the system is there is no real competition on par with JAWS
and there probably won't be for a long time. Even a great new p roduct would
take forever to gain enough market share that it is a viable replacement in
the workplace.

If the Coke company wants to start charging $20 for a can of Coke, they can
do that, but as long as there is Pepsi and the odd RC Cola (or whatever)
Coke would loose a lot of money in the process of jacking up their prices.
That applies to most everything we buy. Cell phones got much cheaper in
recent years because (in part) there has been competition in the
marketplace. When you have no competition, you can pretty well set pricing
at will. Make no mistake about it, Freedom Scientific is not a non-proffit
organization.

Freedom could absolutely use some competition, at least from the consumers'
standpoint. It drives pricing down and product quality up. That however
doesn't mean that if Cokes (my personal favorite) go up to $20 apiece I can
justify stealing them because I think they are overpriced. That's where it
all breaks down for me.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 11:50 AM, cecropia64 wrote:

unfortunately, nobody said that greed doesn't have a whole lot to do with
all this, because it certainly does. also, do you really think jaws costs
a thousand bucks? i'll bet it costs freedome about a hundred and fifty to
twwo hundred to actually produce, if that. oh well, looks like there
isn't one answer that fits all.

On 2/4/2012 11:33 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
Just one thing else for interest sake now that you mention steeling
from software companies pockets. I know this is getting off topic but
end of last year sometime I read a study, they actually said if
Microsoft considerably drop their software prices for windows and
office, they'll actually make more of a profit than they currently do.
Because at the moment windows and office is the most pirated software
worldwide and if it's cheeper more people will buy it. If you think
about it most people pirate software because they can't afford it so
imagine how many more will buy windows if it was like $40 or $50, just
look at Apple's Lion OS, the upgrade cost people $30 for 10 machines
assentially $3 per computer.

On 2/4/12, Nickus de Vos<bigboy529@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't agree with piracy but agree that jaws and most other assistive
devices are crazally expensive. If you really can't aford jaws then
use NVDA, it's totally free and feeture wise it's rite up there with
jaws, in fact there's some semi accessible software which I can access
better with NVDA than with jaws. Something else somebody mentioned,
does it really cost $3800 to get a guide dog in the US? If I
understand rite, that's crazy. In South africa we pay about the
equivalent of $15 or $20 but then again for stuff like jaws we pay
about equivalent of $1500. We don't easally get government bersaries
for assistive devices but can claim assistive devices back from the
government through income tax but you must still have the cash to fork
out and then wait a year or more before you can claim it back.

On 2/4/12, Juan Pablo<jpculasso@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Adrian, let me know where I justified the piracy. Only I put on
the
table a thing that is not never mentioned here. As I wrote in my last
e-mail
leave away the "easy words"
I know that this topic turn very unconfortable. Sorry, but is a part of
your
reality. I promise you do not respond any future e-mail regarding that.

All the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:58 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

This is like saying that because some people get paid government
benefits,
tax cheating is a legitimate means of making things equal. I'm
surprised
anyone on this list would justify theft.

I'm sorry to extend an off-topic thread, but I can't let this kind of
thinking go unchallenged.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Juan Pablo
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:28 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Exactly, Gerald.

A lot of you have an original jaws installed cause of subsidied
agencies
by
the goverments.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of
$1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked
or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo"<jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list."<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The
Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

_______________________________________________
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Re: Donating JAWS

Dave...
 

Wogg,

I hesitate to dignify your rant with comments, and I'm only doing so to
direct my thought to other more considerate members of this list. I just
copied your statements (with all spellings intact)for a structure.

Do you really think there is sufficient work in making new versions of
jaws to justify the prices charged?
Yes. Software development employs people who earn a salary based on their
ability to write code.
What about people in 3rd world countries?
They also have those training and talent, and many are also employed in
the same capacity.
They may get their hands on an old computer ... but a thousand $ copy
of jaws? Keep on dreaming!!!
Never said they could or should without paying for it somehow. Piracy is
piracy, regardless of the motivation or economic status.
Anyone here use talks for a mobile phone? It does nearly everything
jaws does in simbion environment and costs something like $70 - free
with some particular phones.
Yes, I do. However it in no way approaches the capabilities of JAWS. The
two operating systems are so different in complexity that they don't bear
direct comparison; therefore Talks and JAWS also don't bear direct
comparison.
Do you really think Apple would have developed screen readers for
their devices if it cost that much?
Yes I do, and they did. They have built in the cost to the actual product
and operating system, which are established to be much higher than Windows
and PC hardware. You pay up front with Apple.
What about NVDA?
Yes, it exists I understand it is very good..
Face facts friends, you've been and continue to be gouged!!!
An opinion -- only I can know if I'm being gouged.
Gouged by freedom scientific, who's pricing structure denies a
necessary freedom to litterally thousands, if not milions of blind
people around the world ... I doubt there are many MACs floating
around the 3rd world, it's all windows machines.
Macs are expensive. JAWS is expensive. Agencies and charitable
organizations exist to help those in need.
NVDA will change that.
Perhaps true.
Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "wogg le4" <woggle4@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 09:33
Subject: Re: Donating JAWS


Jaws is only within the reach for a small minority of blind people who
can either fund it themselves or can get some sort of Government
agency to fund it for them.

Is that right?

Do you really think there is sufficient work in making new versions of
jaws to justify the prices charged?

What about people in 3rd world countries?

They may get their hands on an old computer ... but a thousand $ copy
of jaws? Keep on dreaming!!!

Anyone here use talks for a mobile phone? It does nearly everything
jaws does in simbion environment and costs something like $70 - free
with some particular phones.

Do you really think Apple would have developed screen readers for
their devices if it cost that much?

What about NVDA?

Face facts friends, you've been and continue to be gouged!!!

Gouged by freedom scientific, who's pricing structure denies a
necessary freedom to litterally thousands, if not milions of blind
people around the world ... I doubt there are many MACs floating
around the 3rd world, it's all windows machines.

NVDA will change that.


On 2/4/12, Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@gmail.com> wrote:
I could be wrong but if you give away or sell your old licence, don't
you also lose your current licence? Said I could be wrong but as I had
it all along is if you let's say had jaws 10 and now baught jaws 13,
you just paid to extend that same licence to jaws 13 but with your one
licence you can now use jaws 13 and still use jaws 10 and maybe also
jaws 11 and 12 in between. Think you keep your original licence all
along they just enable the versions of jaws as you pay and give you a
activation code.

On 2/4/12, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur@gmail.com> wrote:
How much does it cost to do this? RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar and His Beamer" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: Donating JAWS


DeadCatBounce,

No, Sending JAWS to third world countries does no good. They need your
license to run it. Are you willing to donate your license as well? If so
you'll need to specify the new owner and contact Freedom Scientific to
have
them formally transfer the license.

Dave Carlson
Sent from somewhere in the Western United States, using a Dell Latitude
E6520 and Windows 7


----- Original Message -----
From: "deadcatbounce" <JAWS@ca.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 08:01
Subject: [Bulk] Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


So a "crack" is a bootlegged copy of the original? I paid full price
for
mine years ago, but I do hae a question for people: Do you just toss
the
old versions of JAWS once you get the new one or do you keep them
around?
I've heard of people who send their old copies to Africa or other
third-world countries or something like that. Is that a viable, or
legal,
option for old CD's that are just sitting around and which you haven't
tossed yet?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7



Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of
$1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked
or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The
Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so
out
of reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants
short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of
you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who
try
to do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Richard Holloway
 

Well now, wouldn't that have been unnecessarily simple... (LOL) Point taken.

On Feb 4, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:

Agree with you, we might as well go steel our food and furniture. But
my point still stands to the person who started this subject, just use
NVDA.


Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Richard Holloway
 

Agreed, and I'm a big iPad user.

Apple is another one like FS which has a product with the iPad with no real competition (some would disagree I realize). My take is Apple has the real smooth solution and until someone catches up, they will be charging a real premium price.

I choose the iPad and JAWS because they meet my needs, and I have to pay the price for it. If I have a problem with that, I need to stop buying such things in the future (or refuse to buy if I never owned them)

On Feb 4, 2012, at 11:57 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:


It is kind of ironic that the people who most complain about the high cost of JAWS and its SMA's are the same ones who wouldn't hesitate to rush out and spend hundreds of dollars for the latest IPad or IPhone, plus $50 or more per month for service. They moan and whine about FS's high prices but are perfectly willing to throw money at Apple. What's wrong with this picture?

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Nickus de Vos" <bigboy529@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


I don't agree with piracy but agree that jaws and most other assistive
devices are crazally expensive. If you really can't aford jaws then
use NVDA, it's totally free and feeture wise it's rite up there with
jaws, in fact there's some semi accessible software which I can access
better with NVDA than with jaws. Something else somebody mentioned,
does it really cost $3800 to get a guide dog in the US? If I
understand rite, that's crazy. In South africa we pay about the
equivalent of $15 or $20 but then again for stuff like jaws we pay
about equivalent of $1500. We don't easally get government bersaries
for assistive devices but can claim assistive devices back from the
government through income tax but you must still have the cash to fork
out and then wait a year or more before you can claim it back.

On 2/4/12, Juan Pablo <jpculasso@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, Adrian, let me know where I justified the piracy. Only I put on the
table a thing that is not never mentioned here. As I wrote in my last e-mail
leave away the "easy words"
I know that this topic turn very unconfortable. Sorry, but is a part of your
reality. I promise you do not respond any future e-mail regarding that.

All the best.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:58 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

This is like saying that because some people get paid government benefits,
tax cheating is a legitimate means of making things equal. I'm surprised
anyone on this list would justify theft.

I'm sorry to extend an off-topic thread, but I can't let this kind of
thinking go unchallenged.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Juan Pablo
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:28 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Exactly, Gerald.

A lot of you have an original jaws installed cause of subsidied agencies by
the goverments.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:23 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Are you suggesting that some of us paid less than the full price of $1000
for JAWS? The only way this would be possible without buying a cracked or
illegal copy would be to have it purchased for us by a rehab agency.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7


Really guys, How many of you paied the full price of jaws?

-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:53 PM To: The Jaws
for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7
yes, i agreefully. besides, this is why prices of this stuff is so out of
reach for many. because of slimy people like this guy who wants short
cuts instead of doing things the correct way. thanks pal to all of you
who try similar things it's really apppreciated by those of us who try to
do things the honest way!

On 2/4/2012 8:52 AM, George B wrote:
this is not the place for this kind of thing

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-
jdh.com] On Behalf Of wogg le4
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 14:49
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Crack For Jaws 64 Bit Win 7

Hi all,

can anyone tell me of a working crack for win 7 64 bit?

email me off list!!!

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